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Why doesn't anyone make an original Quad clone?

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Posted on February 6, 2016 at 11:36:51
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 Boggles my mind that as unique and intrinsically 'right' as this speaker is that no one is making a modern version.

It's over half a century old, so patents don't matter.

What we know about manufacturing now you'd think we could make a chassis that is much easier to produce and work with (no more f*cking staples and wood screws).

You can buy new, 15 ohm LS3/5a's made with real KEF drivers in 2016. But after all this time no one has made a new Quad 57. Bummer.




'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

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RE: Why doesn't anyone make an original Quad clone?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 14:44:16
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 4614
Joined: March 26, 2001
 Market demand and cost.

They made ~56,000 of these things so there are lots out there.

If one was to make them again retail would probably need to be around $10K. Now of course I think they would still be a steal at $10K but would the market look at it that way?

Quad Germany produces an all new version of the speaker. Not really like the original but kind of close. How many of them have they sold?

 

RE: Why doesn't anyone make an original Quad clone?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 15:17:50
j beede
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: NorCal
Joined: March 28, 2011
 I don't know of anyone who makes a clone QUAD ESL but Herr Stein at QUAD Musikwiedergabe GmbH in Germany builds the real deal. They are built using the original fixtures from QUAD in Huntingdon. As of last fall a freshly minted pair of ESL "57" in black, white, or bronze have an MSRP of about $5500. They sell new parts and components as well ($$$).

I am undecided about buying a new set of grills from them as they are shipped "flat" with some user assembly (folding the sides and bottom plus curving the top) required. If anyone has experience with this I'd like to hear about it.

 

You were almost the factory repair center for them, posted on February 6, 2016 at 15:32:07
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 Must be about eight years ago they asked if I wanted to be their importer.

I spent about three weeks working on marketing plans and asked if you would be willing to do any warranty work.

Then they told me they wouldn't do it unless I became a refurbisher, which was crazy. No way I could compete with you or Wayne, I don't know the first thing about refurbing Quads.

I've come to believe they weren't capable of any real production - maybe one pair a month, maybe. Which really doesn't make it worthwhile.






'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: You were almost the factory repair center for them, posted on February 6, 2016 at 15:44:46
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 4614
Joined: March 26, 2001
 Yes I remember our conversation.

That is the problem if one is to make all new versions of the speakers how many are going to sell? I remember asking how many of the new versions had the Germans sold and I could never get an answer which leads me to believe not many.

If they were shipping boat loads out the door I would imagine they would have been happy to give us those numbers.

I have had several Quad dealers in the last few years ask me to start refurbing them and making them available for retail dealers. I am all in for that but I am still going to need $5.5K for a pair which means street price is going to be north of $9K. Dealers typically want 40-45 points in speakers.

 

RE: Why doesn't anyone make an original Quad clone?, posted on February 6, 2016 at 17:56:25
AJ
Audiophile

Posts: 532
Joined: February 24, 2001



Hi there,

I never really wondered why they could not be put back into production.

Not in North America anyway, far too labour intensive. I'm not sure anyone could master the transformers either. If they were taken on in Asia then possibly... however they wouldn't be ESLs then would they?

They certainly can be found easily enough and Kent and Piquet do great work. I can't say enough about Wayne's work where I have had my only experience with American refurbishment.

I've tried the German panels and the English panels and didn't care for either.

To J beede,

I have purchased the new screens from Germany and they are just like the original construction the finish on mine are glossier.. my understanding now is that it is exactly like the original. the folding and bending is ok and manageable if you take your time .... especially if you have the old grilles as a template. Being handy certainly does not hurt. I re-furbed 2 pair ... the ones with the new screens pics attached. I am pretty sure I ordered a second set of screens as I was going to do 2 pair for stacking with screens . It never really happened as I liked them non stacked... they screens are somewhere with boxes of quad parts . I 've moved too many times to remember where everything is!

I have another very late model pair in a state of disassembly from the original owner who was going to do some work on them and never got to it... I'll have to tackle them some day as well they've been sitting for a few years.

Too many electrostatics, I've got the esls, USA monitors and Beveridges in the house now. I will thin the herd one day.


 

from a business standpoint, posted on February 7, 2016 at 07:48:32
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 You would need to convince your investors that your legal advisers have given you the green light and assured you no patent issues will arise (remember this is a British company not U.S.).
Assuming this passes the first hurdle, setting up, buying the materials, equipment, employing engineers, and a team etc., you're looking at dropping at least a couple million just from the outset.

However- I'm pretty sure Quad, a company that's essentially a National treasure in Great Britain, wouldn't take this lying down and would file so many lawsuits against you (regardless if it's legal or not) you'd end up folding from bankruptcy before your first product ever saw the light of day. In this regard you would need at least a million in the 'war chest' in case such a scenario does arise.

Ok, let's say you're in China (who as we speak makes vintage Marantz clones -which btw aren't looked upon very favorably) or Korea and you're going to do this on the 'grey market'. You'd still have to employ a team, train them, and convince Americans the product is just as good as the original enough to buy it.

Which brings us to the next question- re-creating a vintage product raises a lot of concerns from a consumer's vantage point:

-does this product use authentic parts or 'cloned' inferior parts?
-if this product is considered the best, are all the subsequent series 'inferior?'
-what price point would you offer this product? too low and you're telling the world it's a cheap product, too high you'll have to pass a gluten of hurdles including trade show auditions, printed reviews etc.,.

We all know the original Ford Mustang is a classic but re-creating one in today's market would limit it's production to a "limited edition" series aimed at a collectors market. I won't even begin to think what they'd offer for such a product.

However there are exceptions-Apogee speakers live in near-perfect reproduction with Analysis audio, and have been around for some time now.











 

RE: Why doesn't anyone make an original Quad clone?, posted on February 7, 2016 at 08:25:12
j beede
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: NorCal
Joined: March 28, 2011
 When you consider what people are willing to pay for a new pair of LS3/5A (a fun but seriously flawed speaker) or 2-ways from Sonus Faber or Wilson I would think that a new pair of QUAD ESL reproductions would be an easy sell at $10,000.

Those who have spent time inside vintage QUADs or who have built ESL panels from scratch can tell you that the staples and wood screws are not the worst of it. At times I am simply amazed that these speakers work at all--given the irregular engineering and shoddy worksmanship. That said, for me (and a not insignificant number of music fans) there (virtually) is no substitute. As the OP said they just sound right.

 

RE: Why doesn't anyone make an original Quad clone?, posted on February 7, 2016 at 09:11:38
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 4614
Joined: March 26, 2001
 I have taken original Quads to several shows in the last couple of years. The reactions and looks of amazement are a blast.

The comments are generally uniform when it comes to pricing. They just heard XYZ speaker down the hall that was $15K, $20K, etc. and the Quad just destroyed them. The price of the Quad is cheap by comparison!

The typical comments are I just dispelled every myth they have heard about the speakers. Yes they play plenty loud, have lots of bottom end. I had a guy in my room at CAF several years and he got very mad he was totally convinced we were hiding a sub somewhere in the room no way a Quad could produce that kind of bottom end. Last year at CAF my room was about 20' X 24' and someone told me they thought the room was too small for the speakers!!

 

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