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Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?

82.70.7.156
Posted on February 4, 2016 at 16:02:15
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015



Hi All,

I've owned a pair of MG12s for 10 years now and they've been my main speakers the whole time. I also have a pair of MMGs as surrounds.

I've now got a chance to buy a 3 year old used pair of 1.7s for £1500. In the UK, the retail price of the 1.7i (not the 1.7) is £2690. If I did buy the 1.7s I'd move the MG12s to surround duty and sell the MMGs for around £500.

However my 12s have upgraded crossovers and custom stands that both made big improvements to the stock sound. In the last few months I've upgraded my other components and gained even more from the 12s. Music sounded "real" for the first time. And I still have the possibility of trying out bi-amping, which may move them up another level again.

When I say the 12s sound good, I really don't have much of a reference point, having experienced very few other systems / setups other than my own. I've been doing a lot of reading and of course opinions vary from some saying the 1.7s are a large step up, with others saying modded MMGs or 12s would not be that far behind.

So do I invest an extra £1000 (£1500 less £500 resale of the MMGs), in the hope that the 1.7s will be clearly better than my improved 12s? I don't believe home auditioning is an option here (plus I don't want to pretend I'm interested in a new pair), and showroom auditioning is a non-starter IMO as it can never recreate my home setup.

Additional info:

Room is small, don't have exact dimensions but I'm attaching a photo to give an idea. In particular, the roof is low, only about 6.5'. I've attached black foam-like insulating panels to it (primarily as insulation and for aesthetics), but I can't say if they make any acoustical difference. The side walls are longer than the back wall thats visible, probably by about 50%.

The upgraded components I mentioned are Electrocompaniet gear, the EMC 1UP CD player, ECI5 as pre and an AW250R for power. It was the AW250R that made instruments suddenly have a wonderful realness to them.

Any opinions much appreciated!

 

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RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 4, 2016 at 16:08:52
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015



The photo of the room is several years old so doesn't show the Electro gear, but the speakers are in roughly the same place.

Here's a photo of the upgraded crossovers. It was so many years ago I built them I really couldn't tell you what the brands etc are.

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 4, 2016 at 16:15:28
ejman
Audiophile

Posts: 403
Location: SW Oregon
Joined: October 3, 2006
 If it turns out that the 1.7's are not a significant improvement over you modded 1.2's can you turn around and sell them for roughly what you paid for them? If so, there you be.

I have the 1.7's (not the i's) and like them but they do have a different sound from my MMG's - a lighter, more detailed presentation than the MMG's and a much bigger soundstage. No idea how they compare to the 1.2's

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 4, 2016 at 16:52:21
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 True, I meant to mention that I have the resale option if I'm not happy with them. But I'd rather not go through the whole buying, re-selling and twice rearranging the room thing if people think the chances are high that I won't get £1000 of benefit..

Also it would be a 5 hour round trip to collect the 1.7s

 

generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 4, 2016 at 19:48:36
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 Hard to say w/o knowing the room size...even a set MMGs would give the biggest Maggies a run for their money in a small type room IMO.











 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 4, 2016 at 20:41:39
j beede
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: NorCal
Joined: March 28, 2011
 I wonder how many pairs of QUAD ESLs you could buy for 1500 quid? I'd stack them from floor to ceiling if I lived in Swindon.

 

RE: generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 5, 2016 at 02:49:24
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 I'll measure the room when I get home from work today.. I know the 1.7s would fit, but 3.x models probably wouldn't.

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 5, 2016 at 02:52:10
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 j beede - could you possibly point me to a good thread where the benefits of Quads over Maggies are clearly explained? Is there any sort of consensus that Quads are better?

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 5, 2016 at 12:38:36
j beede
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: NorCal
Joined: March 28, 2011
 Nick-N,
Interesting question. I have never evaluated a speaker by reading about it. I own QUAD ESLs and QUAD 11L2s and multiple sets of Magneplanars. In my opinion there is no doubt which comes closest to producing the original sound. Understandably, not every is satisfied with the original sound. For example, I would not recommend QUAD ESLs for home theater--though a stack of healthy ESLs would handle this task with aplomb in my opinion.

FYI: I just (temporarily) replaced my QUADs in listening room #2 with a pair of Martin Logan hybrids. The difference was startling in terms of lost detail and exaggerated output at both extremes. I was surprised by this and am motivated to restore the ESL's to their rightful place.

I find that my SMGa (wire tweeter) and MMGs (foil tweeter) have a similar spectral range as the ESLs but with less detail, more bass output, and just slightly restricted low frequency range in comparison. Both are very pleasant to listen to. I do not pad the tweeter in the MMGs. The MG-1.6QR were unbearable without tweeter padding. I must say it is the loudest playing loudspeaker I have ever owned. I believe this is there key salient feature. If I had a home theater (I do not) the 1.6QR would have been assigned there. They are gone now. I also own STAX "earspeakers" for occasional late night listening and they sound more like the QUADs and SMGa in terms of spectral balance and high frequency reproduction.

I gave up on the QUADs 30 years ago... I returned to them last year and have enjoyed hearing the music I have acquired in the interim in a whole new way. I would think you could find a pair in decent nick for 200-300 pounds? Not much to lose!






 

RE: generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 5, 2016 at 15:19:59
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 Room is only 10' by 12.5', with the ceiling only 6' ! Speakers are on the 10' wall. All walls are curtained etc and floor rugged, so reflections are not too noticeable.

It's an extension that I believe was kept low to avoid needing planning permission, and used to be a kids playroom. But atleast it's a room I can dedicate completely to audio!

 

RE: generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 7, 2016 at 15:01:00
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 1.7s would fit, but barely, and you wouldn't get the maximum from them. The 3 series would be a mistake, I think, in a room this small.

 

RE: generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 7, 2016 at 16:28:36
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 Thanks for the opinions. I think I will resist the urge for the 1.7s.

ESL57s wouldn't fit in my room either, but I'm keen to try them one day.

Someone else posted that the electrolytic caps in my bass panel crossovers should be replaced (not sure why the post disappeared).. are there any brands of film cap that are particularly popular here for maggies? And should a shunt cap be used?

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 7, 2016 at 20:07:57
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 1.7s would actually be smaller than the 12s you have mounted.

A room that size I'd consider the Mini Maggie. I saw one used online for $900 recently but at that price I'm sure it's gone.

If you go through Magnepan I 'think' they offer a home trial period. Win/win in my opinion. They shipping to return them would be minimum.









 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 7, 2016 at 23:33:44
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Downside of the 1.7 is you must open 'er up to biamp. No multiple terminals as on the 1.6 to facilitate same.
But TRUE line level crossover biamping requires 'going in'.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 8, 2016 at 04:23:51
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 From listening to the 12s over the weekend, I really don't *need* to upgrade at the moment. They sound superb, filling up the room with a powerful and lifelike sound. Since adding the Electrocompaniet power amp and CD player which took the sound to a new level I've only listened to a fraction of my CD collection - I should just keep enjoying the improvement for a while.

With the Electrocompaniet gear and and the 12s being solidly mounted, I am perfectly happy listening without my sub, I never thought they could give so much weight to the low end.

I can't do the Maggie free trial, being in the UK.

What do others think about the big 10 year old electrolytic cap in my crossover, should I replace it with a film cap with a better tolerance?

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 8, 2016 at 07:39:02
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 Some think the MG12 was one of the best speakers they ever made.
In my experience, cap changes (upgrades) are almost always worthwhile no matter what type of equipment. Like rolling better tubes in an amp. I would upgrade your MG12s and enjoy for another decade (at least).

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 8, 2016 at 08:22:50
ejman
Audiophile

Posts: 403
Location: SW Oregon
Joined: October 3, 2006
 Nick, just let go of the audiophilia nervosa bug will you? Sounds to me like you got a wonderful system that you truly enjoy. Just sit down and enjoy it! let the AN demons go perch on somebody else's shoulder for a while...

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 8, 2016 at 16:48:50
Nick-N
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Swindon UK
Joined: January 4, 2015
 After 10 years with the same speakers I think I'm allowed to cast my eye around :P

But the system is sounding superb, even better after a cable upgrade today, so not thinking about new speakers anymore.

 

RE: generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 8, 2016 at 19:21:27
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Re Quads. They fit in the room though they are wider. They are dynamically more limited than either the 12 or the 1.7. My first audiophile experience was in that size room with ESL57 and MAC tubes.

If you did a good job on your mods to the MG12 and swapped crossover caps then the 1.7 is not going to be a great upgrade. But it will be noticeable, particularly at the bottom end..The foil supertweeter will give you better detail, and the whole speaker is regarded as more coherent.

 

RE: generally the unspoken rule for Maggies is: get the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room, posted on February 9, 2016 at 11:06:42
Norman M
 Perhaps if you were to modify that to read 'the biggest Maggie that'll fit the room AND which has the true metal ribbon', one might end-up Maggieless. It's that ribbon which separates the men from the boys!

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 15, 2016 at 02:43:36
jazzbeat
Audiophile

Posts: 293
Location: Kansas city,MO
Joined: February 18, 2004
 Have to wonder what other options exist aside from the 1.7. I have been considering such and upgrade however now thinking as to other companies products as well. There used to be an Australian firm which made standard ribbon speakers matched with a bass cone driver for years and also the greek firm which made modern versions of the Apogee. I owned some low end Apogees ( Calipers) and while with out some faults in some ways were far superior to the Magnepan...



Cheers.

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 15, 2016 at 06:36:56
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 Want something different? Try a full range electrostatic. Lots of Acoustats floating around at around $1k with panels in good shape. A few bucks on the interfaces and your ready to go. Pretty much all the older Quads have reach the end of their panel life and require a major rebuild. Same with most Apogees. The Model 2 or Spectra 2/22/2200 are just slightly bigger than a 1.7. The fit fine in my 12X15 room.
I have heard Maggies many times. I much prefer electros, but that's just me.
If you risk a grand or so on Acoustats and don't like them (highly doubtful) you can always get your money back.
Of course if you got money burning a hole in your pocket, there are lots of great new planars out there to try at nose bleed prices.

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 15, 2016 at 12:28:56
j beede
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: NorCal
Joined: March 28, 2011
 Regarding QUADs... true enough at 40-50 years of age they probably need panel and power supply rebuilds. The good news is that they are rebuildable.

I have owned multiple pairs of Acoustats and QUADs (and Magneplanars and Martin-Logans) I can say that the QUAD ESLs rarely fail to amaze (playing music). If your speakers see duty in a home theater system or your listening habits include playing audiophile fragments of tracks the QUADs may disappoint.

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 15, 2016 at 18:35:24
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Eminent Technology LFT VIIIB hybrids, Martin Logan Hybrids like the Theos (you can even order it at Walmart).The recent models are much better integrated than in the past. The prior generation should be a good value on the used market and there are sizes to fit a small room, like the electromotion model.

There are also these from down under http://ambiencespeakers.com.au/reference-series/

And there is Graz' Synergy model which is too big for your room and very expensive http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/synergy1_5_specs.html

A non-dipole to consider is the Golden Ear product line with AMT tweeters (about similar in performance - derived from the Heil AMT).

Another - with high sensitivity is the Coincident Victory and Total Victory with ribbon tweeters.

The Raidho tweeter speakers are very expensive but review very well.

Obviously anAcoustat 1+1 or Spectra 22 or 2200 are trim and fit well into the room, Terrific performance.

The BG Radia hybrid planar dipole speakers, particularly the tall 72 and the one model belowfifty something. .

 

RE: Quick opinions wanted - to upgrade my maggies or not?, posted on February 15, 2016 at 18:45:16
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Haha - and if you like to hear the music which exists outside the 100-12KHz bandwidth of the 57s / 63s.


Andy

 

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