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my god; much respect for these Emotivas

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Posted on January 26, 2016 at 18:08:34
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
My day off today so I pulled my VTL 100s out of my lineup and placed a pair of UPA-1s in their place. Although I've owned the Emotiva UPA-1 (400w mono)for exactly a year and 1 week, this is the first time I've ran em through my 20s.

A great, great matchup with the XPA-1s on the bottom bass panels. The UPA-1s run the mid/tweeter sections. All four amps are fed out of a Marchand XM44 XO. Regarding the Marchand -I was initially concern about gain match up with the XPA-1s, and although it has independent gain controls, I found no need to make any adjustments. This combination is highly recommended IMHO for anyone starting a bi-amp system without having to take out a 2nd mortgage.

The UPA-1s keep up with the XPAs (hell -even quicker) with headroom to spare. In fact I had the system up and cruising along at 85db (that's up thar) without any signs of strain or exhaustion. The VTLs in all it's glory were also quick; but not this quick. The UPA-1s (btw-they're no longer manufactured)are more precise, and 'wrap around' the instruments a bit better. I was expecting sand-harshness but none forthcoming at this point. I'm currently listening to Pat Methany's cd "Question and answer" and his guitar notes simply dance in the air while the great Roy Haynes shreds his drum kit away.

In all fairness we are talking about 400 raw, high current wattage vs 100 tube watts (which btw also never once sounded strained) so it's not quite a fair comparison. I can only imagine what a Manley 400 watt tube would do in this setup.

On my next day off I'll try and make time to take a look at the VTL and see what's going on with her. In the meantime the Emotivas are fine where they are ;) .















 

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RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 27, 2016 at 00:48:23
Audiophilander
Audiophile

Posts: 30200
Location: Fort Worth (D/FW Metroplex)
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I believe the Emotiva UPA-1 monos put out something along the lines of 350 wpc into 4 Ohm loads (unless the specs have changed or they've been modified), but that's plenty of current drive to juice MG20s since they're bi-amped. I bet this combination sounds great!

Nice room decor too, BTW.

Cheers,
AuPh

 

Glad to hear you're back in business!, posted on January 27, 2016 at 08:12:07
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37609
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Did you check the B+ fuse on the amp? It's the large one just to the right of the power cord.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 27, 2016 at 11:33:03
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 I have a pair of XPA-1s and a pair of the amps that replaced the UPA-1 (the XPA-100). They certainly have the power and the quickness needed to drive either of my three series.

My issue with them compared to substantially higher priced amps I have auditioned is a slight glare in the crossover area which is most obvious in higher pitched female vocals when played at higher volume. An example is Rickie Lee Jones' vocals from her first album or Pop Pop. Once I heard how good some other amps were in comparison, it is hard now for me to ignore it (the outrageously more expensive PS audio BHK 300s had no glare at all for example)

I wish I could get the power and price of the Emotiva without the glare. I can reduce it a bit with the treble resistors, and excessive toe in, but again, I am just getting tradeoffs.

I realize the glare issue only applies to my system (source is the not at all euphonic Benchmark DAC2 HGc) and it only applies to my room and my ears, but i would be interested in any other ideas in how to address it.

Thoughts?

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 27, 2016 at 14:22:15
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 I conquered the glare to a large degree by using the inductor trick. Which somehow extends the bass and middle. There is still some harshness with 'mixed voices'. The Emotiva XPA1's are trifle forward with the Mag 1.7; but do create a magical sound stage on many cd's; since many of the cd's do sound miraculous with occasional lapses I am hardly sure it is the amp. Without the inductors I had a tough time adjusting to vocal music.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 28, 2016 at 07:49:33
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 Is the inductor trick easy to perform on 3.7i,s?

 

Perhaps a tube stage , posted on January 28, 2016 at 09:50:52
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 to make the sound prettier and more dimensional and take the glare out. Offers adjustable euphonics.

http://www.dagogo.com/eastern-electric-minimax-bba-preamplifier-review

Of course there are fixed voltage tube buffers from Yaqin and musical Fidelity.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 28, 2016 at 10:40:22
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Hi: There is Asylum section on inductors. The late Al Selaka(forgive my spelling) was the dean of this stuff. He used two sets on the 3.6. They will work but there is only room for one set on th 3.7i, which tamed compared to the latter.. One set was 5502 and the other the one I am using, about double the size, is 5522. .People on the site used the latter for the bass and mid. I would start there. Very inexpensive , less than $6 a set. In my case, as I used a solid state preamp it turned my system around.I think the Emotiva are very solid on the bottom, as I play a lot of organ records and they make a thrilling presentation with depth and power. Only amp I considered in the price range was the Odyssey. Can 't have everything. I think you have chose wisely both with speaker and amp on any opportunity cost basis. UT
The site filled with people much more knowlegable than me on this and all other matters.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 28, 2016 at 17:58:17
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 A bit more Class-a Bias would help with the glare ....

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 28, 2016 at 18:39:24
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Good idea

You can probably install quiet fans inside or on the heat sinks and run up the bias to 25 watts or more and that should help with glare at reasonable volumes, hopefully you would not notice the transition from A to AB too easily

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 28, 2016 at 19:07:49
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Forgot to add{ installing the inductors are very easy. You just replace the metal bar(exactly as when you installed the resistors.) but make sure they fill the entire hole so that they are secure.

 

fuse still intact, tested good , posted on January 28, 2016 at 19:21:55
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 thanks for the tip. Will look into it more in depth when I have the time.









 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 28, 2016 at 21:00:25
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Unless I am missing something in the XPA1's here are no such options. There may be in the second generation version which claim Class A and Ab power.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 29, 2016 at 07:15:11
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 There is a bias pot inside and the fan installation should be done by a pro. The point is that given convective cooling the amp has enough cooling capacity to handle operation well into class A as opposed to a couple of watts as it comes out the factory.

I have played with bias for every SS amp I used on the midrange. I have yet to come across one that didn't sound better with higher bias despite the fan noise and vibration.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 29, 2016 at 09:46:35
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 The Amt of class-A bias needed will be affected by speaker impedance mag/phase, fans as suggested are essential because its the most cost effective way to control heatsink temps with out a total revamp, there are also other factors involved that will limit how much you can actually increase the class-a operation by, but if you are driving loads below 8 ohms you will benefit from some increase in Class-A operation, absolutely knock some of that glare off.


Regards

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 29, 2016 at 13:21:45
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Hi: Can you be specific about what I should do? Purchase a small fan for each amp etc? Sorry. Do not quite understand. MAgneplaner 1.7 uses a 4 ohm load fairly consistently but can drop to 3 ohms. Thanks

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas , posted on January 29, 2016 at 16:29:03
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 You would need a fan for each amp and work out a way to have them blow over the heat sinks in a permanent arrangement. Then take the amp in to an electronics repair shop that does pro audio or audiophile equipment and have them raise the bias on the amps to 20 to 30 watts. Consult with them about how high you would want to go realistically. I prefer having the techs rig up the cooling.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 29, 2016 at 19:12:47
ejman
Audiophile

Posts: 403
Location: SW Oregon
Joined: October 3, 2006
 The UPA 1's were kind of an interesting step for Emotiva because the talk by the designer at the time they came out is that they were supposed to be the most "musical" 2 channel amps in their lineup (at that power level), as opposed to the XPA2 which had a more "home theatre " design goal. The UPA 1's used the same amp modules as in the XP series ( ie XP3,5,7) but with a lot more capacitance. They were rated at 350 watts@ 4 ohms vs 500 for the XPA 2 but the XPA 2 has a weird wiring scheme for its capacitor banks that resulted in only 40,000 mf for the whole amp vs 80,000 per side for the UPA 1.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on January 31, 2016 at 15:59:43
Norman M
 IMO your only problem is that you have nothing more to do because it really ain't going to get any better.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on February 1, 2016 at 14:14:39
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 Thanks, Utley

I remember that conversation now. I bought a set of 5520s for my IIIa's but didn't notice any improvement back then (I only used them an hour or two). I will try again with the 3.7i.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on February 1, 2016 at 14:28:12
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 You might find that a few small changes in room in the arrangement of furniture or wall hangings can also make a difference. I heard the 3.7 and the 3.7i and think the latter superb.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on February 4, 2016 at 09:40:16
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 Interesting that Emotiva no longer makes the UPA1's -pity.(not on their site)

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on February 4, 2016 at 09:50:48
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 They replaced the UPA-1 with the XPA -100, they then offered an upgrade of that in the XPA -1L which was class A. Not sure if they still sell the 1L. I don't see it on their web site.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on February 4, 2016 at 10:31:29
Utley1
Audiophile

Posts: 1609
Location: NYC
Joined: July 30, 2010
 One interesting thing about the XPA 1. I was told by Emotiva, as mono blocks they will not do well with complicated load impedance speakers . ex: Martin Logan, Apogee Scintilla etc. And they mentioned several other brands. I forgot their explanation as it was several years ago ( A double drop; in impedance)? They said it does not happen with their non-differential stereo amps? Thanks.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on February 4, 2016 at 12:33:02
mraudio
Audiophile

Posts: 459
Location: Northern Colorado
Joined: November 4, 2006
 I was in the high end business for 25 years and have owned hundreds of amps.

About 5 months ago, I bought a pair of the Emotiva XPA-1L mono class A amps. I must say they are effing AMAZING on my Maggie 3.6 speakers.

I am really smitten by these little babies. 250 watts at 8 ohms, 500 watts at 4 ohms and the first 35 watts are in Class A, (they have a switch on the front of the amp to choose either Class A or Class A/B).

Unfortunately, Emotiva just discontinued them, but I've seen a few pair on the used market.

HIGHLY recommended!!!

 

And they look great!, posted on February 11, 2016 at 06:41:05
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7724
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 Very classy & classic room you have there.

 

RE: And they look great!, posted on February 11, 2016 at 11:06:28
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 I am currently comparing a PS Audio BHK 250 to my Emotiva XPA1s. Hopefully I can switch back and forth for a few weeks of critical listening.

 

RE: And they look great!, posted on February 12, 2016 at 07:34:01
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Keep us posted on your observations.

Anything obvious as to their character so far?

 

RE: And they look great!, posted on February 12, 2016 at 08:35:21
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 I tested the BHK 300s last month and they were clearly smoother on the top in every way. If the PS Audio was romantic, the Emotiva was analytical. The low end was similar between the amps. I have no idea which is more truthful, but if forced to guess I would probably suggest it was the Emotiva. The one I would prefer to own if I had both laying around for free would be the 300, but I would probably have to lose the Maggie resistors and change the toe in to liven up the music a bit.

The BHK 250 initial impressions is that it is not as smooth or romantic as the 300, and possibly no "better" than the Emotiva. I have been listening to it now for several days and am not yet impressed. something in the system is off, and I am not sure what. This afternoon I will substitute the Emotiva XPA1s back in though and start to listen more critically.

I find critical listening is fatiguing (somewhat echoing your point elsewhere on A/B testing). I find that background listening often reveals things I block out when listening critically. Hopefully a picture will emerge out of the combined process over the next few weeks.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on May 4, 2016 at 08:03:31
dlynch34@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: FL
Joined: May 4, 2016
 I have 4 of these and LOVE them for my 3.7i's. Right now I keep them in the AB switch but may just move them over to the A switch as even there if the load becomes too great they will go into AB on their own.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on May 4, 2016 at 16:44:08
Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013
 Since this thread is alive again, I will comment on the difference between the PS Audio BHK 250 amp and a pair of first gen XPA-1 s. I switched back and forth between them for a month or two on my 3.7i's.

In my main listening room, I honestly could not tell them apart. This room is 20X14. I think the reflected sounds of the room dominated amplifier choice.

In my much larger secondary room (approx 16X40) the PS Audio BHK 250 sounded similar to the larger PS Audio BHK 300. The Emotiva amp was more analytical, the PS Aufio was smoother and less harsh in the upper Mids and lower treble. I never found either PS Audio harsh, but sometimes find the Emotiva to be so, especially on female vocals (Rickie Lee, early Joni, etc). On the other hand, the Emotiva ran much cooler, and handled the two ohm load of my optional DWMs with absolute ease (room temperature to the touch at highest listenable volume).

I preferred the much higher priced BHK 250 for its smoothness and musicality, but not enough to pay the $5-6k extra.

 

RE: my god; much respect for these Emotivas, posted on May 13, 2016 at 11:00:02
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Just in time for EMO to REALLY shake up their amp line.
XPA is up to GenIII and uses a 'modular' approach where you can buy anything from 2 to 7 channels of amp in ONE chassis.

The OTHER part of the shakeup is the EMERSA line, which uses B&O ASC modules.

The Hernia Inducing XPR-1 and XPA-1 are gone as is the well regarded XPA-5

A Stereo Integrated is planned and a few other goodies, as well.
Too much is never enough

 

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