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20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall

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Posted on August 18, 2015 at 13:12:25
StickMan451
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Location: South
Joined: September 23, 2009
 I am working on a new dedicated room design for a new house. This new room is going to be fairly large at, 21w x 29L x 11h. (My current room is 17.5w x 26L x 9h).

In my current room my 20.7's are approx 8ft from the Front wall (tweeter ribbons are on the outside, with outer side of the 20's angled towards the listening seat. So, outer edges are approx 8ft from Front wall, inner edges are approx 7ft from Front wall).

My question is, in the new larger room will I be able to move the 20's another foot or two further into the room? Will increasing the distance from the Front wall to about 10ft on the outside and about 9 feet on the inside edge work? Will this extra distance adversely effect the reinforcement I get from the Front wall? Will bass suffer? I am using two REL 328 Subs to great effect; these help widen/deepen the sound stage and provide that little extra amount of 'grunt', or impact in the bass and midbass that I feel helps move the 20.7's to the next level.


StickMan451

 

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Check out the thread "back to planars", posted on August 18, 2015 at 16:39:38
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
 Look in the HK/Limage set-up...they recommend minimum of 40% into the room and up to 60%...

Laying out your room Farfield 40% into the room would be 11.5ft...so in my opinion no problem...I would look at 12ft to 15' into the room...tweeters in and 2ft-5ftft off the side walls...

Check out this link...

Good Luck...
thanks
Mark

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 19, 2015 at 09:00:25
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Your new room is easy for the 20.7 but for bass loading.

The extra space the speakers and subs have to fill is likely going to require some tuning.

The bass from planars does not increase from proximity to the front wall as it does for box speakers so there is no ultimate limit.

You should be using the room on the short wall to give you as much distance from the front wall as possible. 12' is a good number for the short wall position.

Because of the large space your midbass impact may fall short of what you are used to.

If you want to fill that in with the subs you can probably do so at the cost of some bass definition and speed from the speaker.

You can try wall loading the speakers in the Limage setup with the speakers tweeters in and placed with the edges roughly 1' from the sidewalls. Adjusting the width of that slot will control how much bass you get from the speakers. The closer they are to the sidewall the stronger the bass.

If you do wall loading it falls apart with any significant toe in. So you want to have as much distance from the speaker as is practical - even if it takes you within 2' of the back wall so you can minimize toe in.

The most recent thread on the Limage placement Mark Man directed you to is going to help you optimize this placement approach.

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 20, 2015 at 07:11:45
Norman M
 17.5w x 26L x 9h vs. 21w x 29L x 11h?

I really wouldn't really expect one big hell of a difference. Relatively small differences between very much larger numbers, (and that sort of thing).

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 20, 2015 at 11:34:58
Mart
Bored Member

Posts: 31273
Location: upstate NY
Joined: June 6, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 25, 2000
 Also, FWIW, I, personally, like the distance behind the dipolar speakers (proposed 10ft) to the front wall be equal to that distance behind the listener(s) to the back wall. It mayn't be the deepest bass, but it sounds less room-effected to me.

Experiment for yourself with everything, & update us with your observational impressions.

... just my 2¢
♪ moderate Mart ♫

☺ Planar Asylum

where speakers are thin & music isn't

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 20, 2015 at 14:02:19
StickMan451
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Location: South
Joined: September 23, 2009
 So, that would be basically applying the rule of thirds.

Actually, the new room is Significantly Large when you look closely at the numbers, especially with regard to Total Volume. People often overlook that fact.

The Old Room is, 455 sq ft and 4,095 cu ft.

The new Room will be, 609 sq ft and 6,699 cu ft.

that's a 34% and 64% Increase is sq footage and total cu ft respectively...
StickMan451

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 20, 2015 at 15:31:11
Mart
Bored Member

Posts: 31273
Location: upstate NY
Joined: June 6, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 25, 2000
 Also, FWIW, I prefer the tow-in such that the edge is pointed near mid-sidewall. The 1st reflection point will be seeing the dipolar's maximum destructive interference from the recombination of propagating fore & aft sound waves, which are inverted/opposite/out-of-phase from each-other & equal (in theory). I.E.: The null (in theory). If the side wall had a mirror, the listener would see the Maggie edge-wise in the reflection.

Of course, this configuration is completely futile ... if the resulting toe-in then no longer reproduce a sonic image.


... just my 2¢

♪ moderate Mart ♫

☺ Planar Asylum

where speakers are thin & music isn't

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 20, 2015 at 22:22:08
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Cubic capacity and RATIO of lengths are more important than sheer 'square footage'.


Too much is never enough

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 20, 2015 at 23:45:50
Norman M
 In my admitedly limited experience based on having listened to my same Maggies in two different listening rooms, it didn't make a bit of a difference. Maybe I turned the gain up a little more in the larger room. This change in rooms took place some 20+ years ago so that I can't exactly recall details, but do remember how surprised I was. Whenever this subject comes up I think about how tempted I've always been to listen in open air, that is take them out onto the deck to hear how they might sound - somehow I think the often encountered phrase the speakers would 'disappear' would apply, but not in a good way.

 

RE: 20.7's Maximum Distance from Front Wall, posted on August 21, 2015 at 11:40:52
klao
Audiophile

Posts: 105
Location: Thailand
Joined: March 15, 2008
 My room is a bit smaller than your new room (19.5' x 27.9' 10.3'/12'), but my 20.7's are much closer to the front wall than your current setup.

The room was designed by Rives Audio (with Maggies in mind), and it seems their recommended placements of the speakers and listening position are quite close to the final setup I prefer.

Not sure if you'd be interested, but here is the detail anyway. : )

Main speakers' tweeters are on the inside & toed-in so that the speakers' inner & outer edges are about 1.69 m. (5'6.5") & 1.92 m. (6'3.5") from front wall. Left & right tweeters are approximately 2.9 m. (9'6") apart. Speakers' outer edges are 91.5 cm. (3') from side walls . Listening position of my ears is about 4.1 m. (13'5.5") from the speaker's plane and about 2.65 m. (9'8") from the back wall.



 

With my Soundlab stats, posted on August 21, 2015 at 19:56:26
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37650
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 I experimented greatly and determined the flattest overall response empircally via measurements. In my 26 x 15 room, the speakers are slightly over eight feet into the room - roughly thirds. With a small forest of bass traps behind them.

Similarly, the listening couch is about the same distance from the back wall.

 

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