Anyone using deffusion panels ?

I use Acoustic Revive RWL-3 diffusion panels. Originally got them for Quad 989s and now use them with MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESLs. They're on the expensive side and I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions out there. The major effects I've found in using them are a more well-defined soundstage and better low level detail/clarity.

Joe

Acoustic Revive RWL-3 Acoustic Conditioner

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 23, 2015 at 08:13:19
BobM Audiophile Posts: 1400 Location: Long Island, NY Joined: September 24, 1999	I built these (see attached). I've placed them on the front wall behind my Apogees. There was a noticeable improvement in depth of field. A gentleman is best defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion ... and doesn't.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 23, 2015 at 08:35:15
Utley1 Audiophile Posts: 1609 Location: NYC Joined: July 30, 2010	And also a great stick ball rack...Great idea.....

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 23, 2015 at 10:04:36
BigguyinATL Manufacturer Posts: 3475 Joined: April 10, 2002	I have a stereo equipment rack behind the Left and a CD/DVD rack behind the right. The speakers are toed enough so the rear faces the corner of the room. "The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius

I use Skylines for diffusion, posted on April 23, 2015 at 12:04:11
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37666 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	Better focus. Pics in my gallery.

RE: I use Skylines for diffusion, posted on April 23, 2015 at 12:28:13
Joe Appierto Audiophile Posts: 1051 Location: Central NJ Joined: January 3, 2004	What a totally beautiful system. The Sound-Labs must sound out of this world. Joe

RE: I use Skylines for diffusion, posted on April 23, 2015 at 13:11:41
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37666 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	Thanks! They are remarkably neutral and coherent across a pretty wide area with the 90 degree panels.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 23, 2015 at 17:52:02

johnvb
Audiophile

Posts: 495
Joined: October 26, 2011

Bought four 2 x 2 unfinished Styrofoam QRDs (1ds) from SRL Audio and mounted pairs of them in oak frames, supported by modified MMG Sound Anchor stands, with extra bracing and casters added. Use them on the front wall, at first behind MMGs and now my present non-maggie speakers. Even with the present monopoles, adds some depth to the sound stage. Worked great with the MMGs.

If you get the foam type like this, they have to be painted to be the most effective. Used bristle and foam brushes on these, that was fun. I got it down to 2 hours per coat per panel.

When I had the Maggies, I also experimented with polycylindrical diffusers, found they help at the first reflection points to expand the sound stage. With my current speakers, they were too much, now use absorption there.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 23, 2015 at 18:26:54

George6
Audiophile

Posts: 182
Joined: November 18, 2012

Using T'Fusors on wall behind 1.6 speakers.
Without these diffusors the soundstage was U-shaped, with certain instruments coming directly from the speakers, and central voices coming from the wall behind the speakers.
With the diffusors, the sound stage is wider, stretched evenly slightly behind the speakers. The voices and instruments are better defined, and the acoustics of the recording space are more perceptible.
Highly recommended.

http://www.auralex.com/product/tfusor-3d-sound-diffusor/

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 24, 2015 at 06:55:13
grantv Manufacturer Posts: 7728 Location: B.C. Joined: January 15, 2002	Some home made pieces for me... better soundstage, not dramatic change, but definitely noticeable.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 24, 2015 at 19:21:52
RickeyM Audiophile Posts: 2208 Location: East Coast Joined: March 15, 2003	I have cemented my membership on the Asylum by using bubble wrap. Large bubble variety. What it's done is to move the soundstage from the wall behind the speakers up to the plane of the speakers and widened it a bit as well.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 25, 2015 at 14:15:07
dromney Audiophile Posts: 244 Location: Dallas Joined: September 9, 2010	You have to post a picture of that!

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 25, 2015 at 16:51:18
ehous Audiophile Posts: 8 Location: Cincinnati, OH Joined: November 16, 2003	I am attaching a collage of my diffraction. The vertical behind the panels really tightened up what was already (IMO) a breath taking soundstage and image. The grid on the ceiling did not have any effect to mention.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on April 26, 2015 at 10:05:21
RickeyM Audiophile Posts: 2208 Location: East Coast Joined: March 15, 2003	Uh, you don't wanna see that. It does look just like you think it would. I actually have a 1-ft wide/5-ft long strip of small bubble dead center on the front wall with a strip of large bubble 2-ft wide (same length) on each side of the center strip.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 27, 2015 at 15:49:40

Markeneret
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Location: Oregon
Joined: November 2, 2010

I use tons of random and "naturally occurring" diffusion items in my garage listening room. The concave curves of the water heater and DIY tube traps work well, as do the randomly (messy) record shelf, the edges of the foam pieces as well as some auralex T-Fusors.

Oddly enough, the final addition of the 2 T Fusors behind the listening position made a huge, very audible difference ( AFTER installing 67 tube traps!). The image went 3D in depth and width. The clarity of the forward image focused crisply, acoustic instruments had bodies, cymbals shimmered=amazing.

I placed the duct tape markers on the floor immediately. I've moved and tried adjusting the T fusors many times, but they sound best in the staggered position in the picture.
"I see sound waves"

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 27, 2015 at 15:51:43
Markeneret Audiophile Posts: 83 Location: Oregon Joined: November 2, 2010	The front view uses a mix of tube traps (diffusion side facing forward) and a variety of painted T-Fusors. "I see sound waves"

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 27, 2015 at 19:02:29
ketchup Audiophile Posts: 622 Location: Pennsylvania Joined: February 29, 2004	Would you mind letting me know how much those QRDs cost?

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 28, 2015 at 04:54:55

johnvb
Audiophile

Posts: 495
Joined: October 26, 2011

As far as I can remember, SRL Audio was selling the foam diffusers for $50 for a 2' x 2' piece, (maybe with a minimum of 2 or 4 pieces?), same cost as the GIK GridFusor. I can't find his website anymore, although I know he still participates on the Audio Circle, so you could PM him there. His moniker is srlaudio.

Of course the extra wood and metal bracing increased the cost of mine quite a bit, but the foam units by themselves are light enough so that one could just glue them to a thin wood panel and hang them on the wall like a picture.

If you want to join two pieces to make a 2' x 4' panels, that's a bit of work. After gluing the halves together, you need to use some fine joint compound to fill up the middle seam. I used a paint stirrer stick with sand cloth attached to sand finish the compound smooth. Used latex caulking to seal between the foam and the wood frames. SRL supplied glue (at an extra cost) to join the pieces together, and to the backboard. And as mentioned above, painting these with a brush was time consuming, maybe a paint sprayer would work and be more efficient.

I've never bought GIK's stuff, but what is neat with the diffusers from SRL is they are packed with an inverted version (think of a cube with two interlocking halfs). Although the inverted version is said not to measure as well as the standard one, it can still be used as a stand alone unit. So you actually get two for the price of one.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 30, 2015 at 10:47:33

scolley
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Location: Connecticut
Joined: November 25, 2012

Just today I my paper diffusion panels arrived. Got 'em on eBay. They're just simple 1' square panels of thin cardboard, pressed into 3D shapes for diffusion. Very low spousal approval factor. But that's a personal problem...

Anyway, just to test them out I up two 2'x6' panels - with bluetack - in the primary reflection points on the front wall, behind the speakers. Wow!

I've never messed with acoustic room treatments before, due to the aforementioned spousal approval. But WOW. What a difference.

Imaging is tighter. I expected that. But what I did not expect - though should have, I suppose - is the profound clarity with which you can hear that space that the recording was made in. It REALLY increases that sense of "being there".

Two other changes that were immediately evident - and unexpected - were the widening of the sound stage, at times several feet beyond the outside edge of my speakers. And more, tighter bass. Though that might be something specific to the acoustics of my room.

With only 1 hour of listening, I can say already that I could not recommend this higher. The difference is profound. And at the incredibly low cost, it's almost a no brainer.

And no. I have no idea who the person is selling them on ebay. Don't know them.

Happy listening! - Steve

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 30, 2015 at 13:17:06
Swamis Cat Audiophile Posts: 272 Location: Illinois Joined: September 7, 2013	Steve, Which brand of diffusers were they? And tell us more about your setup. How far out were your speakers from the FW?

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 30, 2015 at 16:22:59

scolley
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Location: Connecticut
Joined: November 25, 2012

Wow! Apologies for my bad language in that last post. Was in a hurry. Sorry. Anyway...

I'm new to this forum, so apologies if this is breaking any "no pushing product or sellers" type rule. I got them on eBay. Search there for "Sound Diffusion Acoustic Professional Tiles". I got a couple of 12-13 tile boxes for not much more than $100 shipped. Pretty unbelievable deal IMO. And in the box there are instructions referencing www.mioculture.com. Maybe that's a better place to start.

As to my room, it's unfortunately square (a bad thing, I know) at 21.5" x 21.5". But it's nearly an "A" frame vaulted ceiling. And while it seems like everyone says vaulted=bad for maggies, mine sound awesome. So someone, somewhere is not entirely right about all vaulted ceilings being bad. ;-)

The room is somewhat live-end dead-end, as the front wall (behind the speakers) mostly wall and window. The back wall (behind listener) is a combination of primarily large rough stone, mixed with brick and VERY rough cut wood. So the back wall really diffuses sound.

The speakers are only 42" to 49" from the front wall. Clearly they are toed in. They are roughly 9' apart (center to center), and 6.25' from the side walls (center to wall). The listening position is 15" from the front wall.

The relevant gear is speakers: Magnepan 2.7 QRs, Amp: Aragon 8008, pre: vintage Aragon 24K w/external IPS, subs: REL T-5 pair, phono stage: Musical Surroundings Nova II, TT: Rega RP6 w/Exact II cart (and lots of upgrades), CD: Acurus ACD 11, interconnects: Kimber Hero and PBJs, speaker cables: Nordost Blue Heaven .

The pic is an old one, but it gives you an idea of the room. The panels are on the front wall, behind the speakers, but clearly visible (just not in this old picture).

Anyway... sounds pretty sweet. Many benefits that I was not anticipating. Highly reccomended. ;-)

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on May 31, 2015 at 10:45:02
Swamis Cat Audiophile Posts: 272 Location: Illinois Joined: September 7, 2013	Thanks. I am really tempted to buy an inexpensive set of diffusers to experiment. I tend to prefer my speakers further out (6-10 feet) and I have a dedicated room with no spousal acceptance issues. If I had FW diffusion I could play eith closer front wall positioning and test what the effects are in further from the FW set ups too.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on June 1, 2015 at 02:41:11

Jonathan 90
Audiophile

Posts: 155
Location: Toronto
Joined: September 12, 2008

☺

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on June 1, 2015 at 08:48:09
Swamis Cat Audiophile Posts: 272 Location: Illinois Joined: September 7, 2013	Love the way you have goosed up the room.

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on June 1, 2015 at 20:07:29
ketchup Audiophile Posts: 622 Location: Pennsylvania Joined: February 29, 2004	Quite a few of you use 3D diffusers, but I always thought 2D is what you want due to Maggies' dispersion pattern. Have you guys tried 2D and 3D diffusers and settled on 3D or is 3D all you tried?

RE: Anyone using deffusion panels ?, posted on June 2, 2015 at 10:30:19
Satie Audiophile Posts: 5426 Joined: July 6, 2002	Generally I agree that 2D vertical treatment is all you would want, but vertically active treatments placed symmetrically at the height of the speaker's acoustic center will not change the symmetry (and thus height rendition of images) but may address (front) wall to ceiling bounces that may muddy things up if the ceiling is not acoustic tile.

Planar Speaker Asylum

Anyone using deffusion panels ?

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