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What product (s) or services would like to see in the future from Magnepan?

71.63.144.215
Posted on February 6, 2015 at 20:29:33
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
 I'll start this off with:

1. A stand alone bass panel, (Tympani like), that went down into the low 20's. The option of buying a separate power module w/crossover...

2. A hardwood or metal frame verses the MDF...

3. Option for an outboard active crossover for Bi or Tri-amping...on all models...

4. An MG12/.7 size with a ribbon tweeter in the $2500-$3500 range...

Looking forward to hearing what other Maggie owners would like to see...

thanks
Mark

 

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    ...
LOL, posted on February 6, 2015 at 22:02:12
DragonEars
Audiophile

Posts: 662
Location: PNW
Joined: March 15, 2006
 .
It's not you MM, it's Magnepan.

First I want to say I love my Maggies and have no problem with Magnepan's business model.
But... they do things the way they do things. They don't seem to notice or care what the latest trends or customer desires are. Their products have not significantly changed from their originals in 1969 (correct year?). To some that may seem a negative thing.

They make a great product for a reasonable price. Could it be better? Certainly. They could pack their products with technology and exotic materials and components. Of course Magnepan could make them sound even better. Cost would be higher. Many would not be able to afford the price of admission. We all know the special sound of planars and it would be sad if that was out of reach for more people.

Plus, I'm a bit of a Luddite. I like elegant old things that function well. Like Maggies and tubes.

Hey Mark Man,
Most of the items on your wish list are available aftermarket or by modding.

 

RE: What product (s) or services would like to see in the future from Magnepan?, posted on February 6, 2015 at 22:29:11
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I have suggested the 'Custom Shop' approach on several occassions with ZERO traction. Colt Firearms does this and you can order anything from semi-custom to REALLY worked over.

Wood Frames, for example would mean an entire woodshop and SKILLED craftsmen. You'd need a selection of wood, too, and ON HAND, if you intended reasonable turnaround. Maybe 400 to 600 square feet of shop and almost as much in storage. 3 or 4 workers with administrative support.

Selling a crossover-less panel setup for bi or tri amping? How many of those do you REALISTICALLY hope to sell? And at quite a premium, too. Add in a real wood frame in Sapelle or some more exotic wood? You could EASILY double or more the price of a 1.7 level panel.

Somewhere buried in this site is a price list of services and costs:

Too much is never enough

 

Yes, I remember you stating just that on several occasions , posted on February 6, 2015 at 22:46:38
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
 The customizing shop is a great idea...I believe I did mention to you that they have a very well equipped wood shop, so slim to none capital investment on Magnepan's part...

I would not eliminate the stock crossovers, but how hard would be to have by-pass binding post for an active x-over or as an ADD option to a custom order...

Thanks Pictureguy...
Mark

 

RE: What product (s) or services would like to see in the future from Magnepan?, posted on February 7, 2015 at 02:51:12
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 Colt is not a good example they are on the verge of bankruptcy.

 

My take is that..., posted on February 7, 2015 at 06:15:48
MWE
Audiophile

Posts: 2202
Location: Burlington, NC
Joined: June 8, 2000
 most of these won't happen because, as others have said, they are simply too far outside of Magnepan's business box. Our fine folks in White Bear Lake are ultra-conservative in their practices, which overall is a good thing. They work within the big picture, and sorry, folks, the likes of us on this board (the activists, you might say) don't really fall within the big picture.
The one that certainly ought to be very doable (and should be done, IMO) is a 4 or 5' size with ribbon tweet. The 2.5/2.6R is well-regarded; a smaller version of that should be easy to produce. Too many people are locked out of the TRT simply by room size restrictions.

Mark in NC
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon

 

For me.., posted on February 7, 2015 at 06:59:23
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 First, I apologize if multiple post suddenly appear. I was having issues trying to post a reply.

1) More transparency on their designs. Anyone wishing to compete could easily buy a model and reverse engineer it (actually I am suprised the Chinese haven't done it) so proprietary knowledge is really not an issue.
2) Stronger magnets would allow a better selection of amps especially moderately powered (50-100 wpc) tubies.
3) Bring back the Unitrac I into production. There is a rising interest in vinyl and the Unitrac I was one of the best affordable tonearms ever made (about $250 when they came out)--just like their speakers.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

Second No. 3. One of the best unipivots ever made and a bargain to boot. /nt\, posted on February 7, 2015 at 07:50:08
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

Planar headphones, posted on February 7, 2015 at 08:44:37
Tubo
Audiophile

Posts: 375
Location: So. California
Joined: June 9, 2004
 With price and performance to kill Audeze, Hifiman, Fostex, etc.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on February 7, 2015 at 09:26:40
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2055
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 Bass in the low 20's is very difficult. You need to move a lot of air and that is difficult with the Magneplanar driver, it is a short stroke driver. The Tympani IVa low bass driver can move 2 mm (0.08") at the center of the diaphragm before hitting the magnets, around the edge it cannot move at all. The area of the driver is 280x1475 mm (11"x58"). That driver can move about 0.8 liter of air, minus the cancelling around the open baffle...

110 dB at 1 m at 20 Hz requires 6 liters to be moved. A planar driver without an enclosure cannot easily do that. Quite a few large drivers will be needed.

Stronger magnets is hardly compatible with the Magneplanar driver and low bass either. With a high field strength the necessary low frequency peak will not be possible.

 

RE: What product (s) or services would like to see in the future from Magnepan?, posted on February 7, 2015 at 09:40:05
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 1.) the 'Jian bracket' (see post below)
2.) a 'mini Maggie' for small rooms (not just 'computer speakers')
3.) a silicon or caulking in-between the panel and frame (a'la 'razoring')
4.) to garner the younger generation: 'blue tooth' capability separate component (a stretch yes but this is the future of audio)

for aesthetic/WAF options:

1.) premium rails for the 20x series ie a camphor veneer, bird's eye maple, burl wood,etc..
2.) premium "designer acoustic screens/cloth" (ie silk screen, far East design, etc.,)
3.) piano hinge capability to mount on wall studs allowing 'out of the way swing' when not in use









 

you've hit the nail on the head, posted on February 7, 2015 at 10:09:12
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 Yeah, a .7 with much better parts and frame (but not larger) in the three grand range.

Magnepans core philosophy of 'the only way to get better sound is with a bigger panel' is just wrong.

And I appreciate wanting to keep your products affordable, but jeez... there are LOTS of people with more money to spend in this business these days.











'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: you've hit the nail on the head, posted on February 7, 2015 at 10:43:00
Davey
 I don't believe that to be their "core philosophy." I think their outlook is that bigger panels are required for lower frequency performance and higher SPL capabilities. And that would be correct, not wrong.

Dave.

 

RE: you've hit the nail on the head, posted on February 7, 2015 at 12:54:08
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 It said for years on their webpage 'buy the biggest panel you can get, don't worry about your room, you can fix that later'.

They have ALWAYS PUSHED BIGGER PANELS.

From their webpage :

'The larger, higher definition Magneplanar will sound better than a lower-priced model, even in a small room. To use an analogy, a high definition video monitor does not lose resolution when placed in a small room.

Buy as much Magneplanar resolution as your budget will allow. Accuracy (or high definition) is the most important feature of the larger, more expensive models.

To use a video analogy—with a high definition monitor, you can see the individual blades of grass, not just a sea of green. The smaller models may fit into a room more easily, but they can't equal the larger, more expensive models, for accuracy.'




'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: you've hit the nail on the head, posted on February 7, 2015 at 14:22:30
Davey
 Their analogy is poor. :)

Dave.

 

A 4.7 system, posted on February 7, 2015 at 15:26:08
DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009
 two smaller fronts (MMG/.7 sized) with TRUE RIBBON, pus two DWM's and proper crossovers. Priced around 3.7 if they can.


Oh yeah, and much better pole piece bracing on the rear!

 

RE: Yes, I remember you stating just that on several occasions , posted on February 7, 2015 at 16:57:25
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I suspect the current woodshop is used mainly to make frames out of MDF.

You'll need a PLANER and maybe some other stuff they don't currently own. A good CABINET saw is mandatory.
Don't forget cost of training, safety and that you'll need a Master Carpenter / CAbinetmaker as the go-to guy for frames.

I don't know if the woodshop is at or over / under capacity. And that's one of the BIG rubs.
Duplication of tooling costs a LOT of money in Idle Time. Add in Downtime due to malfunction or breakage or UNavailable tooling and that REALLY eats into the profit.

Work sent to the Custom Shop potentially eats into some parts of the business while maybe making the people who fabricate the panels themselves somewhat BUSIER.

Too much is never enough

 

RE: Yes, I remember you stating just that on several occasions , posted on February 7, 2015 at 17:19:38
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
 A CNC is doing the majority of MDF and finished wood sides on 3's and 20's is the more conventional wood working...2-3 guys work currently in the wood shop...

As they run one model at a time on the floor, they have all the MDF frames stockpiled ahead of the production run...it is actually a pretty well orchestrated system...it is fun to watch...

Thanks
Mark

 

Sorry, I totally missed the point of this thread..., posted on February 7, 2015 at 18:21:13
DragonEars
Audiophile

Posts: 662
Location: PNW
Joined: March 15, 2006
 Sorry. I totally missed the point of this thread.

The perfect Maggie... Hmmm...
I want them to sound exactly like the original performance, be easy to drive and very efficient, require no special placement, setup or sound treatments.
Oh... and I want them to be free.

Wait a minute... that would ruin everything.
Perfection would kill our beloved hobby. Better to suffer the imperfections and foibles of the HiFi industry than lose this perfect never-ending painfully pleasurable obsession.

Welcome to the Asylum.

 

Exactly. It has served them (and us) well through many years. nt, posted on February 7, 2015 at 18:28:40
DragonEars
Audiophile

Posts: 662
Location: PNW
Joined: March 15, 2006
 .

 

A two panel Tympani, posted on February 7, 2015 at 22:21:03
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Push pull bass panel 24"X60" and the mid/tweeter from the 20.7.on a separate panel.

I don't want Magnepan to do any other options other than provide an easy way to multiamp their speakers.

I would like them to find a custom woodworking shop to work with them on rigid hardwood and metal frames so that we don't have to pay for both the MDF speaker and then taking it apart and adding the new hardwood frame.

 

As a lucky owner of a Unitrac, I heartily agree. :-)) nt, posted on February 8, 2015 at 00:34:28
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 .

 

Absolutely! :-)) nt, posted on February 8, 2015 at 00:35:53
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 .

 

I hate you! One would go nicely atop my restored TD-150., posted on February 8, 2015 at 11:45:15
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014










Opus 33 1/3

 

RE: A two panel Tympani, posted on February 8, 2015 at 11:57:05
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 finding an OUTSOURCE for custom wood frames would be $$$ and of course passed on to the final customer.
Much less (somewhat, anyway) expensive would be to OWN the proper toolset for real wood frame construction and employ a person of Master Cabinet Maker level.

Due to the GIGANTIC number and variety of eligible woods, keeping STOCK would be difficult, space consuming and a lot of $$$ tied up. And while 'Just In Time' is a wonderful business model, it is difficult to find some of these woods as quickly as a customer might expect. At a reasonable price.

Changes would need to be made in Final Assembly since real wood must be treated differently than MDF which is going to be 'socked' and THAT means training, and some new assembly tooling.

I wish it werent' true, but In order for Magnepan to get into the Custom Framing end of the buzz, would require QUITE a bit of investment for only limited returns. Who is going to spend the price for MMGs when the base speaker is 600$ the pair? How much would the refreamed MMG go for?
Too much is never enough

 

Naah, it deserves a much better TT than that!! ;-)) ..., posted on February 8, 2015 at 12:01:28
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 All you need to do is establish a search on eBay. Sooner or later, one will come up. Expect to pay ~USD300.

Andy

 

RE: Yes, I remember you stating just that on several occasions , posted on February 8, 2015 at 13:14:54
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Yes, and since virtually everything is programmed, setup is minimal. Changing from one model to another is as simple as loading the new data.
Tooling, however, must STILL be monitored and changed on a regular basis. If you wait for a bad part due to worn tooling, you've waited too long.
2 or 3 guys in the woodshop? For current needs that's about right. Maybe the high or higher number when doing a change of model or the small number just when running with a fixed setup.
Care must be taken with MDF depending on the exact type and grade. NO sitting your coffee cup on the pile!
A real frame-building woodshop? More complicated and just the parts count with wood screws, glue, design and engineering and so forth REALLY add time and costs. And I know Magnepan would want to test a few designs if only for quality and durability. The additional time and manufacturing steps of just the frame would have to be TIMED so the frame reaches final assembly at the RIGHT TIME to mate with its drivers.
OH! and don't forget PACKING. I'm sure some changes would happen there, too.

The list is long, but not quite endless. But just wait until you get the BILL.
Too much is never enough

 

Eat your heart out :), posted on February 8, 2015 at 16:55:44
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 I actually own two Unitrac's. One is on a Denon DP-55K and the other on a Linn Sondek LP12 Valhalla.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

Wow! you have two to give you joy! ;-)) .., posted on February 8, 2015 at 17:56:42
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Given both TTs have the same arm ... which one do you prefer listening to, neo?

Did I tell you about my 'SkeletaLinn' - which I created in order to be able to use a locally-made 12", ebony-wanded UP yet still keep the good things about an LP12? My Unitrac is the 2nd arm on this TT, running a Stanton WOS CS100 (the 12" arm has a Benz Ebony).


Regards,

Andy

 

That is wrong on so many levels. /nt\, posted on February 8, 2015 at 17:57:03
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

DSP Speaker & Room correction device, posted on February 8, 2015 at 18:18:13
TitaniumTroy
Audiophile

Posts: 626
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
Joined: October 14, 2006
 Ti-amp capability, dual sided push pull magnets, seperate mid and tweeter cabinet, metal frame.

Also some kind of turnkey DSP room and speaker correction device, that does not cost an arm and a leg, like DEXQ.

 

"Also some kind of turnkey DSP room and speaker correction device, that does not cost an arm and a leg" ..., posted on February 8, 2015 at 18:54:39
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 This can be done quite readily. :-)) I have just ordered a pair of custom-made subs for the listening room in my new house (which has just started construction - so I won't be listening to the subs until the end of the year! :-(( ).

The maker of these subs uses a miniDSP unit to provide:
* active sub LP filter
* active woofer HP filter
* delay on the woofer, to match up with the sub, and
* room correction for <120Hz.

Because the bass panels have to be delayed - the mids & ribbons have to be, too. So I will have to replace my current 3-way analogue active XO with the miniDSP equivalent.

The miniDSP units are remarkably inexpensive.


Regards,

Andy

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on February 9, 2015 at 00:23:09
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I'm not 100% with your model.
The reason I like stronger magnets is that if the driver/pole piece spacing stays the same, sensitivity should go UP. I'm not going to go into the handling of Ultra Strong magnets, which I assure you CAN be hazardous and must be done with respect. A pinched finger may be the least injury you could expect!
If you increase spacing, sensitivity should go down, but the possible EXCURSION of the diaphragm should be increased. That should help bass a lot.
Now, the rub? You must come to grips with the physical properties of Mylar AND as more force is placed on it, the driver frame starts to come into play as well. Mylar isn't very 'stretchy' (modulus of elasticity) which is good, and it does have a fairly high tensile strength, also good. At higher excursions, I suspect transfer to torque on the driver frame. A better way of securing the driver to the wood/mdf part of the frame may help this.
Just thinking out loud, as it were.

Too much is never enough

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on February 9, 2015 at 04:08:02
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2055
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 "The reason I like stronger magnets is that if the driver/pole piece spacing stays the same, sensitivity should go UP."

Yes, that is true. You can also use a thinner conductor. Then the sensitivity remains the same. A lower moving mass driver and that can be useful for higher frequencies.

"If you increase spacing, sensitivity should go down, but the possible EXCURSION of the diaphragm should be increased. That should help bass a lot."

As you also mention the lack of elasticity of the Mylar, it will counteract larger excursion in a Magneplanar driver. In any driver with a streched film like Mylar, there is a very limited linear excursion possible. There is no suspension built-in allowing for larger excursions. Bruce Thigpen of Eminent Technolgy experimented with a more elastic diaphragm in his drivers. I contacted him a few years ago on the subject. Apogee made a longer stroke driver and nowdays Analysis does.

The way the Mylar is fastend to the spacers, a lot of energy is transfered to the baffle/frame. I have been holding the bass drivers in my hand while playing some low frequency signals... Yes, it really shakes! There may be different ways of absorbing these forces. Personally I do not believe hard wood is any better than MDF. Static mass is needed, 1000 times the moving mass would be fine.

 

RE: Wow! you have two to give you joy! ;-)) .., posted on February 9, 2015 at 07:17:12
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Currently, I actually prefer the Denon which was a top of the model table (all manual) when I bought it. Two completely different approaches. The Denon is like a rock and I can actually slide the turntable around while playing and it doesn't skip a groove. The LP, as you know, has to be mounted on the wall to prevent "foot-falls". To me the Denon has a slightly quieter background but this may be due to bearings in my Linn rather than the design itself. The Linn has somewhat better upper frequency - just a tad more snap if you will with cymbals, etc. I keep the two because I can't really decide which one is better and tomorrow I may prefer the Linn. FWIW I use a Dynavector 17DMkII and am saving some pennies for a MKIII as the II is about 10 yrs old.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

Oughtta save a few more and go to the XX-2. /nt\, posted on February 9, 2015 at 11:25:28
Opus 33 1/3
Audiophile

Posts: 4184
Location: D.C. Area
Joined: February 19, 2014




Opus 33 1/3

 

A bass only panel styled same as 20.7. with crossover matching 20.7s.. nt, posted on February 12, 2015 at 11:52:06
Nuit
 .

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on February 12, 2015 at 12:10:17
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 The 'direct' approach is to simply throw more mass at the 'problem'.
My approach would be to use some REAL engineering and design a structurally rigid frame of low mass. I believe rigid trumps mass, as long as certain other criteria are met.
Do you have google sketch up? That's how I do my idea drawings. I'll share one, if you have that program available. I think it is still 'free'.
Too much is never enough

 

Have you heard both?, posted on February 15, 2015 at 10:15:12
Cory M.
Audiophile

Posts: 1172
Location: Midwest
Joined: April 10, 2005
 I'm just wondering, because I find the Karat to be a particularly good match for use with planars because it's just so fast and neutral. I attribute this to its very short diamond cantilever.

I don't want to veer off topic, but am just curious to know what you find their differences to be.

Thanks,


Cory


 

So, you're "crossing over" to the other side, eh?, posted on February 15, 2015 at 10:56:41
Cory M.
Audiophile

Posts: 1172
Location: Midwest
Joined: April 10, 2005
 Cheesy pun intended. ;-)

I'm very interested in hearing your impressions of going DSP after you have it all set up, Andy!

It's been awhile since we chatted, and I still believe that I don't hear any negative artifacts despite preferring and listening to mostly vinyl on my system, only positive results. I'm sure that it could be "bettered" by doing it all in the analog domain, but that would take a lot more to get there.

I'll have to do some reading on these miniDSP units.

Kinda like Helmholtz, I consider the DEQX a central piece of my system. And I'm an "analog guy". :-)

Of course, I haven't used any of the higher end active crossover units like the Bryston, Marchand or Accuphase. Only PLLO and an Ashly unit before this.





Cory


 

Haha - yes, I am. :-)), posted on February 15, 2015 at 11:09:38
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 You and other vinyl guys who are using DEQX units have shown me that it's possible, without degradation ... and then you get the advantage of room correction! :-))

Interestingly enough, Cory, a single DEQX HDP4 can't do what I need to do - but a pair of 2x4 miniDSP units can.

This won't be happening until the end of the year, though.


Regards,

Andy

 

I'll 4th bringing the Unitrac back!, posted on February 15, 2015 at 11:20:19
Cory M.
Audiophile

Posts: 1172
Location: Midwest
Joined: April 10, 2005
 I heard that they recently "disposed" all of the remaining parts for them however, what a shame. I wonder if the plans and tooling still exist? It's a fabulous arm that they could sell a bunch of if re-introduced now.

BTW, I did get one of those Ken Willis Accutrak protractors, and it's an awesome tool. Couldn't be simpler to use, and the alignment is exact.


Cory


 

"Ken Willis Accutrak protractors"..., posted on February 15, 2015 at 11:26:34
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 That's great, Cory. I have to recommend another useful tool I bought a few months ago (as I had a PayPal balance from selling off my LP12 bits, that I needed to reduce). A 'Fozgometer'.

I was sceptical when they came out - but, having got one, I see they quickly and easily enable you to get azimuth correct.


Regards,

Andy

 

Unitrac II (n/t), posted on February 15, 2015 at 13:48:44
Cory M.
Audiophile

Posts: 1172
Location: Midwest
Joined: April 10, 2005
 .
Cory


 

A Fozgometer would be really nice,, posted on February 15, 2015 at 14:04:24
Cory M.
Audiophile

Posts: 1172
Location: Midwest
Joined: April 10, 2005
 especially with the Unitrac and other unipivot tonearms.

Setting the azimuth correctly has been probably the most difficult perimeter to get right for me.

The Fozgometer will have to wait awhile. Can I borrow yours? I'll just swing by and pick it up, lol.


Cory


 

RE: A Fozgometer would be really nice,, posted on February 15, 2015 at 14:27:53
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12548
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Any time, Cory ... it's only a 14-hr flight from LA, I believe (direct to Melbourne) but coming from the mid-West will add quite a few hours. :-((

The way I see it, the Fozgometer is only the icing on the cake - you can still get 'the cake' by using a CD (shiny side up) as a mirror and getting the cantilever and its reflection in a straight line.

The Fozgometer just goes that one stage further to allow for the situation (very common, I would imagine) where the stylus is not true in the cantilver but is tilted sideways slightly, compared to the cantilever.


Regards,

Andy

 

RE: What product (s) or services would like to see in the future from Magnepan?, posted on May 4, 2015 at 11:27:21
ntom@dsl.pipex.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Surrey
Joined: May 4, 2015
 A way of contacting the company from out side the USA other than international phone call!

Email contact address?

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 13:28:46
JLindborg
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: Uppsala
Joined: April 26, 2010
 Rigidity do not trump mass at all when it comes do dampening vibrations.
This has been proven by other speaker makers years and years ago.

Think about it again...
Why do You think Apogee planars weigh a lot?
A sad side effect of the design?
Not really. hehe

Each speaker of the Apogee Scintilla weighs over 80 kg. That's more then 176 lb.
Does it vibrate when playing bass heavy material above 100 db?
Not really. ;)

Try this if it was made out of aluminium framing.
It would bounce around in the room.
The remedy?
Secure it to the floor with angled iron. Does this ring a bell?
The result?
You have added mass, namely your house!
But the speaker frame will ring like a bell!!!

Cheers!




The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 14:43:25
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 I am totally with the "house mass" damping solution for vibration - I use my walls, not the floor so much. Increases both rigidity and introduces mass damping.

Are you sure the gap on the deep bass panel is only 2mm? I don't have my measurements available any more (nor a working caliper), but IIRC it was bigger than that.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 14:59:22
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I keep going back to the design of the platter of my Dual1209. It was a 2-piece design, EITHER of which when separated, would ring-like-a-bell.
Together? Not at all.
That's ingenious VS Brute Force.

And I would NEVER use metal in the structural part of a panel frame. Even Aluminum, which apparently makes a poor bell, is NOT to be used.

As for 'securing to the floor'? Gravity has always worked for me.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 20:37:57
JLindborg
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: Uppsala
Joined: April 26, 2010
 Well the Dual 1209 is a record player.
That is a hell of a difference.
Also, if You are into the record player reference You ought to look into Technics SL1200Mk2 that has been the long milestone of hard core disco players just because it is so damped with a lot of mass.

But now, speakers are not record players and comparing those to make a good speaker is not.... valid.

Cheers!


The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 20:52:17
JLindborg
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: Uppsala
Joined: April 26, 2010
 Yes Satie, it's max 2mm or less on some.
Just take the fact that the surrounding mounting support of a Magnepan membrane is 3 mm thick.
Now, reduce this 3 mm with the ca 2 mm thickness of the magnets.
Not much left and the 2 mm would be the max distance between them if they would have bent the magnet pole piece to get some distance.

Cheers!
The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 20:55:04
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 I guess I miss YOUR distinction between a 'record player' and a 'turntable'.


And physics is physics. Dual COULD have gotten as low a resonance as they did, with other means, maybe a much more massive platter, not the ingenious method used.

Using 2 masses with non-cogging resonance is a great idea for a speaker.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 21:05:43
JLindborg
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: Uppsala
Joined: April 26, 2010
 I didn't know that there was a difference between a record player and a turntable... is there?

And DUAL is not the high end milestone of record players is it?

Cheers!



The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 23:02:53
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2055
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 Satie wrote:

"Are you sure the gap on the deep bass panel is only 2mm? I don't have my measurements available any more (nor a working caliper), but IIRC it was bigger than that."

Yes, the gap on the the T-IVa is just 2 mm. My older T-IIIA has a gap of 1.6 mm on their basses and mids.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 6, 2015 at 23:42:15
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Dual as the 'ultimate' TT is NOT the issue. Going back a few years, I suppose I rather even have my brother's Benjamin / Miracord! The resonance features of the 2-piece platter is what I care about as a 'cue' to design of panel frames. Self canceling distributed resonance doesn't require more mass, just more ingenious design and good execution.

You're the one who called the Dual a 'record player' when after I had ref'd it as a TT, which is all I've ever known it as.

And considering I bought mine in about '72 or so, not a bad deal at all. I was very happy with it for a number of years. It was fine with most medium compliance MM carts of the Era from Pickering and Shurer or even Grado, which made a wonderful, highly regarded cart which retailed for maybe 20$ or so. I installed the last on several friends TTs who I KNEW to be tough on equipment and had NO adverse feedback.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 7, 2015 at 01:06:02
JLindborg
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: Uppsala
Joined: April 26, 2010
 Pictureguy...
I feel You are taking this to a pretty redicules argumentation.
I have said my piece and will leave it at that.

Cheers


The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.

 

RE: Planar headphones, posted on May 7, 2015 at 13:33:34
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Have fun JL, and I'll know next time that whatever you say, goes.

One further question, if I may.
Arguement has 2 meanings. It can either imply 2 persons yelling at one another across a table or some form of logical discourse. Which one did I violate, so I'll know next time.

cheers and happy listening.
Too much is never enough

 

Metal grills, posted on May 8, 2015 at 13:44:46
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004



.



'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: Metal grills, posted on May 8, 2015 at 14:48:31
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Like THESE?
Too much is never enough

 

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