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Room correction systems W/ Maggies

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Posted on October 17, 2014 at 13:22:59
macmagman
Audiophile

Posts: 501
Location: NW Indiana
Joined: October 17, 2010
 How many of you use or are familiar with room correcting systems and their impact on sound. I really don't have any issues (I don't think) so I'm wondering how much improvement one might make.

I currently am bi-amping my 20.1's and have run across a McIntosh MEN220. I was originally looking for one but ended up with a Marchand X44. The main reason was to match my other McIntosh components.

Everything I read was mostly people using box speakers, It seems all the improvements stated I already had in my current system.

 

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RE: Room correction systems W/ Maggies, posted on October 17, 2014 at 13:39:38
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 If you are all digital then using a digital room correction prior to your DAC is always useful. You just need to be careful with your measurements and implementation of the correction.

Other than wide open spaces all rooms have resonant modes at particular frequencies. Room correction does not always correct them well but will always do something at least marginally beneficial.

 

RE: Room correction systems W/ Maggies, posted on October 18, 2014 at 09:56:43
Barry
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Location: PA
Joined: November 24, 1999
Contributor
  Since: January 18, 2009
 Yes room correction works for panels. Everyone has some room issues. Frequency response problems can be compounded by bi/tri-amping a system. Without some way to measure both you really have no idea. Of course whether it bothers you or not is another matter - ignorance can be bliss.

I have played around for two years with a Dspeaker Anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core digital correction device and have learned a lot on my tri-amped (w/sub) modified Maggie 3.6+ sub system. Generally: 1) Digital room correction is best suited for frequencies below 500Hz to deal with room modes. You can use room treatment and speaker placement to solve for everything else; 2) Narrow-band room mode dips are not audible which is good because they are not really correctible with DSP; 2)Peaks are treatable with DSP. You may or may not hear the difference after correction depending on how broad and "peaky" your frequency response problem is. I've adjusted narrow peaks of 3dB or so below 80Hz and honestly couldn't hear the difference on the before and after (my system is flat to 20Hz).; 3)Depending on the transparency of your system you may not want to add other signal processing.

So for me, I didn't end up using the Dspeaker gizmo in my system for room correction. I have used it for speaker placement, setting crossover frequencies and room treatment. There are other better tools to measure with, REW etc. At one point after hundreds of hours of adjustments, my room response looked something like this in this old pic (pretty flat considering minimal octave smoothing here). It's better now as I'm still measuring and adjusting but it sounds really good to me and I'd rather not have more stuff in the signal path.

Love those frequency sweep tones!




 

Audyssey MultEQ XT32 works well with my Maggies..., posted on October 18, 2014 at 10:17:41
Tubo
Audiophile

Posts: 375
Location: So. California
Joined: June 9, 2004
 in a 5.1 surround-sound system using MMG's left and right, a Mini-Maggie system as a center channel (that's right, the two satellites and the DMW wooofer fed a mono center channel signal), Spendor LS3/5A's as surrounds, and an Epik subwoofer. I believe Ausyssey has a large role in making my system sound lifelike and true.

 

RE: Room correction systems W/ Maggies, posted on October 18, 2014 at 12:26:17
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 In my experience, a small amount of frequency correction can work pretty good. However if you get too heavy handed you will find your system limits. If you loudspeaker cuts off at say 35Hz, getting it to go deeper is going to be difficult. Same thing for the top end. In most cases the designer has gotten the balance of his speaker system just about right.

 

RE: Room correction systems W/ Maggies, posted on October 18, 2014 at 20:34:51
BruceS
Audiophile

Posts: 119
Location: Australia
Joined: March 18, 2004
 I heard DEQX (PreMATE +) yesterday on Maggies at the Melbourne HiFi show.
The difference is significant and easily hearable.
Yes, the guy in charge of the room (Bill) was switching it in and out.
He was doing the same thing with the De Vores on display with the same result.
Also had a lengthy chat with the MD from DEQX just outside room 318.
It was all about using the DEQX for room (and crossover) correction on electrostats.
To sum up a 15 minute conversation, those nasty room nodes are everywhere but the DEQX can work a treat on electrostats, just needs to take the fact that they are panels into account.
I certainly plan to get a PreMATE + as part of my next upgrade.
As something of an aside, one room at the HIFi show appeared to have placed their speakers and selected their music just so that they could excite every single mode in their room!!!!
My own listening room has a nasty set of nodes so I am particularly conscious of them.
Bruce

 

Remember that dipoles behave differently, posted on October 18, 2014 at 23:21:07
sd
Audiophile

Posts: 117
Location: No Cal
Joined: April 19, 2010
 Depending on what software you are using, the correction may work much better for point source than dipole speakers (typically because that is what it was built for). Part of the "Maggie Magic" is the way that they interact with the room.

I worked for a while with the Dirac software as well as with Lexicon's proprietary system, but I found that both reduced the liveliness (or at least affect impulse responses in undesireable ways) of my system unless I really limited the correction to 300 Hz and below. Dirac claims that they have worked with dipoles and that their software handles them correctly, but I couldn't convince myself of that in my system.
SD

 

RE: Audyssey MultEQ XT32 works well with my Maggies..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 15:53:07
audiozorro
Audiophile

Posts: 628
Location: VA-MD-DC
Joined: January 9, 2007
 How do you have your center channel arranged? The two satellites side by side or over each other? Or is this for a home theater setup with a video screen in the middle separating the two satellites with the DWM below the screen?

 

Mini Maggies as center channel (long), posted on October 25, 2014 at 12:06:43
Tubo
Audiophile

Posts: 375
Location: So. California
Joined: June 9, 2004
 The Maggie system is below the screen, with the DWM in the center, on the floor. The two satellites are on either side, 38 inches apart, center to center, on 16-inch high solid ash stands, toed-in so that they cross about two feet in front of the center listening position. This way, the sweet spot is as wide as my couch.

I know this is not Magnepan's intended (or recommended) use for the Mini Maggies. However, they have perhaps inadvertently created their best center channel speaker. Magnepan's dedicated center channel speakers, such as the MMGC which I own (but sits unused) and the flagship CCR (which I've heard at my local dealer in a very good dedicated HT room) suffer from not having sufficient low-end response (barely 200Hz) and a small sweet spot. No wonder they tout their Tri-Center solution!

The Mini Maggies are a better tri-center. They offer the best of Magnepan: true ribbon tweeters (in the satellites) and magnets on both sides of the diaphragm (in the DWM). To get those two technologies you would have to spend twice as much in the CCR (with the deficiencies noted above), or much more in the 3.7's and 20.7's (which are full-size speakers, not center channels).

Mini Maggies are detailed, transparent, with an extended and refined treble, a sweet midrange, and taut bass (down to about 60Hz). As a center channel speaker they raise dialogue intelligibility and anchor the soundstage with authority.

Last night, when I hosted my weekly night at the movies, I sat on the extreme left of the room. We watched Roman Polanski's Venus in Fur which has a terrific soundtrack. The soundstage was wide, deep, and tall, even from my extreme left vantage point!

 

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