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Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7

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Posted on October 2, 2014 at 17:20:36
Grimace
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Pittsburgh
Joined: June 26, 2011
 A good friend just gave me a pair of IIa's that he bought brand new in 1983. They were back to the factory and have new mylar and wires and are in good working order. So far I'm mighty impressed with them. In some respects they put my Verities to shame. They're far better than any 30 year old speaker with a reputation for being temperamental has a right to be.

I've always read that Maggies in general need a lot of solid state juice to drive them. However, I do not have a solid state amp. I'm using a Cary V12r with 6550 tubes in UL, which puts out about 100 watts. I am using the amp's 4 ohm taps. The V12 is not a "low powered" tube amp by any stretch, but still 100 watts is 100 watts. I'm a little further into the volume knob than I would be with my Verities, so the Maggies are clearly using more power, but I don't have any sense that I'm under powering the speakers or over driving the amp at any any normal volume that listen to. I also subscribe to the theory that 'if it sounds good,it is good' and so far this combination is terrific.

My question is: I've been unable to find impedance specs for the IIa's. Given that these are thirty years old and presumably have a finite life, does anyone know if the impedance is similar to the current 3.7s, and if I could expect similar performance characteristics if at some future time I decide to get a pair. I'm not in any hurry to replace these IIa's but it would be good to know should they meet their maker.

Also, as long as I'm here, I'm open to any advice on the care and feeding of the IIa's, or things to look out for. They really are lovely sounding speakers. Pianos are beautiful.

Thanks!

 

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RE: Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7, posted on October 2, 2014 at 18:59:32
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 They should be about 4 ohms.

Get them Mye stands or build your own, that will improve performance across the board. The manufacturer posts here often. Search for him.

100 tube watts should do fine in a small room so long as you don't want rock concert or full symphonic orchestra levels in your room.

Look up "Limage" placement to see if it is possible in your room. It is generally better in spacial and bass performance than "normal" alternatives.

 

RE: Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7, posted on October 3, 2014 at 04:49:04
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Take a look at the "Articles" page for a specifications of all the Magnepan models. You can find a schematic of the IIa on the "Tweaks" page. Unfortunately no one has posted schematics for the X.7 series. You will find the links at the top of the page for this forum.
Welcome to the world of Maggies! Spend sometime searching the archives as there is a lot of info on set-ups and DIY tweaks, etc.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

you should consider bi-amping, posted on October 3, 2014 at 06:36:39
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 Hello Grimace and welcome aboard! IMO bi-amping is the way to go with tubes and big cat Maggies. I run a pair of old VTL 100 watt mono blocks on the tweeter/midrange of my MG20s, along with a pair of solid state mono blocks on the bottom; in this case a pair of beefy Emotivas (1K watt each @ 4ohm). The best of both worlds, the tweet/mids panels cruise up in the mid 70s dbl's and of course the Emotivas pound the boards on the bass end. They're both split with a Marchand XM44 XO.

You'll never realize the full bass potential of the big Maggies with only a pair of 100 watt tube amps going at em' full range.

Just my opinion ; )











 

RE: you should consider bi-amping, posted on October 3, 2014 at 08:05:29
Norman M
 That particular opinion circulated amongst Maggie owners since the beginning of time.

 

RE: Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7, posted on October 3, 2014 at 09:09:51
onemug
Audiophile

Posts: 1276
Location: So. California
Joined: April 19, 2003
 "Also, as long as I'm here, I'm open to any advice on the care and feeding of the IIa's, or things to look out for. They really are lovely sounding speakers. Pianos are beautiful."

Congrats on your "first" pair of Maggies. I've had my 3.6's for 15 trouble free yrs.

I had a Cary V12 many years ago. Don't be afraid to try it in triode mode. For some music you might prefer it. Don't worry about the less wattage, your ears will tell you if there is any problem.

 

RE: Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7, posted on October 3, 2014 at 16:48:20
Grimace
Audiophile

Posts: 12
Location: Pittsburgh
Joined: June 26, 2011
 Thanks for the responses, guys. Apparently Magnepan is some sort of cult, and I seem to be joining it.

Could anyone comment on how the 3.7s would be to drive compared to the IIa's?

 

"That particular opinion circulated amongst Maggie owners since the beginning of time." ..., posted on October 3, 2014 at 20:42:17
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 So do you disagree with it then, Norman?

Andy

 

Except that, of course, 3.7s are set up to be only driven by 2 channels of amplification! :-(( nt, posted on October 3, 2014 at 20:44:20
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 .

 

There is one significant difference between 3.X series Maggies and your IIas ..., posted on October 3, 2014 at 20:58:29
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 The 3.X have true ribbon tweeters - ie. separate to the mylar which carries the other driver(s). On all the 2-ways except the 2.5 / 2.6, the tweeter is wire-on-mylar (or foil (aka'quasi-ribbon')-on-mylar).

The 2-ways can thus be driven by an amp which is approaching its maximum rating ... whereas if a single amp is driving a 3.X and the juice being sucked by the bass panels gets it anywhere near clipping, this may cause the ribbon to blow.

People have reported blowing true-ribbons when using a 100w tube amp (Manley 'Snappers' - 100w).

That being said, many people here have moved from mylar/wire-based models to 3.Xs and they have all said that the true-ribbon tweeter delivers something more! ;-)) But you need more power with these - unless you listen softly, in a very small room.


Regards,

Andy

 

RE: "That particular opinion circulated amongst Maggie owners since the beginning of time." ..., posted on October 4, 2014 at 08:12:16
Norman M
 Perhaps a little bit of the 'chicken little syndrome'.

 

That particular opinion..., posted on October 4, 2014 at 10:21:43
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Mostly because Magnepan encouraged bi-amping and had ARC design an electronic crossover especially for the Tympani models and sold the XO-1 unit for the II's and III's.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7, posted on October 4, 2014 at 10:39:37
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 A little more on the IIa. The crossover is a symmetric 3rd order Butterworth with a crossover at 2100 hz. The output (electronic only) is razor flat and the impedance curve is extremely flat as well varying from 6 ohms down to 5 ohms with a gentle transition occuring around the xo point and no peaks or dips. These are extremely easy speakers to drive.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: That particular opinion..., posted on October 4, 2014 at 12:02:05
Norman M
 IIRC they then sold a tubed X-0, the EC-3/A for use with a Tympani 1-C (and EC-4 for use with a Tympani IIIA), both quite a while prior to the simple XO-1.

Back then ~40 years ago when this equipment was considered amongst the best, (and also when my hearing was a lot better) I owned a Tympani 1C, EC-3a, a pair of D-76As as well as Mr. Bongiorno's original Ampzilla having lots of fun alternating between the D-76As (bridged) and the Ampzilla driving the tops and bottoms of the Tympani

A friend had a III-A for which his Maggie dealer recommended a pair of Crown DC-300As and I recall spending many afternoons enjoying his rig (Decca arm/cartridge/SP-10TT.

At my age, if it plays loud enough while not setting off the smoke detectors almost anything is good. :-(




 

RE: "That particular opinion circulated amongst Maggie owners since the beginning of time." ..., posted on October 4, 2014 at 12:11:58
Norman M
 Davey:
It's "chicken little" in that after one chicken gets hit on the head by a falling acorn, it then runs around telling all the other chickens about it and eventually all fall into the common belief that the sky is falling and the world is coming to an end, (and has nothing to do with technology).

 

Second the bi-amping idea, posted on October 4, 2014 at 19:36:47
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
though it is less impactful at the 2khz XO to have a separate amo for tweeter and bass, it is still a good idea if you want the sweet top end of a tube amp and the power of a SS amp for the bass.

While it is very good to have biamping on a 3 way maggie, it is less useful on the 2 way maggies.

 

Really?, posted on October 13, 2014 at 13:28:43
sbrians
Audiophile

Posts: 1455
Joined: March 4, 2002
 I agree that 3's need bi-amping, but how many people here recommending that on II's have heard IIs? Based on my limited experience with my IIb's, I cannot imagine much improvement from the extra work in this case.

 

RE: Really?, posted on October 14, 2014 at 06:21:24
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 It isn't a huge deal like in a 3way maggie, but it does allow a little more flexibility within a budget in getting a great performance rather than just good. It allows you to have the low powered low feedback SET or class A amp on the tweeter and have a high feedback big damping factor amp on the bass. The difference with the 3way maggie is that you still need to watch for the midrange SQ of the bass amp.

 

RE: Maggie IIa's, tubes, and the 3.7, posted on October 17, 2014 at 20:52:52
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 You must have enough power for a 3.7 - particularly if you listen loud and without subwoofers. 500 wpc into 4 ohm rating is a must, not an option so that you don't clip and kill your ribbon.

If you use subs you can get away with 200 wpc into 4 ohms SS, or 100 and change wpc tube power (with the 3.7 high passed).

 

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