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Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?

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Posted on September 11, 2014 at 19:31:27

Bill_k
Audiophile

Posts: 67
Location: SW Chicago suburb
Joined: February 22, 2012

I know that there has been quite a bit of speculation as to what Magnepan changed with their recent introduction of the revised Magneplanar 3.7i. The company has been quite secretive about exactly what the modification consists of, just claiming that it makes an audible improvement. I recently came across the linked press release regarding the 3.7i from the UK which I thought could clear up some of the confusion. You can see in the fourth paragraph that they mention a newly re-engineered time and phase aligned crossover. This type of change would be consistent with the requirement to ship the speakers back to the factory to have the upgrade installed and the cost of $500. Hope that you find this information helpful.

http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/magneplanar-mg-3-7i-loudsp

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This is what I know forsure...

Mark Man

08:48:39 09/13/14

I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt

andyr

03:01:41 09/14/14

RE: I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt

DrChaos

04:45:50 09/16/14

...

Show full thread outline!

This is what I know forsure...

Mark Man

08:48:39 09/13/14

I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt

andyr

03:01:41 09/14/14

RE: I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt

DrChaos

04:45:50 09/16/14

RE: I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt

Mechnutt

20:45:31 10/15/14

Just more speculation IMO!

Potrzebie

15:33:30 09/12/14

slapshot

19:38:25 09/12/14

Potrzebie

22:02:17 09/12/14

Swamis Cat

10:06:09 09/13/14

You state the obvious!

Potrzebie

13:59:34 09/13/14

RE: You state the obvious!

Swamis Cat

15:16:22 09/13/14

Hasse

02:16:58 09/13/14

Potrzebie

19:06:49 09/13/14

Roger Gustavsson

04:00:24 09/13/14

RE: Just more speculation IMO!

ahendler

17:59:31 09/12/14

Spend $6000 to find out.

Potrzebie

22:06:04 09/12/14

RE: Just more speculation IMO!

Bill_k

19:04:10 09/12/14

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?

Bill_k

12:08:10 09/12/14

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?

Davey

18:50:08 09/12/14

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?

Bill_k

19:28:43 09/12/14

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?

DrChaos

10:32:36 09/12/14

more/mere speculation?

wazoo

20:21:07 09/11/14

RE: more/mere speculation?

Bill_k

04:07:44 09/12/14

wazoo

05:03:30 09/12/14

RE: PR and Beyond!

Swamis Cat

07:27:44 09/12/14

RE: PR and Beyond!

Davey

07:26:54 09/12/14

more/mere speculation?, posted on September 11, 2014 at 20:21:07

wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006

I'll believe it when we have a parts list comparison. Until then, I don't know what to believe. I have seen photographs which reveal one of the modifications, which could be the entirety of what the 'i' brings to the table. Magnepan is not going to make this information known to us or to any reviewer...including one in the UK.

Thanks (sincerely) for the link and for trying to clear up the 'i' mystery (something which I find annoying and...), but I'm quite skeptical of this revelation.

RE: more/mere speculation?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 04:07:44
Bill_k Audiophile Posts: 67 Location: SW Chicago suburb Joined: February 22, 2012	I expected there to be some skepticism, but this is from a press release in the UK not from a reviewer. Seems like a pretty credible source to me. Parts list comparisons are not commonly provided by manufacturers when factory upgrades are offered, although I have seen some. I appreciate your thanks for the post, but apparently this is a hard audience to convince! ;~)

PR and Beyond!, posted on September 12, 2014 at 05:03:30

wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006

Yes, the source is the press release from David Denyer, but what is his source for that specific piece of information? It wouldn't be the first time a marketing firm reached into its 'second mouth' and whipped out a 'factoid'. Sorry for being so skeptical.

Denyer's 3.7i Press Release (pdf)

RE: PR and Beyond!, posted on September 12, 2014 at 07:26:54

Davey

Your skepticism is perfectly appropriate.

It doesn't really clear up any confusion. The statement is puzzling because you can't make a (easy) change to the crossover network that would alter time-alignment, and phase-alignment and/or phase-coherency are terms/definitions that are misused ubiquitously in the audio industry. So, it's difficult to deduce anything about the 3.7i improvements from that statement.

Actually, what WOULD clear up all the confusion is if they published the 3.7 and 3.7i crossover schematics and identified any other changes made. However, it appears that information will never be forthcoming from Magnepan. If they feel this is IP, they're certainly within their right to keep it secret, but it would sound better if they would just say that. :)

Oh well.

Dave.

RE: PR and Beyond!, posted on September 12, 2014 at 07:27:44
Swamis Cat Audiophile Posts: 272 Location: Illinois Joined: September 7, 2013	Thanks for the link. As an owner of the new model, I can just say they are extremely fussy with toe in compared to my older IIIa's.

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 10:32:36
DrChaos Audiophile Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego Joined: July 13, 2009	That change to crossover was from 3.6 to 3.7. On another forum I read a second or third hand report hat the change was in the tensioning during manufacture if the bass panel. I can't find the post any more. This change would be externally invisible and commensurate with their description of upgrade as low cost on their side unlike the major model upgrades.

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 12:08:10
Bill_k Audiophile Posts: 67 Location: SW Chicago suburb Joined: February 22, 2012	Alright, just choose to believe whatever you want or what makes you happy. I feel like Rodney Dangerfield, "this is a rough crowd!"

Just more speculation IMO!, posted on September 12, 2014 at 15:33:30
Potrzebie	We will not know about the hardware changes, until someone rips their new 3.7i apart, and does an autopsy, which is not likely for years! A tension change on the bass panel would be an expensive rebuild, and not likely. I do not care what Magnepan did, I prefer the 3.6!

RE: Just more speculation IMO!, posted on September 12, 2014 at 17:59:31
ahendler Audiophile Posts: 5151 Location: San Antonio, Texas Joined: January 24, 2003	I also love my 3.6's although unless I had a pair of 3.7's in my home with my own equipment for at least a month I cannot honestly say if the 3.7's are better or worse or just different than my 3.6's. Alan

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 18:50:08

Davey

It's not a rough crowd at all. And who said anything about believing whatever we want or what makes us feel happy? That's just nonsense.
I appreciate you pointing to the press release, but the fact is there's no meaningful information in it.

AFAIK, Magnepan still won't even divulge what the "i" modification is to owners who return their speakers with $$$.
I've said it before, and I still feel this way. This is a product recall...that they charge YOU for. :)

Dave.

RE: Just more speculation IMO!, posted on September 12, 2014 at 19:04:10
Bill_k Audiophile Posts: 67 Location: SW Chicago suburb Joined: February 22, 2012	Alan - you sound like a very thoughtful and reasonable audiophile. I agree with your process, unlike many others that make unfounded conclusive statements about gear that they haven't properly auditioned.

RE: Magnepan 3.7i - what changed?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 19:28:43

Bill_k
Audiophile

Posts: 67
Location: SW Chicago suburb
Joined: February 22, 2012

Dave, you're very welcome. My comment about this being a rough crowd was a bit tongue in cheek. We all have the right to believe whatever we wish, as you have done coming to the conclusion that this is a product recall that they are charging for. I disagree, as there is no actual defect in the original 3.7 which was and remains an exceptional speaker in its own right. The original version received much praise and it still performs as well as it ever did. The fact that the company claims to have found a way to improve it and offers it as an upgrade does not justify categorizing it as a recall in my opinion, which would be the case if the original product was found to be unsafe or defective.

I agree with you that it would be nice if they disclosed the details of what the upgrade consists of, but it is their business and they can operate however they wish. I still think it's better that they offer this change as an upgrade rather than only as a new model but maybe others disagree. That would require existing owners wanting the change to sell theirs and purchase a new model. And for those existing owners that are happy with their speakers and question this upgrade, they can keep enjoying the version that they have.

In any case we can agree to disagree about this, but I appreciate your feedback and respect your perspective. That's what forums like this are for, and we can all learn from each other along the way.

Let's enjoy the tunes, that's what we're all in this for!

All the best,

- Bill

Why?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 19:38:25
slapshot Audiophile Posts: 2248 Joined: January 9, 2006	Perhaps you have posted this before, but I'm curious why you prefer the 3.6 to the newer version.

RE: Why?, posted on September 12, 2014 at 22:02:17

Potrzebie

The 3.6 has lower bass, is warmer, and smoother than the 3.7i IMO.

I heard them in a room similar to mine with LP's.

I know I am in the minority, but then, I feel most audiophiles are wrong, most of the time!

Spend $6000 to find out., posted on September 12, 2014 at 22:06:04
Potrzebie	But IMO you will waste your money.

RE: Why?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 02:16:58
Hasse Audiophile Posts: 414 Joined: June 2, 2000	Not lower but the bass is not as controlled and articulate which could explain why you find it warmer. I had 3.6�s prior to my current 3.7�s, have not Heard the "i".

RE: Why?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 04:00:24
Roger Gustavsson Audiophile Posts: 2054 Location: Huskvarna Joined: February 12, 2010	Hasse, You have not tried to have a peak at the crossover or what the bass/midrange driver look like? I was surprised by the fact that the foil conductor of the 3.7 was that thick, double the foil in the midrange of the 20-series. That would also mean the layout of the foil must be different to the earlier speakers in the 3-series.

This is what I know forsure..., posted on September 13, 2014 at 08:48:39
Mark Man Audiophile Posts: 1079 Location: MN Joined: January 31, 2010	They added "Damping Tape", (AKA Razoring) on the bass section Magnets...see pic...and they tweaked the crossover...(do not know what the hell they did, of course...), but I did the upgrade and I am glad I did...I won't go into details, but I had no shipping, so that was the one of the main reasons I did it... You can do a search under my Moniker and see my "opinion" of upgrade... Thanks Mark

RE: Why?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 10:06:09

Swamis Cat
Audiophile

Posts: 272
Location: Illinois
Joined: September 7, 2013

"I heard them in a room similar to mine with LP's."

Just riffing on this comment...

We all have to trust our own ears, and I in no way dispute the validity of your conclusions for that room, with that set up, that equipment and your preferences.

I will add that any minor difference of an inch or two in positioning or toe in results in a substantial change in sound of the 3.7i, at least in my room. Two inches of additional toe in and I can transform the bass from tight and detailed to much deeper and fuller but a bit flabbier. And depending upon the music, sometimes I prefer one sound other times the other.

That combined with the fact that the recommended set up instructions changed from the 6 to the 7, complicates matters. The sixes have a recommended five to ten degree toe in which recommends time alignment via placing bass closer than the tweeters. The sevens are designed to be aimed with tweets straight on at the listener.

Thus, a comparison of sixes vs sevens in the exact same location is likely to result in different tradeoffs of sound. Comparing them in different set ups introduces a bunch of different tradeoffs which are bound to be quite room specific.

After 500 hours and countless setup experiments I will confidently state that in my room and my gear and my preferences that the 3.7is have more upper and mid bass and less low bass than my 27 year old IIIas. In some set ups that means they sound better, in other set ups they sound worse. In almost no case do both pairs sound great in the same place. It is frustrating to say the least.

For what it is worth....

You state the obvious!, posted on September 13, 2014 at 13:59:34

Potrzebie

You also admit the bass is not as low. What else is different?

I own both the IIIa and 3.6. The IIIa goes lower, and they are not as warm, and not as coherent.

The sound varies in different rooms, and the optimum placement in the same room is not the same for every model of the 3 series.

How do you know they were NOT optimal in both rooms?

You nit pick every post!

Like always YMMV!

RE: You state the obvious!, posted on September 13, 2014 at 15:16:22
Swamis Cat Audiophile Posts: 272 Location: Illinois Joined: September 7, 2013	Sorry to nit pick or state the obvious, I will be more careful in the future. I started by saying I valued your take on the difference and I meant it. I have never compared a 3.6 to a 7. The other major difference I hear is a substantially smoother midrange in the new model. On the negative side, the old IIIa's seem more solid structurally.

RE: Why?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 19:06:49

Potrzebie

When I say warm I really mean "life Like" and "alive". A warm body Vs dead body.

I feel the 3.7i is "colder" than real, acoustic, live music.

Did you change amps in your 3.6 Vs 3.7 comparison?

Do you micro position your Magnepans over a long time? Do you rearrange the furniture and listening spot? What is behind your speakers, glass windows? What is the size and shape of your room? Can you hear the system sound change after an hour or two? All that makes a BIG difference.

Is warm to "you", carmel colored, velvet fog, old style tube sound, overlaying all recordings?

That is NOT my definition.

Some people listen to crap pop music. How can they possibly optimize a system?

Some on this site feel Magnepan can do no wrong. They pray on a rug aimed at White Bear lake three times a day, and want to chop off your head if you criticize their "religion'!

I am not one of those.

I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt, posted on September 14, 2014 at 03:01:41
andyr Manufacturer Posts: 12548 Location: Melbourne Joined: September 2, 2000	.

RE: I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt, posted on September 16, 2014 at 04:45:50
DrChaos Audiophile Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego Joined: July 13, 2009	Yes this looks more like controlling the higher frequency output from the midrange, possibly lower level or better rear dispersion, by putting an absorber near the edge of the midrange,

RE: I don't think that stuck-on tape is "Razoring". nt, posted on October 15, 2014 at 20:45:31
Mechnutt Audiophile Posts: 17 Location: Woodbury MN Joined: October 15, 2014	I found the 3.7i's to have a darker sound than the 3.6's. I hope to upgrade from the 1.6's to the 3.7i's in the next coming year.

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