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Dual subwoofer vs. single

69.170.147.114

Posted on August 27, 2014 at 09:23:00
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
I think I can guess what the advantages are to dual subs rather than just one, but I'd like to hear from those who know more than I do. It can't be simple quantity, because I can dial up way more base from my single Paradigm 10" sub than I need or want. So I'm assuming two dialed to the same combined SPL that a single one is producing would give me more speed and clarity. Am I correct in this assumption?
LineSource

 

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RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 27, 2014 at 13:46:18
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
No. Dual subs are true stereo and help with room issues such as a null at the listening position. That's about it. I run twin subs when I can but the change is small and expensive.

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 27, 2014 at 19:34:54
dumpingground
Audiophile

Posts: 256
Joined: February 23, 2011

dual subs can significantly help with naturally room nulls. See my writeup on using dual subs.

Also see graph showing single sub (green) and dual sub (blue) where the room mode at 43hz (partially) and 60hz is flattened out with the second sub.

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 01:59:20
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
There is some dimensional content that you get with dual subs, Other than that, you might get better bass transients but for the most part you get smoother bass by having stereo subs aas Dumpinngground pointed out.

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 08:09:34
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
I found this interesting read on the subject.

http://kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm
LineSource

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 10:18:42
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
Totally agree. I was surprised by what happened in the soundstage when I took out the subsonic filter (LR4 at 20hz).

I always thought the "bass isn't directional" folks were all wet. My experience was repeatedly showing that stereo bass is important in contributing to imaging.

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 10:23:51
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
Satie, where do you have your subs placed?
LineSource

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 10:54:29
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2054
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
More than two is even better!

http://www.sonicdesign.se/subplace.html

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Pages/WhitePapers.aspx?CategoryID=White%20papers

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 18:24:43
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
I have not been using subs recently as the current placement of the Tympani bass panels results in a massive deep bass plateau at about +6db above midrange at 25-50 hz.

For the short time I used Vandy 2C for sub duties they were placed at the outer edges of the bass panels on the long wall in an arc arrangement. The 8" driver facing forwards and the 10" facing back.

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 28, 2014 at 20:55:40
JBen
Audiophile

Posts: 3082
Location: South FL
Joined: May 18, 2008
Contributor
  Since:
July 26, 2010
Good find, LineSource!

It jives with my own experience also. Just a few weeks ago, after my insistence for a long while, a friend finally acquired the 2nd subwoofer for his (box speakers) system. For over a year, he had kept telling me that it was not needed...but he kept being surprised that I could locate his lone subwoofer. This time, when I dialed in the 2nd subwoofer...his eyes opened wide at what came out of the system. And, like what Dumpinground showed in his chart, the frequency sweeps later showed a much smoother frequency response.

The flip side of the coin is at my home. Since I can't have 2 sub/woofers properly located, I normally use none for music. I do have one, placed smack in the middle between the Maggies, for movies -- and for the occasional music where the deep end is really key. For music, 99% of the time, it is off. The article has it right. Phase (and imaging) information carried down there gets killed by just one subwoofer. It is better to have less bass but correct timings and phasing than more bass but muddled in both clarity and imaging. [here, I am not talking about mechanical intermodulation distortion further up...which one may have to manage also].

As as result, much classical music and many recordings done with few microphones tend to deliver superb soundstaging, 3D imaging and venue ambiance. Furthermore, the degree of instrumental textures that can be heard clearly and alluringly present at the bottom is amazing. They are so palpable as to belie the lower SPL that the Maggies (and other planars) are really delivering at their low extremes. Quite often, the real skills of some recording engineers in the 50s, 60s & 70s shine through loud and clear.

We do have good cases like what Wazoo and others did with their MMGs which, if properly calibrated with the right sub/woofers, can do a terrific job. They mounted the MMGs on top of the subwoofers. The other really good approach is to place and time-align the subwoofer right next to each Maggie. I have to look again but I think that Wazoo is doing something along these lines with his other pair of Maggies, the 3.7. I've also seen this done in other rooms and it makes me wish I had the extra space; one day I will.

I do find interesting that deep bass can convey hall ambiance more completely -- and charmingly. Yet, pursuing it with the wrong setup or adjustments may deliver it at the expense of other SQ attributes. This is one case where I go by personal preferences. My friend loves the hall reverb in all its glory. So, I biased the bass tuneup to this preference of his. Besides, his much more expensive box system still cannot deliver the fuller textural charms that planars usually can.

 

RE: Dual subwoofer vs. single, posted on August 29, 2014 at 12:53:25
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
If money were NO object, maybe a pair would be nice.
But if you have a budget, like most of us, I wonder if you are better off with a single 'better' sub or a pair of 'lesser' subs?

Too much is never enough

 

Anti-Node 8033, posted on August 31, 2014 at 16:20:15
Ozzie
Audiophile

Posts: 3812
Joined: August 1, 2002
Buy one of these little black boxes. Set it up and put the debate to rest.

 

Two is better than one, posted on September 2, 2014 at 10:17:19
BigguyinATL
Manufacturer

Posts: 3475
Joined: April 10, 2002
With the Dipole Planars - I use MMG's - set them at the sides of the room at the "Nulls" at the side of room. much better integration than beside the planar. The reason the two subs always sound better is that the Room modes effects can be minimized.

With my experience the cost is not a concern; that is two $200 Subs is far better than one $500 sub; two $700 Subs better than one $1500 Sub. also note that the subs do not have to match.

You can feed a mono LP signal into each sub - like is usual from an AV receiver (I've never seen one output Stereo - even if it has two Sub Outs)
Or you can send the signals broadband out of your preamp/amp and use the plate amp or a dedicated amplifier with built in crossover. Most the time - even with Planars - better to also High Pass the main speaker signals. Many will argue otherwise here.

Also do not be afraid to experiment with 80Hz and higher crossover points - I just set up a system with 6 MMG-W speakers (three pair) and three subs. The side subs were set up at L&R stereo with a crossover at 125Hz seamlessly. The rear sub (For aesthetic reasons, no front sub was used) was added then to the mix using the traditional 80 Hz crossover point.

Regarding the positioning of the sub woofers - theory and measurements (for whatever they are worth in the AA) say corners should be avoided with slightly off center side and front/back wall placement preferred.

"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius

 

RE: Two is better than one, posted on September 2, 2014 at 12:01:34
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
You might find the article at this link interesting regarding hooking up two subwoofers in stereo.
LineSource

 

RE: Anti-Node 8033, posted on September 2, 2014 at 12:03:45
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
Set up what little black box?
LineSource

 

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