Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share your ideas and experiences.

Return to Planar Speaker Asylum


Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

DWM and CC2

12.106.59.253

Posted on August 1, 2014 at 08:09:55
methylmarty
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Joined: August 3, 2012



So I finally got the DWM that I have been craving for so long for my CC2 center channel. It's all hooked up and sounds much better that running my subs high to fill in that 160hz and below that the CC2 won't do.

However, I had always thought that the DWM summed the two inputs. I now realize that I was incorrect, and the fact is that the DWM is a stereo unit with two separate voice coils. That being said, my current configuration of one input in and then high passed to the CC2 is only using half of the DWM.

I can always run the DWM in series and parallel that with the CC2, but I really like the way that the high pass takes the low end stress off the CC2. So my questions are:

- What will be the effect of running the amp to the DWM in series, and running the high pass outputs in series to the CC2?

- Or, what will be the effect if I run the DWM in series, and only use one high pass output to the CC2?

Note, I am using a Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature for the center, surrounds, and side speakers, so low impedance should not be an issue as long as the load is above 1ohm.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 2, 2014 at 09:11:30
Tubo
Audiophile

Posts: 375
Location: So. California
Joined: June 9, 2004
Why don't you try it? I suspect that with regard to sound, the result will not differ significantly.

I added a DWM to my MMGC a few years ago because, like you, I thought my center channel did not go low enough. It was a definitive improvement!

However, since I use a Coda 10.5 stereo amp to power my center channel, I solved the hookup in a different way. In bridged mode this Coda amp gives me two identical mono outputs to power my MWD/MMG combo.

 

RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 2, 2014 at 15:24:16
methylmarty
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Joined: August 3, 2012
I was thinking of just trying it... the series connection on the DWM shouldn't be an issue, actually it would probably just increase impedance to around 8 ohms which is safe. It's the series connected high pass that worries me. I've been trying to work this out in my head, but without schematics it is all just an assumption. Now that I've had a while to mull it over, a single high pass out should still work regardless of the series input on the DWM, I'm just wondering if wiring the high pass outs in series will work, and if it will increase the output by summing 2 "channels" (even though it is really just one channel).

I just don't want to blow up my stuff :P

 

RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 3, 2014 at 01:22:07
Mart
Bored Member

Posts: 31273
Location: upstate NY
Joined: June 6, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
June 25, 2000
The sole crucial issue I have with wiring a big capacitor high-pass filter in series with a CC2 is how big capacitors corrupt treble.   Iff you can bypass that DMW's capacitor to feed your CC2's tweeter & its higher-pass filter, then I'm on board, but that would require schematics.


... just my 2¢
moderate Mart

Planar Asylum

where speakers are thin & music isn't

 

RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 3, 2014 at 02:34:53
Mart
Bored Member

Posts: 31273
Location: upstate NY
Joined: June 6, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
June 25, 2000



dah'uh ... you were talking series wiring of your bass panels.

The above should work. The other white wire looks like it would mess the intended XO.

Or, go conventional & just use one set of jacks.




PS: Iff impedance isn't an issue, & you require more real bass, wiring the isobaric DWM woofer panels in parallel (2Ω) for 6dB boost (not bass extension).




... just my 2¢
moderate Mart

Planar Asylum

where speakers are thin & music isn't

 

RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 3, 2014 at 09:49:41
methylmarty
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Joined: August 3, 2012
Mart, you are the man. I was hoping I'd catch your attention with this thread.

I am interested to hear this proposed 6db boost. Wiring the two DWM inputs in parallel shouldn't bother my Sunfire Sig, but then what would using the high pass for the CC2 do to the total impedance? I remember Wendell (I think it was him, or maybe Josh) saying at some point that a 4 ohm DWM with a 4 ohm CC2 wired through the high pass will present a 4 ohm load. So now with the 2 ohm DWM and the 4 ohm CC2, am I raising the total load above 2 ohms? I am still not sure how the 4 ohm combo that was mentioned works... My thought is it is either in series for 8 ohms or parallel for 2.

 

RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 3, 2014 at 13:38:24
Mart
Bored Member

Posts: 31273
Location: upstate NY
Joined: June 6, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
June 25, 2000
F.W.I.W., It's not uncommon for speaker manufacturers to use raw drivers of dissimilar nominal impedances.   That's also why some low-end manufacturers in the past (don't recall names) have made 2 different speaker models where the upgraded version merely had a second identical woofer.

You should see what their impedance curves even when the raw drivers supposedly match (or a conventional dome/cone driver for that matter).   Then, there's the case of the Magnepan's XOs.   Although their driver impedances are virtually purely resistive loads, the capacitors & inductors add to the total impedance loads that the amplifier sees.

In simple passive parallel XOs, what matters is what's downstream impedance of the (caps) capacitors & inductor coils (chokes).



    E.G.: The DWM bass panels.   Since they're designed to accommodate stereo satellite speakers as in the Mini Maggie System, one deduces that each DWM bass panel diaphragm voice-coil has its own inductor (otherwise it wouldn't work).   So, if you only wire one panel for a 4Ω load, you have one internal inductor (~3.2mH) to get a 200Hz XO as intended.   If you wire 2 panels in series for 8Ω, you also have two stock inductors in series (effective ~6.4mH) to still get the 200Hz XO (no change).   [BTW, same S.P.L. as a single panel.   Why do some prefer it?   Amplifiers "stable" with a 4Ω load, still function more linearly at 8Ω ... which in the case of woofers usually translates into bass extension, most audibly.]   If you wire the 2 panels in parallel for 2Ω nominal impedance, you still have one inductor per voice coil at the same 200Hz XO (... not parallel inductors ~1.6mH inductance seeing the 2Ω for the exact same 200Hz XO as one might presume.   FWIW, it's a schematic issue.   Albeit, in this case, seemingly pure semantics to the lay person).   Sidebar concluded.


In the case of the high-pass filter feeding your CC2 (to attenuate THD riddled resonances occurring during acoustic low-frequency roll-off that vibrate the entire diaphragm which is why Maggie bass panels have tuning dot dampers), the one you had made the deduced internal XO go all wonky.   It didn't just simply put 2 stock internal caps in series (which is tricky stability issue in of itself), to effective half the capacitance to further attenuate the CC2's mid-bass lowest-frequencies by a full octave to create a lull.   It truly went all wonky instead!



... just my 2¢
moderate Mart

Planar Asylum

where speakers are thin & music isn't

 

RE: DWM and CC2, posted on August 3, 2014 at 21:37:35
Mart
Bored Member

Posts: 31273
Location: upstate NY
Joined: June 6, 2001
Contributor
  Since:
June 25, 2000

oops, this configuration attenuates the CC2 by 6dB.
... just my 2¢

moderate Mart

Planar Asylum

where speakers are thin & music isn't

 

So, how is it working ???, posted on August 17, 2014 at 17:54:06
What configuration did you end up with and how do you like it ?

TIA

 

RE: So, how is it working ???, posted on August 18, 2014 at 06:25:14
methylmarty
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Joined: August 3, 2012
Well I haven't had time to test more that two options due to dividing my attention between my newborn, work, and the hideous subframe design on my Jag.

However, the one method I tried is not doing it for me. I paralleled the inputs from the single amp channel and ran the CC2 from the left high pass only (which, as anticipated was handled with ease by the Sunfire Sig). This setup actually has too much bass output, and what I am perceiving as a separate problem, which I cannot really verify without schematics, but as I perceive it:

The left channel of the DWM is crossed at 200hz low pass due to me using the high pass on that side. However, the right side seems to be extending to the full 4khz that the DWM of which the DWM is capable due to not using the high pass. At least that's what it sounds like is happening.

My original setup had only the left side in use: amp in left, high pass left to CC2. The bass was slightly low for my taste, but it was clear and in all likelihood matched in output with the CC2. I only started complaining when I found out that the inputs weren't summed, because I cannot stand to see this thing not utilized to its full potential.

Now, however, it sounds like the DWM is overlapping the CC2 in the 200hz-4khz range. Since the CC2 is clearly better at doing this, the lower registers sound a bit unnatural and bloated.

When I get a chance I will set it up in series and see what happens. On a brighter note, I did modify some frame rails so the DWM and CC2 match my Tympani IVa mains. I just took the clamp off yesterday so I will post pictures when I get home from work.

 

RE: So, how is it working ???, posted on August 18, 2014 at 10:31:14
I think I have the answer to your problem. Here is what you will need in total.

- 4 channels of amplification connected to your center feed
- 2 CC2's, CC3's or CCR's
- 2 MCC2's
- 2 DWMs

Place a CC2 above and below your display.
Place a MCC2 on each side of your display.
Place both DWMs below your display.

Wire each CC2 and MCC2 to it's own DWM channel.

You should have a super Tri/Quad-Center with plenty with bass.

At least this is what I have been considering =).

 

Wiring options from Magnepan, posted on August 18, 2014 at 11:02:44
Here are some wiring options from Magnepan.

 

RE: So, how is it working ???, posted on August 18, 2014 at 11:32:57
methylmarty
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Joined: August 3, 2012
I would use 4 CCRs instead of the MC2s. And then I'd wake up I'm sure.

 

RE: So, how is it working ???, posted on August 19, 2014 at 14:21:36
I wonder how 2 CCx's would sound mounted vertically ???

 

RE: So, how is it working ???, posted on August 19, 2014 at 15:52:25
methylmarty
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Location: NJ
Joined: August 3, 2012
My guess is pretty good, as long as it is for this "quad center" setup. The CC series is curved to reach several chairs horizontally when mounted normally, so when mounted vertically in a tri (or quad) center setup, I reckon it will cater well to guests of extreme height differences. Or a multi-level theater, for a less silly concept.

If mounted centrally on the wall, I don't think the CC speakers are curved quite enough to cause any anomalies due to floor and ceiling reflections, given a room of average or greater height.

Of course you will need custom stands, but you're talking to a guy who has all but the L and R channels mounted to the ceiling.

 

Page processed in 0.029 seconds.