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Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse

69.170.147.114
Posted on July 30, 2014 at 07:33:43
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 I found these fuses after a long Internet search. Much less expensive than HiFiTuning fuses. I've put them in my MMGs, which are still breaking in. I'll swap them out for the stockers in a few weeks to see what the difference is.

http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/16482
LineSource

 

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RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 08:21:24
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2058
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 I hope you chosed the fast blow ones. Slow blow will not protect the tweeters.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 09:24:06
DavidJames
Audiophile

Posts: 184
Joined: January 13, 2004
 If a fuse has any impact on the sound it's defective.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 09:36:40
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 So.....cheap consumer interconnects and lamp wire for speakers sound the same as high end cables?
LineSource

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 09:39:23
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Yes, fast blow, but I went with 4 amp since the manual says you can go as high as that.
LineSource

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 11:16:26
Davey
 You analogy is poor.

"High end cables" are 'designed' to sound differently from one another. The result may be better, or may be worse, but they're not a product that's designed and/or sold as a so-called legitimate safety device.

Dave.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 11:32:53
LineSource
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Iowa
Joined: July 29, 2014
 Safety device or not, the fuse in all Magnepan speakers are in the direct path of all the current going to their tweeters. The fuses Magnepan supplies with their speakers use a cheap tiny piece of tin as a conductor. Now I haven't done a serious A/B listening session to see if I can hear the difference yet, but there are many who have and report that it can have a significant impact on the sound, for the better. Some have bypassed the fuse all together. I'm not willing to do that quite yet on speakers I plan on returning to Magnepan to trade up from, so I thought I'd give these ceramic encased silver fuses a try. After all, why would I invest in good quality speaker cables only to choke down the signal at the fuse?
LineSource

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 13:24:40
Davey
 It's highly questionable whether a fuse, any fuse, will provide sufficient protection to the ribbon tweeter in a Magnepan speaker. They just don't act fast enough to prevent significant deflection of the ribbon in the event of an amplifier failure or excessive out-of-band information. If those fancy fuses make you feel better then I guess they're providing a subjective safety aspect, but if you have an amplifier that protects itself (and the load) well then you could forego the fuses altogether.

Dave.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 13:42:18
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2058
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 LineSource wrote:

"The fuses Magnepan supplies with their speakers use a cheap tiny piece of tin as a conductor."

This is true for any fuse. Fuseholders can be a source of distorsion. Gold- or silverplated fuses is of no help if the fuseholder itself is nickelplated. You can use fuses with soldertags, far cheaper and less contact points.

 

Whoa, dude, you stepped in it (ha ha)!, posted on July 30, 2014 at 13:51:59
MaggiesAndCats
Audiophile

Posts: 697
Joined: August 31, 2009
Contributor
  Since: July 16, 2010
 The high end fuse discussion really gets folks fired up. I've tried them and for the most part liked the results, but of course that was expectation bias, or I cleaned the fuse holders in the process of changing the fuses, or *insert rational reason here*. Bottom line, if you like 'em it doesn't matter. :)

Regards,

Steve

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 14:49:59
DavidJames
Audiophile

Posts: 184
Joined: January 13, 2004
 If a cable makes it sound different it's defective ;)

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 15:17:30
JLindborg
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: Uppsala
Joined: April 26, 2010
 DavidJames.
I will fully indulge You in this but I strongly feel that You are trying to raise a topic.
You are right in most accounts but one can not explicitly say that a single strand of 2 Gauge wire will have the same electrical capability as a 24 Gauge wire in ALL frequencies at high wattage.
That is purely unscientific.

But using the same sum of Gauge... One could ask...
I have seen flat ones with close proximity of the other polarity for the benefit of high dampening, but that's all.
The rest is just text talk.

Cheers!


The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 16:04:16
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Neither will fast ones, especially if you have true ribbon tweeters. From Rod Elliott.
BTW, ceramic fuses are designed to be used in potentially explosive environments but the fusible element is the same as glass. So FWIW I would expect a silver fuse in glass would sound better than a silver fuse in ceramic since the dielectric constant around the conductor is much lower.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

Absolutely, posted on July 30, 2014 at 16:14:47
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 If you want to improve the sound first get rid of the fuse holders. Use 3AG fuses with pigtails and solder them across the leads to the holder. Inconvenient when they blow but they shouldn't be blowing anyway.




"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

You wrote: "If a fuse has any impact on the sound it's defective." ..., posted on July 30, 2014 at 16:54:28
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 I suggest you are not thinking here - merely being logical. :-)) It's easy to prove to yourself whether a fuse does - or does not - have a sonic impact ... simply buy another (normal glass) fuse which is, say, 10 or 20 times the rating that your normal fuse ... and see if you can hear any difference.

This is a good test for you to do, given you are biased to think there will be no difference ... unlike someone who automatically would assume it's better, just because it's a change.

Me, I use ceramic fuses (not that I have any now in my Maggies) as the guy behind the counter at RS Components told me, many years ago, that the coppers were buying them for their radar guns, as they gave a steadier reading than 'normal' glass-bodied fuses. If it's good enough for the fuzz ... it's good enough for my hifi system, was my reasoning! :-))

Regards,

Andy

 

I have no fuses in my MMGs or 3.7s. :-), posted on July 30, 2014 at 18:02:53
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006
 My MMGs have been without fuses practically since I got them over 10 years ago. I've been walking the rope without a safety net with my 3.7s for about a year. The protection provided by the fuses is questionable when it comes to the ribbons and they aren't tough to replace if I ever melt one. I'm not too worried about that anyway. Sonically speaking (and this is one of the very few places where a fuse may impact sonics), there's no fuse better than no fuse at all (or the fuse holder, or...). ;-)

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on July 30, 2014 at 22:20:23
Davey
 If cable A sounds different than cable B which one is defective? :)

Dave.

 

Would you happen to have a source for a 3 AMP similar fuse w wire at each end ?, posted on July 31, 2014 at 02:58:29
Carl G
Audiophile

Posts: 710
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Was not able to find a 3 amp fuse that is 3A size.... for the maggies... Thanks

 

RE: Would you happen to have a source for a 3 AMP similar fuse w wire at each end ?, posted on July 31, 2014 at 05:52:52
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Try Mouser or Digi-key and look for Littelfuse Series 318. (Littelfuse Part #0318003).



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

agree, posted on July 31, 2014 at 11:00:20
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 It's kind of like taking (2) ten-foot fire engine hoses and coupling them with a single, one foot garden hose.

But what can you do? Manufacturers are most likely obligated to do so by their insurance underwriters.









 

RE: You wrote: "it's easy to prove to yourself whether a fuse does - or does not - have a sonic impact." ..., posted on July 31, 2014 at 13:52:17
DavidJames
Audiophile

Posts: 184
Joined: January 13, 2004
 I stand by my comment. I never said a fuse couldn't change the sound, so I don't need to prove it to myself. I said if it did, it was defective. Now, I don't mean defective in the sense it wasn't working properly. I mean it's job is not to alter the sound, it's job is to blow under the defined circumstances. So if it's doing anything other then it's job, it's defective.

 

I also do not fuse my Magnepans!, posted on August 1, 2014 at 00:36:26
Potzrebie
 I have had the sound quality go south with fuses that test good.

I discovered this with MG IIa's back in the late 70's, and after replacing the fuses with a shorting bar, never looked back. Noticeable clearer mids and high frequencies without fuses.

The mid range and tweeters are robust, provided the amplifier is not driven into clipping, or you do not playback at insane volumes (peaks way above 95 dB).

I play loud sometimes, but have only blown the fuses twice (when I drove my amp into hard clipping, and when I used a bridged 800 w/c amp to show off) since the 70's.

But beware, accidents and amp failure can happen!

 

Nor do I., posted on August 1, 2014 at 12:09:08
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7729
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 Completely bypassed the fuse/holder altogether; wire-to-wire.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on August 14, 2014 at 14:36:25
Tympani
Audiophile

Posts: 236
Joined: July 24, 2001
 I have found that bypassing the fuse, although a tad "cleaner", provides a high frequency tilt that is unpleasant in my Maggie 20's. So I much prefer the sound of a "quality" fuse in. It sounds like Magnepan "voiced" the speaker with a fuse in-line. On the other hand, I do not like the effect of the tweeter resistor.

I agree with Neolith - I have never actually blown a tweeter fuse, but I've replaced many an edgy tweeter that's been stressed out.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on August 14, 2014 at 15:14:06
Norman M
 "It's highly questionable whether a fuse, any fuse, will provide sufficient protection to the ribbon tweeter in a Magnepan speaker."

Over the years having blown many of the 2.5 amp 'tweeter' fuses in my Tympani IV-A, and not experiencing any ribbon failure, I'm willing to question it. :-)

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on August 14, 2014 at 21:52:13
Davey
 I suspect you're blowing those from gradual heating with nominally loud music playing under normal conditions. I don't really think the tweeter would be in danger from that.

I'm talking about amplifier failures or some other event that might manage to produce a pulsive signal that could deflect the tweeter and compromise it mechanically but not thermally before a fuse element could heat enough to open.

Cheers,

Dave.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on August 15, 2014 at 08:04:36
Norman M
 I'm sorry, but that's not correct. Most, if not all the times I blow fuses have been when I inadvertently switched into a source that's been set to play at a too high volume level. If not having been protected by fuses, I think I might have had to replace the ribbons many times over.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on August 15, 2014 at 09:51:15
Davey
 Good anecdote. You could be correct, but I suspect the tweeter would have survived just fine in those instances. Unless you're saying the actual switching itself generated some sort of transient? If that's the case, obviously you should get in the habit of reducing the volume to minimum when switching sources.

Switching to a higher level source and then acting quickly to turn down the volume is more like the gradual heating I noted vice a short transient.

Regardless, an installed fuse would, by definition, provide more protection than no fuse.......all other things being equal. But whether it would actually prevent a failure of the ribbon transducer itself is still a gray area...IMHO.

Cheers,

Dave.

 

RE: Acme Audio Silver Ceramic Fuse, posted on August 15, 2014 at 10:30:47
Norman M
 Switching doesn't produce transients in my rig. If it did, causing fuses to blow, it would happen nearly all the time and it wouldn't matter if the next source was at a different level, be it higher or lower. Although I try to do my best in lowering volume settings before switching, in the heat of the moment I forget myself. Very often it's when I'm attempting an instantaneous A/B comparison between two sources, (and even though I'm very aware that I'd be making the two levels identical as is possible for it to be of any significance).

 

I am at the point now, I want to bypass..., posted on August 15, 2014 at 11:55:32
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
 The Fuse and fuse holder...after living with the 3.7's for the past 11 months and pushing them as hard as I can in a condo...I see no need for them in the signal path...

When I had an HT set-up, I owned CC1 hooked up to EAD PowerMaster 2000, could not keep fuses in that at all...any volume over 90 dB's they were toast...I replaced the CC1 with a pair of MMG's for center channel, (20 times better than the CC1)...never had another issue...

FYI, if anybody can chime in, (Waz, Grant, Jben...), on how and what to use for the Bypass that would be greatly appreciated, I have a Engineer friend who is going to the soldering for me...I would prefer if this took place behind the faceplate...(Waz, I know you have post pictures of this, but I currently can't find them in a search)

Thanks
Mark


 

piece of cake, posted on August 15, 2014 at 13:46:48
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 4062
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006
 I'm at work (Friday is one of my 3 days ;-), so I haven't access to any photos right now. Regardless, your engineer friend won't have the slightest bit of trouble with it as it's very obvious. The only gotcha is the left speaker (with tweeter-in positioning) - in mine, there was a wire that wouldn't reach the binding post after removing it from the fuse (or jumper/resistor connection).

Send me a message and I'll email whatever you need to you.

See the link below for an old photo. I'm done experimenting with resistors and chokes...and no longer using the wire nuts. The photo in the link below is the dreaded left speaker. One of these days, I'm removing the socks and checking out the crossovers. The only reason why I haven't done it yet is that those staples are tedious and I don't want to be without my speakers for a few days. I've entered the room with the intention of digging into them, but I end up listening to music instead. :-)

 

Thanks Waz...will do...NT..., posted on August 15, 2014 at 14:15:11
Mark Man
Audiophile

Posts: 1079
Location: MN
Joined: January 31, 2010
 .

 

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