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MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III

97.100.157.113
Posted on October 30, 2009 at 09:28:13
jeffer
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: space coast, Fla
Joined: August 13, 2006
 Hi all,
What are my chances of finding a set of Tympani III mid/ tweeter screens?
I have the bass panels-- but no mid/tweet screens.
Also, i have in storage a set of Maggie 1D's and Tympani IV's.

If I were to restore one of these sets-- which should I choose?
Thx, jpb

 

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IMO, the T-IVs ... as they have a true-ribbon. :-)) nt, posted on October 30, 2009 at 15:01:19
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12551
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 .

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on October 31, 2009 at 12:30:56
monk1


 
Over the past decade or so, I've seen Tympani III mid/tweeter panels (usually sold as Tympani II) only a couple of times. I think the Tympani III is already a very rare speaker to begin with (as with all Tymps), but finding one that has separated mid/tweeter panels and a owner willing to sell would be a challenge.

When I purchased my T-1D's in the late 90's, I was also offered a set of T-IV from the same vendor. I chose the former mainly based on slightly lower cost and that I was more familiar with its sonic qualities from previous listening experiences. The T-IV's ribbon tweeter may offer a slightly better hf extension but the push-pull tweeter in the T-1D is no slouch either, and very capable of delivering excellent tonal balance as a result of seamless blending with the bass drivers.

Which one you would prefer to listen to in the long run would probably boil down to subjective preferences. Since you already have both speakers in storage, you are in the better position to compare them, assuming both are still working properly. There are several Tympani owners that frequent this forum and I do not get a sense there is any distinct preference for one over the other. Both speakers are well admired for their overall sonic qualities which are mostly positive.

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on November 2, 2009 at 19:14:25
jeffer
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: space coast, Fla
Joined: August 13, 2006
 Thanks for the info !
Both my 1D's and IV 's-need restoration and a person has been asking me to sell him my IV's.
Called Magnepan and I am thinking of using proceeds from sale of the IV's to help pay for resto of the 1D's.Shipping and boxes are a killer tho........

 

Choose the MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI IV, posted on November 6, 2009 at 16:16:30
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 First are you handy as a DIY guy?

Having so many parts available creates some opportunities many of us would only dream of.

E.g.
doubling up the bass panels into push pull configuration.
Creating two pairs of "isobaric" bass panels.

Doubling up the midrange panels into push pull (assuming you have matching pairs of mid drivers)

As to the question at hand,
I would easily take the IV since its true ribbon is simply a tremendous transducer.

My main nit with the Tympani series is the slightly thick midrange. It really should have been done as push - pull. When my Tympani IV midrange broke, I replaced it with a line source of BG Neo 8 drivers. Their BG Radia RD50 are a good acoustic and electrical match for the Tympani mids and easily outdo them. The RD75 has better power handling and can go down further, it can be crossed over at 200 Hz.

If you want to use a Radia driver as mid and tweeter you can take the BG RD-75 and match it with any of the Tympani bass panels you have. Just note that the Radia series do not do extended highs like the maggie ribbons. But their midrange is superb, and lower treble is very good.

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on December 26, 2010 at 03:34:10
Sorscha
Industry Professional

Posts: 18
Location: Holland
Joined: December 16, 2010
 "Over the past decade or so, I've seen Tympani III mid/tweeter panels (usually sold as Tympani II) only a couple of times. I think the Tympani III is already a very rare speaker to begin with (as with all Tymps), but finding one that has separated mid/tweeter panels and a owner willing to sell would be a challenge. "

You are quite right here to my believe. As I own these, I like the your last sentence. And you are very right in that "we will never part".
The Tympani III series is 8ohms ... I think it is the only one of the Tympani range with 8ohms. There was also a special version which could go seriously loud. As I bought my IIIa (mid and tweeter panels) ages ago in disgusting condition (as dead as can be), I decided not to rewire to original, but to the high-spl version. .. Man ..... :) Why? The tweeters were (and still are) in excellent condition. It actually blends so perfectly with the rest of the panels since it is all wire on foil. I had quasi-ribbon panels but I didn't like them at all with the Tympani.

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on December 26, 2010 at 06:19:42
Roger Gustavsson


 
Hi Sorscha,

I have the Tympani IIIa with the Bass Speakers, 8 panels. Never heard about a high SPL version. What is it?

My Tympani are in bad shape, more so the bass drivers with the copper wiring. The wiring on the mids are still intact. The tweeters have been opened/split and I wanted to re-use the perforated sheet metal and the magnets. I made new specers, attached new and thinner Mylar, and cut 10 m long aluminium foli conductors but then I never finished them....

All drivers have a bad finish! Surpricingly bad for such an expensive product. The Mylar have been mended with tape in some places and the wiring is not very neat.

I have not used them for many years. As far as I can remember, their bass and mid were great. I did not like the diffuse soundstaging, the "big mouth" on voices. I cut down my system, two 1 m wide panels with all drivers line-uped close together. Still the tweeters were not up to the rest of speakers. Had plans to combine the bass drivers with a narrow Martin Logan ELS. Did not like the sound of the ML.

Contacted Magnepan about a rebuild. Costly with the shipping from Europe and the back! I was only going to send them the raw panels, the perforeted sheet metal with the magnets. They resisted any changes! They only rebuild them to the original shape. I think some modifications can be made to make them better than new. Sure, it would have been fun to use the flat wire of the MG-1.7 and make the bass diaphragms slighty wider. The mid could be made narrower, crossing over at a lower frequency to some updated single ended tweeters. The push-pull ones are not to my liking.

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on December 26, 2010 at 06:47:11
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I wouldn't change the dimensions of the drivers. They're carefully tensions and partitioned to spread the bass resonances and if you change the dimensions the frequency response will go off.

Putting in foil conductors is a great plan, though, no more trouble than replacing the original wires which you have to do anyway and as you say they'll sound more like the 1.7's. However, did the III's have copper wire? If so, you'll have to use copper foil, or if you use aluminum foil find a way to increase the mass to match the original so you don't throw the bass resonance frequency off.

I'd rebuild the bass panels and use them below 80 Hz, then use one of the smaller models for the mids and highs so you don't get the wide mouth effect.

OTOH, they're very easy to repair yourself. Magnepan sells repair kits that wouldn't cost much to ship from the states. See Peter Gunn's excellent Magnestand site for how-to's.

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on December 26, 2010 at 07:41:19
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 Agree with Satie, you have some great options here. If you need the money to finance your upgrade, though, or don't have the time for all that DIY'ing, I'd sell the 1-D's rather than the IV's, as much as I love my 1-D's the IV's had a better tweeter. You can also do Satie's Neo-8 mod, it isn't that expensive and by upgrading the midrange -- the weak point of the IV -- it will transform the IV into a real contender even by today's standards. I think you could also sell your III bass panels, since as someone pointed out you're unlikely to come across the mid/tweeter panels, you're more likely to find someone who wants to add them to their existing system. Or you could combine them with the IV woofers for isobaric goodness or super low extension.

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on December 26, 2010 at 08:49:24
Roger Gustavsson


 
Yes, I know that changing the dimensions of the diaphragm will have influence of the performance. You can play with some parameters, that is what Magnepan have been doing.

Sure, we could just copy a MG-2.5 bass panel. Wider diaphragm (10 inches), two more magnets, aluminium wire etc. I wonder if Magnepan could be persuaded!

My plan was to add four more magnets (taken from the mids) to each bass panel. The width of the panel goes up from 229 mm (9 inches) to 275 mm. That lowers the resonant frequency but slightly reducing the mass of the wires will get it up to the original frequency. The distance between the magnets and the diaphragm can also be varied, as there is less mass you can increase that distance slightly. Yes, I know that the flat wire used in the MG-1.7 is of less mass than the copper wiring of my Tympani Bass Speakers. So is the wire that Magnepan want to send me too! They wanted sell me AWG22 (0.644 mm) aluminium wire. That would set off the original response very much. Round or flat wire, mass is still the same. MG-1.7 still have the same mass of wires. The Bass Speakers have about 85 gram of copper wire on each diaphragm. The impedance/resistance is 4 Ohm for each driver. Going for wider driver it could be reduced to about 63-70 gram (equal to 0.8-0.85 mm aluminium wire). The impedance would be 2.5-2.2 Ohm for ech driver, it woulld keep the efficiency up. The thickness of the spacers could be increased, from 1/8 inch (3.175 mm) to 3.5 mm. The tensioning could be made adjustable. Many, many hours of work! I doubt it is worth it. Just think you will have to glue 46 m of wire to each driver and there are four. Then you need to go ahead with the mids and tweeters....

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on December 26, 2010 at 11:54:38
josh358
Industry Professional

Posts: 12332
Joined: February 9, 2010
 I've never rebuilt drivers myself, so I'm not sure how much time it takes, but I gather from what I've read here that relaying the wires isn't that much work (though of course you have more panels to work with). Whereas all those mods would be, it would almost be like building a planar from scratch . . . which is why if it were me, I think I'd just go with the aluminum foil upgrade and find another way to add mass and bring the resonance back down. Perfect being the enemy of good and all that.

AFAIK, Magnepan isn't interested in upgrading their old models, but maybe if you asked them they'd sell you the foil rather than the aluminum wire? Since they don't have the original material anyway. If they don't want to cooperate, I was wondering if the guy who runs the Apogee Acoustics site in Australia might be interested in selling Maggie upgrade supplies. He already sells ribbon supplies for Apogees, so he has the right materials and knowledge, and Maggie upgrade kits would increase the size of his potential market. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the foil thickness is, whether it's something that's readily available or something that you have to order in one ton spools . . .

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on October 27, 2012 at 14:58:55
Sorscha
Industry Professional

Posts: 18
Location: Holland
Joined: December 16, 2010
 Hello Roger,

When I rewired mine, together with the dutch importer, he (Dr. Tan) offered me two choices. The first one was the normal wiring, ak the single wire. The other option was to use double wiring for all the panels except the tweeters. When I asked what the difference was his answer was that I had to prepare for a whole new experience with the right (read: enough power) amplifiers and setup.
I run them with electrocompaniet power amplifiers. I never bi-amp the mid and high panels, I just don't like the result. The lower panels are driven separate with an ampliwire 75 and a 100. Another 75 for the mid/high. This gives enough reserve to present a drumkit almost live (!) A subwoofer cannot do what these screens can. Very difficult to describe, man must feel it.
The sources are Albums (turntable), Single take recordings on reel to reel, and so now and then a cd. Nothing has beaten the tape ... yet.

I shall have to miss them for a while since my lady cat has hung in one set of low panels, ripping the wire from the screen but lucky me, leaving the mylar intact. So I think I need some wire to redo two panels. I also have a 1d system awaiting a rewire. Wire's all gone but the foils are all fine.
I think it's time for me to do something :-)

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on October 29, 2012 at 04:11:05
Roger Gustavsson
Audiophile

Posts: 2058
Location: Huskvarna
Joined: February 12, 2010
 Hi Sorscha,

What do you mean by double wiring? I would like to discuss the Tympani. Please, send me an E-Mail, roger.gustavsson@jonkoping.se

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on July 8, 2014 at 20:04:59
jeffer
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: space coast, Fla
Joined: August 13, 2006
 LOL---as fate would have it---I now have a set of Tympani III mid /tweeter panels and still have the I's........ Spoke to Magnepan today for a rebuild kit. Have studied youtube tutorial before---so sleeves rolled up. jeffer

 

RE: MAGNEPLANAR TYMPANI III, posted on July 9, 2014 at 14:38:40
Satie
Audiophile

Posts: 5426
Joined: July 6, 2002
 Good luck with the repair project.

Please post some pics as you go along.

 

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