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Trombone musings

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Posted on August 6, 2017 at 19:08:29
Tweaker456
 While I'll never be a big trombone fan I thought, since I have even more time on my hands than usual because of a pulled muscle, I thought I'd look for trombone players with exceptional "articulation". Boy oh boy did I come up with one, IMO. Check this guy out. I'm sure many of you with your encyclopedic knowledge and vast listening experience way beyond mine already know him. I've heard the name. I have pretty much completely ignored this instrument. Trombone, like bass is often played sloppily and gotten away with, so to speak. Not this guy.

 

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RE: Trombone musings, posted on August 7, 2017 at 07:34:54
suretyguy
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Posts: 3022
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001
 He's good, but have you listened to JJ Johnson, who practically invented the modern trombone in jazz? He was also an excellent composer and arranger. Try his Concepts in Blue which is a great showcase for both talents. Then there is Curtis Fuller with a fair number of recordings under his own name and as a sideman with the Jazztet and Art Blakey. One of my favorites is Jimmy Knepper who managed to survive a lengthy on and off tenure with Charles Mingus and has a number of releases as leader. And there is Bob Brookmeyer, who used a valve trombone, and played with many of the greats including Gerry Mulligan, Clark Terry, Al Cohn, Stan Getz, Jimmy Giuffre among others. He was also a formidable piano player: Try The Dual Role of Bob Brookmeyer and/or Holiday: Bob Brookmeyer Plays Piano. And he was one of the all time great big band arrangers, including work for Gerry Mulligan's Concert Jazz Band and the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Vanguard Jazz Orchestra as well as numerous big band sessions under his own name. He was also a mentor to Maria Schneider.

I've gone on at some length about Brookmeyer, because I think he's another too often overlooked jazz figure.

 

RE: Trombone musings, posted on August 7, 2017 at 08:04:43
Tweaker456
 Thanks for the suggestions. Just listened to 3 cuts from Concepts in Blue. Good music. Terry is pretty impressive.

 

Very good., posted on August 7, 2017 at 08:15:41
Mike K
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 They guy has the chops, to be sure.

You might also want to check out: Carl Fontana, Bill Watrous, Urbie
Green, Slide Hampton and Al Grey.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

Frank Rosolino, posted on August 7, 2017 at 08:23:10
D Harvey
Manufacturer

Posts: 5563
Location: SE Michigan
Joined: May 30, 2001
 I'm surprised no mention of Frank here...the favorite of many trombone players I've known. Jay Anderson is a lot of fun to listen to as well.

dh

 

RE: Frank Rosolino, posted on August 7, 2017 at 10:24:40
suretyguy
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Posts: 3022
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Yes, he was one of those who came immediately to mind...and then I forgot him as I composed my earlier post.

 

RE: Frank Rosolino, posted on August 7, 2017 at 10:57:31
GEO
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  Since: September 9, 2000
 You beat me to it.... a monster trombone player. A guy that made one or two records then seemed to disappear was a guy named Mark Nightingale.

 

Knepper, posted on August 7, 2017 at 11:12:58
Rick W
 I was fortunate to play with Knepper on a number of gigs, including sitting next to him on a lotta gigs with Lee Konitz's nonet. In addition to his great playing, the guy had an encyclopedic knowledge of jazz, and countless stories.

I vividly remember an intermission at another gig both Knepper and my long-time pal Sal Nistico were on. I listened to a rap they had about scales to use when playing specific tunes. Its no wonder that I had so many instances where I'd play a solo I thought was pretty good and one of those guys' solos would be after mine and I'd say to myself "Damn, so that's what the changes to this tune are really about."

 

RE: Knepper, posted on August 7, 2017 at 13:16:04
suretyguy
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Posts: 3022
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Sal Nistico! I'm ancient enough to have seen him with the Mangione brothers group at Muhlenberg College in Allentown, PA, somewhere around 1960 or so. Also with Woody Herman's great band from the early 1960s at a concert in a barn-literally-somewhere near New Hope, PA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he also do some of the arrangements for Herman's band? And for other bands?

 

RE: Trombone: Bill Watrous, posted on August 7, 2017 at 14:01:20
hifitommy
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Location: canyon country califiornia, orig from buffalo ny
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 now there is a trombonist that is NOT sloppy. his own records are a good showcase for him but my favorite is the Patrick Williams NY band-10th avenue.
https://www.discogs.com/Patrick-Williams-New-York-Band-10th-Avenue/release/2026007

i couldn't find it on YT but the cut 'jive samba' is to die for. there is also a bass trombone on the cut that is quintessential.

the cut Shenandoah on this next Watrous album can bring tears to your eyes.
https://www.discogs.com/Bill-Watrous-With-Patrick-Williams-And-His-Orchestra-Someplace-Else/release/1457716


...regards...tr

 

RE: Trombone: Bill Watrous, posted on August 7, 2017 at 14:25:45
Tweaker456
 I've begun to delve in to this subject a bit. Bob McChesney is still on top so far. I was going out with a cousin of Bill Watrous's for a short while way way back in the day. A long time ago or the blink of an eye. Glad you liked the Barney Kessel. T456

 

RE: Trombone: , posted on August 7, 2017 at 15:26:52
hifitommy
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Posts: 15387
Location: canyon country califiornia, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 i have been fortunate to meet both watrous and mc chesney. LA is a great town for this. i suppose if i went to the NAAM show, i would have met more of these guys.
...regards...tr

 

RE: Frank Rosolino, posted on August 7, 2017 at 15:48:19
Travis
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Location: La Grange, Texas
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 I still find it hard to listen to his records after the way it all ended and I've been listening to Frank since the Kenton 50s' days.




"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok

 

RE: Trombone musings, posted on August 7, 2017 at 16:11:25
fantja
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Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 2nd,

JJ Johnson

 

Sal didn't do any writing that I'm aware of except a few tunes. Regarding the arrangements......, posted on August 8, 2017 at 08:49:02
Rick W
 you're thinking of Sammy Nestico.

 

RE: Frank Rosolino, posted on August 8, 2017 at 08:51:43
D Harvey
Manufacturer

Posts: 5563
Location: SE Michigan
Joined: May 30, 2001
 I know what you mean. I went to University with Frank's niece. They didn't talk about him in the family. I can't possibly know what got into his head at the end, but I doubt it had anything to do with his music. Now, his constant joking may have been a more telling warning sign according to some who knew him. It took me a while to learn to separate men's personal failures from their music. It must be done, but this is admittedly a severe case.

dh

 

RE: Frank Rosolino, posted on August 8, 2017 at 10:25:56
Travis
Audiophile

Posts: 6170
Location: La Grange, Texas
Joined: November 25, 2001
 I hear ya.

The dope stuff I can work around.

Killing is just a tad harder.




"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok

 

RE: Frank Rosolino, posted on August 8, 2017 at 12:09:18
Tweaker456
 Now I'm glad I didn't much like his playing.

 

RE: Sal didn't do any writing that I'm aware of except a few tunes. Regarding the arrangements......, posted on August 8, 2017 at 12:50:25
suretyguy
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Posts: 3022
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Yes, of course, thanks for the correction.

 

Larry Combs, Principal Clarinet in Chicago Sym was on Alto, posted on August 9, 2017 at 20:47:41
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 on the Jazz brothers Album.
Sal was so original, even tho a lot of late 50's Coltrane in there,
but he made it his own.
Loved that dark sound he got on his Original Dukoff Mpc.
Check out Woody 63!

 

Sal played a metal Link when I knew him (long after that Mangione recording). , posted on August 10, 2017 at 07:56:27
Rick W
 Surprised he ever played a Dukoff, but he probably would have gotten a beautiful sound on damn near any m'piece. Think Sal was in his early 20's when he played with Mangione Bros.! One of the best musicians I've ever run across.

During a period when he managed to stay clean for an extended time he performed what I think was an amazing feat -- he booked himself a cross country tour, booking EVERYTHING......the gigs, the rhythm sections in the towns he played in, his transportation and hotels.

 

RE: Sal played a metal Link when I knew him (long after that Mangione recording). , posted on August 10, 2017 at 08:15:38
oldmkvi
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Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I probably mistook a Pic for the Dukoff.
Mike Becker did use one before his Neck Problem, didn't he?
On that James Taylor One Man Dog Album,
and the Guerrilla Band LP.
My teacher in college had one I got to use while I was there.
Nothing like the later Dukoff's.
Ah, the Past!

 

RE: Sal played a metal Link when I knew him (long after that Mangione recording). , posted on August 10, 2017 at 10:26:32
Rick W
 Not sure about the Dukoff though you may well be right. I think it was him that influenced me to play a Dukoff on tenor for a while (a mistake, for me). Dunno what he ended up with but suspect it had a fairly high baffle since he needed a free blowing m'piece.

What a fantastic musician! Funny to look back now, but when I first met him Mike wasn't exactly a great reader. He occasionally played in a rehearsal band I played lead alto in back in the early/mid '70's on a tenor chair with no doubles (he played a metal Link in those days). The sax section - including Mike - used to laugh our asses off at him fucking up the sax soli's..... then he'd play an absolutely mesmerizing solo and we'd forget to come back in and play our parts.

 

RE: Sal played a metal Link when I knew him (long after that Mangione recording). , posted on August 10, 2017 at 11:17:22
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I saw a video of young Mike with the Louis Bellson Band.
Played an amazing Blues solo.
Elevated the whole band!

 

Yep, he was on a level I can only dream about. nt, posted on August 10, 2017 at 12:24:31
Rick W
 nt

 

RE: Sal played a metal Link when I knew him (long after that Mangione recording). , posted on August 10, 2017 at 14:13:29
Travis
Audiophile

Posts: 6170
Location: La Grange, Texas
Joined: November 25, 2001
 No mouthpiece stories but the first time I heard M. Brecker was on Dreams' first record. Dayam, THAT woke me up. He was, like, 19?


"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok

 

Me too. I was living in Boston and "Who the hell IS this guy?!" was my reaction. nt, posted on August 10, 2017 at 14:51:48
Rick W
 nt

 

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