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Mass - Loading Speakers, for Extra Performance gains

71.50.18.225

Posted on January 24, 2017 at 17:25:49
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005









This post has came about tonight as a result of a thread where I responded to AA Member, mhardy6647 today.

I took the time to mass load a Fulton P-12 Premiere set of loudspeakers, one of my all time favorite models from the genius designer, Robert W. Fulton. It is a 7 way system, that is plus or minus 1 dB from 12 HZ to 110 KHZ, measured.

I started with NO mass added, but the amp was cold, and it sounded poor. My program material was solo Piano, from some hack named Sir Arthur Brendel, playing some slipshod music from a guy named Ludwig Beethoven. It was a Piano Sonata No 21. " Waldstein ".

As soon as I put two red patio pavers on each side, the piano got better. Then I went to three ( 16 pounds, each unit ), four, five, six, and listened happily with six. As soon as I would remove ONE, I could readily sense the degrade. I added a seventh, there was plenty of room to do so, and I sat and RELAXED and listened to Sir Arthur play.

So, what are some of the things I experienced and heard??

Well, it played noticeably LOUDER with each unit added, It played " out of the box" more-so, and the drivers sounded more integrated, and I LOST the sense of a speaker, and the sense of a PIANO was starting to take place, in the room. Distortion in the midrange was lower, and I could RELAX and listen to the piano more-so. Individual piano strikes were better, more body and harmonic content, and a better hint of decays, was displayed.

Dynamics were noticeably better. No folks, a Fulton P-12 can NEVER beat my present ( getting ) well-set-up ALTEC VOTT A7-800s, but the mass loading certainly helped the P-12 speaker, as it will ALL speakers, to a LOVELY degree.

I had to disassemble the added mass, and as I did so, one 16 pound unit at a time, and carried each 20 feet to the back of this listening room, the P-12 speaker sounded more like a speaker, and less like when I heard seven 16 pound units per side. Interesting...ehhh ??

Seven is a good biblical number, Mr. Fulton would have liked that, he was with me in spirit in the session, he often is. My personal choice, as of ONE listening experiment, is to ONLY hear P-12s with seven units added...for SURE !!! 112 pounds added per side.

Sir Arthur was retired till I put him on my butt-kicking ALTEC rig, with 290 pounds a side added.

Have fun, I do !

HOPE this encourages some to get those red concrete blocks, truly, an audio / music-listener's NO BRAINER. Get off 'yer butt and DO something !!

You will eventually be thankful.

Jeff Medwin

 

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RE: Mass - Loading Speakers, for Extra Performance gains, posted on January 24, 2017 at 20:21:03
used-hifi
Audiophile

Posts: 1100
Location: Surprise AZ
Joined: March 18, 2003
ahhh the sound of music to my ears :)

Don't get too attached there Jeff, Those wonderful speakers are no longer yours :)))

I kidding

When I can get mine back up I will give it a shot, but right now only a mono tempo speaker and it sure keeps with the tempo of the music but IMO I have never heard speaker play grand Piano like the large fulton can.


Lawrence

 

RE: Mass - Loading Speakers, for Extra Performance gains, posted on January 24, 2017 at 21:07:47
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Lawrence,

That is your opinion, and your experience. Fine !!

As of tonight, I have my direct experiences, both with my own semi-optimized VOTT and ( as of today ) with a large Fulton, on a familiar recording. What I only suspected, I now know, today. They are not close.

If my words are not clear, they will be !! My not-quite-ready ALTEC implementation, from what I HEAR, easily EATS for lunch ANY large Fulton I have heard, and on piano reproduction, particularly !!

Hey dude, you need to TRY, ASAP, about 6 of those concrete patio units, on TOP of your mono speaker, listen incrementally. You WILL dig it, I know how well you hear LH !!

Jeff

 

I tried mass loading my TT, but I need to try another LP before I decide if it was worth it..., posted on January 27, 2017 at 19:23:27

.

 

I suggest a Rolling Stones album. (nt), posted on January 27, 2017 at 21:08:44
Coner
Audiophile

Posts: 3703
Location: S.W. Washington state, USA
Joined: November 17, 2001
(NT)

 

Not quite good enough, more needed...see....., posted on January 28, 2017 at 08:44:50
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Tennessee Ernie Ford ................doing 16 Tons,

on the SPEAKERS doofusses !!!

An EASY 5% improvement in the mids. Almost for free !! 10-20 dollars.


Jeff Medwin

 

RE: I suggest a Rolling Stones album. (nt), posted on January 28, 2017 at 11:44:34
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5371
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
No. Heavy Metal.

 

RE: Not quite good enough, more needed...see....., posted on January 29, 2017 at 13:01:39
bcowen
Audiophile

Posts: 1076
Location: North Carolina
Joined: December 19, 2015
Speaking of turntables, is that a Philips 312 in the picture, Jeff?

Looks like it's really out of level, or is that just a photo distortion? (sorry to go off-topic....)

 

RE: Not quite good enough, more needed...see....., posted on January 29, 2017 at 18:19:57
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Am not sure, its my co-worker's system, which we had set up in our jointly used office. I pay little attention to his set ups. I gave him those $6,500 ( new ) P-12 Fulton Premieres as a 2016 Christmas gift, and he seems very happy.

After me owning rewired and mass-loaded ALTEC VOTT A7-800s, I can hardly listen to anything else and be happy....with MY amps on them, of course.

Wow, what a thrill. I am doing some cool experimental work, last five-six months, with amps and my speakers, ( that no one has ever put together and HEARD in audio ), and it is going well. Details in a couple of months I'd say, when I am done experimenting, and can safely confirm it all.

Jeff

 

RE: Mass - Loading Speakers, for Extra Performance gains, posted on January 30, 2017 at 08:33:57
Is that an E-V T35 or T350 horn tweeter mounted on the top? And, what is the square item mounted in front of it?

Edit: For ID purposes, the T350 is about 7-1/4" inches on the long dimension, and the T35 is about 4".

:)

 

i) you can't be married ii) I don't need to., posted on January 30, 2017 at 22:45:54
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
I've owned cast concrete spheres for ages. They were cast in halves and put together with a concrete and PVA slurry and reo rods.


Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: Mass - Loading Speakers, for Extra Performance gains, posted on February 2, 2017 at 10:51:10
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



Good questions.

Its a T-35, 4 inch mouth and a 5 1/4 inch O.D. mounting flange.

The square unit in front of the T-35 is a 2 1/4 inch Peerless paper cone tweeter, firing upwards. The square part has a hole cut in the center, so it blocks most of the cone's radiation, and it allows the dust cap of the Peerless to play into the room.

Specs included up top. This is mid-1980s.


Jeff Medwin

 

RE: Not quite good enough, more needed...see....., posted on February 2, 2017 at 12:56:50
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Yes on turntable, a GA-312. It is level for sure, all else is an optical seclusion.

Jeff

 

how about using fiberglass to dampen & increase rigitity?, posted on February 3, 2017 at 03:54:18
thump
Audiophile

Posts: 416
Joined: April 19, 2016
mass loading would seem to work a lot better when you're able to bond your damping material to the front, back & sides where passive weighting doesn't work as much as increase the likelihood of buzzing.

i definitely believe in mass loading, especially when it's part of a design, but after the fact, especially with speakers, it can be tricky. i "mass loaded" a cheesy 12" sub cabinet i bought that was SUPPOSED to be 3/4" thick MDF, but only was on the front baffle with everything else lousy 1/2" or 5/8"

i spent a few days lining the interior with another 3/4" of MDF, one small piece that could fit through the woofer cutout and be weighted down at a time. the final cabinet was MUCH better damped and "knock test-proof", but was also extremely heavy and lost a lot of internal volume too once lined with 2" & 3" acou$tic foam tiles

after looking at another thread where someone mass loaded speakers by weighting their tops, i thought, yeah, but it doesn't do a lot to dampen resonances in the front, back & sides.

another issues with external mass loading would be if your dampening material is flush with your front baffle, it would ruin imaging through diffraction.

it would seem to me that a literally more seamless way to "mass load" (more increase rigidity really) would be to line the interior of a cabinet with fiberglass. besides adding a lot of rigidity without adding "too much mass" (as in in case you have to move stuff) it would also improve dampening by bonding a material with totally different resonant characteristics to your cabinet.

you could also further enhance rigidity by adding internal bracing ribs and if you also wanted to include mass loading, bond sheets of lead with your fiberglass.

yes, this is an apples and oranges solution, but is also one i haven't seen anyone toss out yet.

 

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