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when the going gets weird --

71.192.138.56

Posted on January 20, 2017 at 12:46:38
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
the weird turn pro.

DSC_6937 (2)

DSC_6933 (2)

DSC_6923 (2)
all the best,
mrh

 

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RE: when the going gets weird --, posted on January 20, 2017 at 13:52:14
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



Hello,

Pretty cute. 'Glad to see you finally cleaned up your listening room.

18 AWG times two is too small for your amp to speaker run. Negatively effects overall system's transfer efficiency, and bass response.

Run your cables direct to the diaphragm, not to those SILLY press-to-fit stock ALTEC 802 connectors. Wonder Solder them. Same for the 15 inch woofer, Wonder solder your wiring direct to the terminals holding the Woofer's voice coil wires.

From your crossover, use doubled - up ( paralleled ) 12 AWG to each woofer's polarity. ( the green wires in the photo ) NO press-to-fit / mechanical connections to woofer. Cost effective wire choice : M22759/11 12. Make 'em Robert W. Fulton lengths - multiples, or divisors, 57 1/8th inches.

My blue wires are 14 AWG, doubled - up between all crossover components, and single runs, Fulton lengths, to each 802 polarity m22759/11 14.

Let me know please, what you hear, and HOW that sounds to you. Have FUN.

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: when the going gets weird --, posted on January 21, 2017 at 11:54:47
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
DSC_6938 (2)
DSC_6944 (2)
all the best,
mrh

 

RE: when the going gets weird --, posted on January 21, 2017 at 12:26:03
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
Ah, some folks just can't leave well enough alone. :) Seriously though, looks like you are having fun... and your room like really nice - I'd rather spend time in your room than the other one shown in this thread.

I may have missed it, but what is amp in the middle of the room?

Cheers,
91.

"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

nope you didn't miss it --, posted on January 21, 2017 at 16:00:40
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
it's a very unusual version of Nelson Pass's "Amp Camp" amplifier.

Gasp -- soiled state.
Thus, in part, the title of this thread.

Thanks to a very kind soul at the Polk Audio forums, the amp's visiting here for comparison to SE 2A3 on the Duplexes (with or without -- their Frankensteinian 'enhancements').

DSC_6919 (2)
all the best,
mrh

 

Ah ha... be curious as to how it sounds. nt., posted on January 21, 2017 at 20:19:58
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

RE: Ah ha... be curious as to how it sounds. nt., posted on January 21, 2017 at 20:39:37
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
How can you tell?? And not make errors??

Its a lot easier to tell, " what end is up" when you attend to all the small but very important details, some of which I outlined in my post just below.

Also, critically judge audio using your EARs.

Have fun, I sure do !! ' Am excited what Q1 and Q2 2017 will bring to my listening environment. Almost .... where I want to be.

Jeff Medwin

 

Did you post to the correct thread? nt., posted on January 21, 2017 at 23:05:17
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

the amp (and the frankenAltecs) sound pretty darned good, actually (nt), posted on January 23, 2017 at 18:31:46
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
nt
all the best,
mrh

 

RE: the amp (and the frankenAltecs) sound pretty darned good, actually , posted on January 23, 2017 at 19:15:55
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Hi !!

I like the set up, and the room is very nice also.

Was wondering, are you using the 604-looking driver as a woofer only, with the tweeter disconnected, or is the tweeter active in it ??

If active, I was wondering about the spacing between the two tweeters, and if it created any problem. In your nice large room, from a distant listening position, it may be that you can get away with the two tweeters as set up !

Have FUN, I do too.

jeff Medwin



 

woofer only in the wacky configuration shown , posted on January 23, 2017 at 19:40:54
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
Spacing and "time alignment" strictly empirical (and lazily so, I might add).

An experiment in progress.
all the best,
mrh

 

I LIKE that .... !, posted on January 23, 2017 at 23:33:09
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
LOL, I did a similar " time alignment ", just today.

Spent half the day moving my VOTTS and LPs, 90 degrees, to different walls in my small listening room, so the ALTECs will be equally corner loaded.

Since you are " experimenting" can I offer an inexpensive suggestion to you, that worked out quite well for me, and is easy and reversible 100% ???

Mass Load the speakers. Here is how I suggest to do it :

(1) Go to Lowe's, Garden Department. Find their concrete Patio Tile section, and ( initially, to experiment) buy ten poured concrete patio tiles. They come in grey and red concrete, I prefer the latter. The basic size I use most is about 12 by 12 by about 1.7 inches thick, and each one weighs about 16 pounds. Cost is either $1.37 a tile, or $1.87 a tile, a big BANG-for-the buck, cost versus weight !!

(2) So as not to scratch or damage the woofer's enclosure, place cardboard, or indoor-outdoor carpet on one speaker's top surface. Load just that one speaker, and A-B it versus the unloaded one. As you increase the weight, the effect will get better and better.

(3) Then, do the same Mass loading for the large horn you have, sitting on top of your woofer enclosure. LISTEN to that. Re-compare, the mass loaded, now in two places side, to your stock side. There should be better inner detail, and lower distortion, better overall resolution, on the mass loaded side.

(4) After you hear that A-B, get some more, and add it to the already loaded side, till it hardly makes any difference.

(5) Get the same amount of weight, for the other speaker side.

(6) I use early ALTEC 825 VOTT enclosures, which are only mostly 5/8th inch plywood, too thin. This mod, allowed me to keep the box 100% STOCK, yet have a sonic improvement, equal, or maybe exceeding, what bracing can accomplish. I stopped at 290 pounds added each side.

(7) I don't care how solid your box is, I am willing to bet you $20.00 this will improve your sound, and you won't look back !! Box first, horn second, then max weight, and then other side .

(8) Please, please, please, write back to me , once you try this, and tell me of your listening experience. I was SO HAPPY to have done this. My email address is above available.

Have FUN, I certainly am.

Jeff Medwin

PS, Only AFTER this mass loading is done, Uncle Stu's Speaker Baffles certainly improved diction, on playback, but the mass loading is needed first, to appreciate the Uncle Stu mod.

Let me know your results !!! Thanks.

 

I quoted your patio blocks thread at another forum, in fact, posted on January 24, 2017 at 05:40:02
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
Yes, I have thought, more than once, about 'resonance control -- and I could use some "pavers" any way for a springtime project :-)


all the best,
mrh

 

RE: I LIKE that .... !, posted on January 24, 2017 at 06:52:55
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
I have never tried it with horns (no room) but using cinderblocks for speaker stands made a noticeable improvement. It is worth a try. It doesn't cost much.

Dave

 

RE: I LIKE that .... !, posted on January 24, 2017 at 08:07:57
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



Works GREAT on my small speakers. You need to mass load the TOP of the speaker. With classic Fulton FMI 80 bookhelves, ( an eight inch and two 2 and a quarters ) in my room, two months ago, I added 16 pound " patio pavers " incrementally, until I stopped hearing much of a difference. It took THREE added. ( 48 pounds per speaker ). Lovely !!

I would / could, NOT go back and listen to my FMI 80s at all, bare, AFTER doing that step-by-step incremental mass increase.

The VOTTs were the same, and I stopped around 290 pounds each. Wonderful and CHEAP.

Like hearing inner detail? Like lower distortion? Like understanding the diction, the words they are singing? Like less driver to driver intermodulation ? Then THIS easy, reversible, and CHEAP mod of mine needs to be TRIED !!!

Pictured above is my very earliest 2015 attempt at incremental mass loading, using my LP boxes ( I have 10,000 LPs, most in boxes for now ). On 12-20-2015, I ended up INCREMENTALLY stopping at 259 pounds, five boxes...sounded better than four !!

The use of " patio pavers " solution, I've came up with, to replace the LPs, I feel is most elegant as a solution. Cost versus performance....hard to beat.

Jeff

Jeff Medwin

 

Yo !!, posted on January 24, 2017 at 08:34:34
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Cool, thanks.

I have a photo from my early / initial 12-20-2015 experiments ( increments of LP boxes ) posted above in this thread.

LOL. I "know" your type. You will "kick yourself in the rear end", for waiting until spring-time, to experience this with your ALTEC music playback !! :-)

Visit Lowes today, and get started with just ten " patio pavers " to HEAR, on your one enclosure. Under $20.00 !!! $18.70 plus tax.

Jeff Medwin

 

Mass Loading Fulton FMI 80 Bookshelf speakers , posted on January 24, 2017 at 09:16:44
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



Took 3 incrementally. There is no going back to stock, undamped now, after hearing it. Actually, I went to the ALTECS , hard to beat em, unless you own WWII Klangfilm, from what Dennis Fraker teaches me.

Jeff

 

no Lowes up here any more, just Home Despot ;-) (nt), posted on January 24, 2017 at 11:59:47
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16019
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since:
October 23, 2016
nt
all the best,
mrh

 

RE: I LIKE that .... !, posted on January 24, 2017 at 12:17:38
rage
Audiophile

Posts: 793
Joined: December 17, 2010
I've got ~ 200 lbs of concrete in each of my VOTT behind the curve of the horn.

helped imaging, tightened up the rattles and vibrations... speaker is less lively however I think they sound better.

moving them at this point would suck.

 

Home Depot is open till 9 PM tonight , posted on January 24, 2017 at 12:32:50
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005



$ 1.70 each, only 10.63 cents a pound.

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: I LIKE that .... !, posted on January 24, 2017 at 13:02:40
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Cool Rage.

Concrete troweled in, filling up behind the thin curved VOTT bass horns - to the speaker baffle boards, is not irreversible.

It is not quite the same as concrete mass-loading the entire top of the enclosure. The concrete I have stacked up high at the rear of the speaker, is directly over the woofer's rear compression chamber, and it loads the side and rear walls evenly. The ones up front stabilize the top of the bass horn, particularly, the large open mouth.

Then, I mass load the tweeter horn, and external crossover.


Jeff

 

RE: Mass Loading Fulton FMI 80 Bookshelf speakers , posted on January 27, 2017 at 13:12:12
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 14371
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
Not sure if it would work well with my speakers (Spendor BC-1's with thin-wall damped Baltic Birch cabinets). Of course it would not cost much to try.

Dave

 

RE: Mass Loading Fulton FMI 80 Bookshelf speakers , posted on January 27, 2017 at 19:01:48
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
Its not just the cabinet you are damping, but its the kinetic motion of the drivers. In all three speakers I tried, it was VERY positive. Buy six or maybe eight and LISTEN for yourself, in 16 pound increments. Report what you hear. Big hardware stores are open all-day Saturday.

Jeff

 

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