Playing with acoustic foam :)

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 3, 2016 at 15:33:30
KanedaK Audiophile Posts: 2519 Location: Brussels Joined: April 27, 2010	And a front view

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 3, 2016 at 17:44:42
YRY Audiophile Posts: 491 Location: So. California Joined: April 4, 2002	Maybe try some foam to keep the mids from bouncing off the top of the bass unit?

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 3, 2016 at 19:58:45

Inmate51

Those E-V horns are from the Electro-Voice Sentry III and Sentry IV. The Sentry III blew away the Altec Model 19 and the Valencias, etc. The Sentry IV blew away the Altec A7 Voice of the Theater. That's not a surprise, since the Sentry line was a more modern design.

What I wonder is: What happened to the rest of the parts? How does a person end up with just a pair of midrange horns from a venerable semi-vintage loudspeaker?

Lastly, these bear no resemblance to the Klipsch LaScala. Entirely different tweeter, entirely different mid horn and driver, entirely different bass folded horn and driver. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they're both 3-way horn-loaded speakers.

:)

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 4, 2016 at 03:55:54

KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010

They are more LaScala-alike (lol) than you might think: they started as a pair of LaScalas, a split pair. Not a "professional" version: they were split because the previous owner turned a normal, raw pair of LS into a split pair, added protection corners, and used them as PA speakers for years.

Then they ended up in my bedroom; I was still a teenager, almost. I paid a cheap price for them: around 400$; the woofers were not original, and they were rough and beaten up and ugly, but I immediately fell in love.

I started by buying brand new K33E woofers ( the ones I still use), then over the last 18 years , little by little, I modded them, every time funds allowed: as much as I loved them, as much I felt there was room for improvement. But there was NO WAY I would part with them.

First went the K400 horns, replaced them with the SM120 horns from EV, sitting on top of the bass bins, with the T35 (K77) sitting on top of them. Then I bought the Beyma CP25 tweeters, and that was also a big step forward; that's when I built the box to hold midrange and treble drivers together. Then, and that was like 6 years ago, I bought ALK Universal crossovers. Again, massive step forward, and I was more and more in love with my "Klipsch".

Over all those years, annoyed by some rattling noises and resonances from my bass horns, I had made the plan in the corner of my head to one day brace the bass horns and that would be the final step. But then I came across those Peavey bass horns, and they solve the bracing problem, while adding more clarity and dynamics in the lower midrange. I couldn't pass...

So basically, they still use the Klipsch woofers, the Klipsch mid drivers, the Klipsch crossover frequencies (even tho the ALK crossover is NOT from KLipsch, it is made for klipsch products, using the same frequencies and, to a certain margin, slopes); the bass horn, while not being Klipsch anymore, uses the same design, only not having size constrains. So to me, they are like the "Ultimate LaScala", sharing the same philosophy and all.

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 4, 2016 at 04:07:29

KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010

I need to add, I'm as much in love with their looks as with the way they sound; it's always fun to see people "into hi-fi" using conventional, direct-radiator speakers, beautifully veneered, sleek finish, reacting like: "oh my, those are disco speakers, are u a DJ or something?", then sit in the sweet spot, and silently nodding, foot tapping, mouth slightly open, as Mark Knopfler guitar stands in front of them, in all subtility and glorious dynamics. The less you expect speakers to sound good, the more you are shocked when you hear them :-D

Consider some heavy soft woolen felt, posted on August 4, 2016 at 06:44:49
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com Audiophile Posts: 3040 Location: Atlanta Joined: December 15, 2003	Would last forever, look better, and I would bet, sound better. That foam is reflective more than you would think.

What are they?, posted on August 4, 2016 at 07:21:50
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	Besides 'Disco Speakers' ;-) First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 4, 2016 at 08:08:25
moray james Manufacturer Posts: 1599 Location: Calgary on the Bow Joined: May 19, 2002	those look to be Peavey FH1 cabinets not Klipsch at all. The FH1 is no only a much better LaScala it is in fact a better Belle,longer than either of those more consistent expansion larger mouth and better braced. As good as it gets for the size. Roll them at 80 - 90Hz to a straight bass horn or bin of your choice and you will be good to go. moray james

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 4, 2016 at 15:18:33

freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 3852
Joined: December 6, 2001

a tapped pipe or horn would help. I like to use felt under a K-tube when the tube is sitting on top of a Karlson coupler. A baffle at the K-tube's plate might help on the lower end of the K-tube response.

FWIW, I prefer a Karlson 12 to FH1 but FH1 with an Altec 511 midrange and tweeter makes a good rock and roll speaker. A K12 with 200 watts amp can kick well for such a tiny cabinet. EV's Sentry IV horn above behaved oddly with just a cap and an 1823M - perhaps that driver needed a 2nd order highpass - ?
Karlson Evangelist

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 4, 2016 at 15:35:21

horn kid
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Joined: November 2, 2014

"I need to add, I'm as much in love with their looks as with the way they sound; it's always fun to see people "into hi-fi" using conventional, direct-radiator speakers, beautifully veneered, sleek finish, reacting like: "oh my, those are disco speakers, are u a DJ or something?", then sit in the sweet spot, and silently nodding, foot tapping, mouth slightly open, as Mark Knopfler guitar stands in front of them, in all subtility and glorious dynamics. The less you expect speakers to sound good, the more you are shocked when you hear them :-D"

Well, and I say congratulations for knowing what you like, and sticking with it.

And I bet they are better than most if not all of those slick new speakers! I'm laughing at your description of owners of the slick speakers faces when they first hear your speakers! But they will convince themselves of the superiority of theirs as they get away from you and re-enter the "denial zone" of their audio lives where newer is better and reviewer approval is more important than the sound in their homes.

RE: Consider some heavy soft woolen felt, posted on August 6, 2016 at 01:29:09

KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010

Thanks for the suggestion :) I'll try it next time.
Foam doesn't live forever, that's true... but I kinda like the "hey-look-I've-made-myself-recording-studio-speakers" look. It's a bit in your face, it's a bit like a Corvette trying too hard to look like a Lamborghini, but I find it fun.

As far as efficiency goes, foam might be slightly reflective, but with foam / without foam really is a night and day difference and, I don't think it could sound better than it does now, in all honesty! But if for any reason i have to take the foam away, I'll consider wool felt.

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 6, 2016 at 01:37:44

KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010

I have a pair of karlson (15?) I started to work on (see my other posts)

they can't, however, match the 104dB sensitivity of these FH1/klipsch/EV hybrids.

My main amplifier is 2 x 8watts and I like to crank it up! :)

a karslon tube with a compression driver is something i moight try in the future to go with the Karlson bins. For now, the midrange is played by some Philips vintage cone mids (AD5062SQ4) in big frontloaded exponential horns. I need to build crossovers (375Hz/3500Hz first order maybe?) and buy tweeters. this karlson project is just for fun and has to cost next to nothing (that's the challenge). as long as it makes some "big bold sound", with reasonably flat response, I'm happy.

Morphing, posted on August 6, 2016 at 07:35:38
Inmate51	That's a great story about how you morphed them into something quite different! I suspect they now sound more like an E-V Sentry IV than a LaScala, which is a good thing. :)

RE: Morphing, posted on August 6, 2016 at 08:37:01

KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2519
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010

Thanks ;-) they're a long term relationship for sure. Probably a lifetime marriage, I'm not afraid to say - until I win the lottery and buy some JBL Everest DD55000 :-) and even then, I'd most likely keep these, as a secondary system, of for the country house!

I never heard EV Sentry IV but I would excpect mine to sound even better, having an "audiophile" crossover network as opposed to a professional one. Probably mostly same basic presentation but I'm ready to bet mine are more refined and smooth. Chances are I'll never know, tho ;-)

RE: Playing with acoustic foam :), posted on August 6, 2016 at 15:27:23

freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 3852
Joined: December 6, 2001

Karlson is probably close to 99dB (good 8 ohm 15" woofer) and will play cleaner in places than the FH1 (perhaps not cleaner than DJK's Vented La Scala mod which you could easily add to your FH1 - being a vented hybrid you can treat it like a 6th order bass reflex and add some boost centered around ~1.03* tuning)

btw, imo K33 sound like a weak toy in K15 compared to say Altec 421

David A. Young's notes from Job Ulfman's Karlson forum

"As a low frequency cabinet, the Karlson is usable to 35hz with
low harmonic distortion. Like any enclosure that depends on porting to augment the bass output, Theile-Small parameters have
to be taken into consideration.

(I disagree with the low crossover point - his interpretation of a "K18" had a large rear chamber, and 20dB hole - it was interesting to have good distortion with the EV18B)

I have yet to measure anything of
comparitive size that came close. They get ugly above 175 hz. and require a crossover set from 100-150 hz.

The key to its low freq.performance is the coupled front chamber. The increased air pressure loads the cone and dampens it. A front loaded woofer and
a horn loaded woofer operating below cutoff doesn't have that advantage.

Twice I've measured the 3rd harmonic of 40hz(120 hz) louder than the fundamental with 100 watts feeding the speaker.
The Peavey FH-1 and a Yorkville 2-18 with RCF's. When the 1504-4
Black Widow was tested in a 12 cu. ft. Karlson, the 3rd harmonic
distortion went from 103% to 8%. I didn't have the Yorkville long
enough to switch speakers."

Karlson Evangelist

High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

Playing with acoustic foam :)

109.132.213.102