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Clipping?

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Posted on July 22, 2015 at 10:20:40
gwlvrns
Audiophile

Posts: 124
Location: Colorado Springs
Joined: September 15, 2002
I've had my '85 Cornwalls for 16 years now. I recently purchased a fully reconditioned Pioneer SA8800 integrated (looks like it was built yesterday). I've been enjoying the improved bottom end I get vs my 17-year-old Jolida 502B, though I certainly think the Jolida beats it hands down in the midrange. Anyway, when the meters on this thing reach their 80 watt peak, I seem to be hearing these soft hand claps in the background. I thought I was imagining it at first, but the more I've played around, it's there. Is that clipping? I never got any kind of intrusive noise with my 60-watt rated Jolida. It just got a little fuzzy when pushed. And despite the soft low end, I think my Jolida plays louder. Tubes vs Solid State?

 

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RE: Clipping?, posted on July 22, 2015 at 10:52:07
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
I doubt it is clipping from what you describe but it is something I guess. Those speakers would be very loud with 80 watts going in each one. On your old Jolida if the tubes are weak, which after many years is possible even likely depending on hours used, I wouldn't be surprised if you only have 10-20 watts per channel coming from it. Test all those tubes and see. Also have you been keeping the tubes biased?


E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Clipping?, posted on July 23, 2015 at 06:15:00
gwlvrns
Audiophile

Posts: 124
Location: Colorado Springs
Joined: September 15, 2002
Yes, second set of tubes and keep the bias in check. I realise I'm pushing around 115 decibels when this occurs, it's just every now and then I really like to crank it up, weird for a fifty-year-old? I thought I was imagining it at first, and it's not unpleasant, just not right. Just a soft click or pop at the amp's extreme output. Setting the volume to around 11:30 when the peaks are just touching 80 on the flouroscan meters. I bought this amp for low-end fun and thought I would have plenty of headroom. The Klipsch should be able to play all day at 115-120 decibels without breaking a sweat, so I don't think it's them. Thank you for the response.

 

RE: Clipping?, posted on July 23, 2015 at 17:49:39
Paul Joppa
Industry Professional

Posts: 7294
Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: April 23, 2001
Audiophile recordings may have peaks as much as 20dB greater than the perceived loudness (short-term average), so if you are really cranking it, what yoou hear may well be clipping.

Solid-state amps usually have much more negative feedback than tube amps, so they clip more aggressively. Some professional listeners such as recording engineers make it a practice to avoid peak levels greater than 6dB below clipping - that's 1/4 the power. I believe this is the origin of the claim that tube watts are bigger than solid state watts. Tube amps clip more gracefully; you really have to push it hard before it sounds bad. That's a major reason guitar players prefer them.

 

RE: Clipping?, posted on July 24, 2015 at 11:12:58
I don't know those products, so forgive me if I write something which doesn't apply.

It could be that your preamp is being pushed too hard to drive your amp. As my old mentor John Meyer (www.meyersound.com) once said, "it's a SYSTEM".

It could also be damaged speakers.

It could also be that your refurbished Pioneer isn't as good as your Jolida, or, that it isn't as refubished as it should be.

In any case, something is being over-driven somewhere in the chain. To assume that it's amp clipping is a knee-jerk, although possible, assumption.

On the other hand, I have a 100 wpc amp which has never clipped with my moderate efficiency speakers, but have played my system plenty loud. (Probably not 110 dB, though.)

:)

 

RE: Clipping?, posted on July 26, 2015 at 08:27:27
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
I totally understand the desire for loud, which for me I do still in short bursts at 55. Maybe you are using it(Pioneer) all up and as the other post by Paul states when an SS amp clips its much uglier if you will than on a tube amp.

Headroom is important. I bi-amp with 250/ch for the LF and 100/ch for the HF.

E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Clipping?, posted on July 28, 2015 at 04:22:39
SETguy
Audiophile

Posts: 35
Joined: July 4, 2015
Last night the Klipsch forum introduced a new section about using tube equipment with their speakers. One of the introductory threads has information which you will find very informative. You may want to consider posting your question there. Hope this helps.

 

RE: Clipping?, posted on August 1, 2015 at 09:12:52
KanedaK
Audiophile

Posts: 2515
Location: Brussels
Joined: April 27, 2010
Damn. I have LaScalas (admittedly around 4dB more sensitive than Cornwalls) and don't manage to drive my amplifier (2 x 8 watts Tripath-based amp) into clipping. I'm 37, I'm what they call a "clubber", throw parties at my place, no clipping.

Maybe there's something wrong in your amp. Maybe the drivers are bottoming out (woofers or midrange drivers). Maybe your ears are just begging you to stop ;)

 

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