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Tilt or raise horn system

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Posted on March 2, 2015 at 09:33:14
Jim D.
Audiophile

Posts: 854
Location: FL
Joined: October 26, 2000
 What are the relative merits of "tilting" up a horn system versus raising the entire system the necessary distance to get the mid-range horn at ear level? I ask because I have a 3 way horn system that because the mid bass sits lower to the floor, the centerline of the midrange horn sits about 7" below my ears. I will experiment to see myself but I'd like to know from the technical POV.

Thanks,
Jim

 

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RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 2, 2015 at 11:50:39
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 I don't like the sound of tilted speakers up or down it seems to mess up the stage and image. I much prefer to raise the speaker so the centre of the mid horn is at my seated ear level which depending on how tall you are an your seating is between 39 - 41 inches off the ground. You can compare the two ways and listen for yourself.. Best regards Moray James.
moray james

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 2, 2015 at 12:14:38
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 Also, I think that distance from the horns and directivity come into play. If you can tilt the horn so that you're on axis, it shouldn't make a difference. If tilting the horn puts you off axis it can sound a bit off.

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 2, 2015 at 12:27:11
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 I had Heresy lll on the floor pretty much on axis to the mid now up on stands directly at my ear now looking down the throat of the mid horn and I prefer it up on the stand. as always YMMV. Have done the same experiment with a number of other mid horns and I always prefer them parallel to the floor and at my ear level. Best regards Moray James.
moray james

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 2, 2015 at 14:36:03
Grinnell
Audiophile

Posts: 709
Location: Front Range
Joined: December 23, 2007
 I have a pair of klipsch quartets and had them on the floor for the last 2 years

just raised them up about 14-16 inches and huge difference much better sound

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 2, 2015 at 15:25:37
Scholl
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 1357
Joined: March 8, 2001
 Regardless of the system, it's good to know and understand where the acoustic center of the system is and make sure it's positioned at the best angle and height. Multi-way systems will have a spot on the baffle where the speakers operate properly with minimal dips due to interference, lobing and phase angles. A real time analyzer or other frequency response measurement equipment comes in handy for positioning.

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 2, 2015 at 21:24:45
Paul Joppa
Industry Professional

Posts: 7295
Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: April 23, 2001
 If you move the speaker, it will change the way it interacts with the room modes in the bass. Position counts in the bass, directivity counts in the treble.

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 3, 2015 at 06:38:36
horn kid
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Joined: November 2, 2014
 Do the experiment yourself. Stacks of wood, cement blocks, whatever, raise them with materials you have or can easily get on the cheap. The try tilting to various degrees. Build your own base of knowledge that you will remember longer than the conflicting information you will get on forums from people you have never met. I've heard folks speak dogmatically about sound, as if their system rewrote the book, only to visit the system and hear truly horrible sound, sometimes with the speakers out of phase with each other!

How about an "expert", cocky owner a system on a dirt floor of a musty, damp old cellar with 5 foot ceilings with the chair a few feet away from the speakers? A true experience, by the way.

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 3, 2015 at 11:44:33
Inmate51
 Hey Jim D.,

It really depends on your speakers and your room.

One of the big problems with most home rooms is the lack of upper midrange and high frequency ambient sound, generally due to carpeting and furniture. So, whether horns or direct radiators, getting more of that sound into the ambient "mix" often helps. So go ahead, tilt 'em back - let the sound blossom, and see how you like it!

:)

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 5, 2015 at 06:02:06
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 James,
Mh problem with raising my HIIs vs tilting using Bob Crites' riser I just got a bit ago is the loss of bass. I actually like the bass output of the HIIs as I listen to classical and jazz, neither which dig deep below 50hz and have no desire to add any auxiliary woofer system. My HII had neither Klipsch riser so, Bob's made sense for me. My setup has me looking down the throat of the mid and tweeter using the riser. At your suggestion I did raise them, just put them on an idle speaker with the woofers facing away from the seating position and covered to minimize as much sympathetic effect as possible. The idle speakers are coupled room the floor and there is no isolation between it and the HII.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 5, 2015 at 09:08:39
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002


Here is a picture of one of my Heresy lll sets up on 21 inch Skylan four post stands. As you can see the factory riser has been removed. The stands are on Teflon glides to make for easy positioning and they also sound better than on spikes on the concrete pad that they are on. I have done numerous modifications to both the cabinet and the drivers to these Heresy lll and they make considerably more bass than a stock pair of Heresy do mounted on the floor. Best regards Moray James.
moray james

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 5, 2015 at 17:39:50
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 Thanks James. Is it my eyes or do the drivers on the III mount from the inside? Could just be the grill and lighting but it looks more.like tje original than what I see through the grills on my IIs.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 5, 2015 at 19:16:53
moray james
Manufacturer

Posts: 1599
Location: Calgary on the Bow
Joined: May 19, 2002
 The drivers on the H3 all mount from the front (outside the cabinet) the rear panel is fixed. You are seeing a 1/8" layer of F-11 Acoustical Felt around each of the horn mouths and over all of the woofer. Around the horns the F-11 is catching diffraction while over the woofer it is acting as an acoustical filter and as an acoustic load. I have also included a link so you can see the extensive solid white oak brace work inside the cabinets. The cabinets are internally damped with high density fiberglass ((about 90% totally stuffed) which is positioned such that only cut edges face the woofer this makes it much more absorbent, how the fiberglass is oriented when installed makes or breaks its use in this situation. There are also extensive modifications to the drivers and horns. Hope this is of interest. Best regards MOray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=438234
moray james

 

RE: Tilt or raise horn system, posted on March 8, 2015 at 04:19:34
Scott L
Audiophile

Posts: 353
Location: Knoxville
Joined: February 2, 2001
 Jim,

If possible, post a picture and describe the entire system chain. From what I recall, your mid range salad bowls sounded SUPERB. Also, at the time, I think you had a mid bass scoop, but did not have any hi-efficiency tweeters yet. Somewhere in a previous post you mentioned going to a larger tapped horn sub.
Say hello to the cat for me.
best regards,

Scott L.

 

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