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Pioneer PAX-30g

60.241.244.69
Posted on January 21, 2015 at 02:06:20
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015



Hi all, I have have the opportuniy to by a pair of pioneer pax30g duplex fullrange drivers in nice solid cabinets. 103db efficiency. Anyone had experience with them? Thanks

http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/unit/pax-30g-e.html

 

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RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 21, 2015 at 07:59:10
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 2529
Joined: March 8, 2002
 No experience, but they look like very capable drivers. How much are they asking?

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 21, 2015 at 12:00:01
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Yeah there is not much info on them, I have read one very positive report though. $130 for the pair in cabinets.

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 21, 2015 at 17:15:54
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Yeah there is not much info on them, I have read one very positive report though. $130 for the pair in cabinets.

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 21, 2015 at 19:34:11
escape2cfc
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: Gulf Coast
Joined: August 27, 2007
 Have you had a chance to listen to them? Or do they test well? What size drivers are they? The cabinets could easily be worth the cost you mentioned. Certainly if you like the sound!

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 22, 2015 at 01:00:41
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Not heard them yet. Will try to before getting them. They are 12" woofers. cabinets are prob 50cm wide x 50cm tall x 40cm deep from memory. They look very solid. The drivers are rear mounted on front baffle which looks at least 3cm thick.

 

No way those are 103db efficient. , posted on January 22, 2015 at 01:43:15
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
 95db/w if you are lucky.

Sheesh!


Warmest

Tim Bailey

Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger


 

RE: No way those are 103db efficient. , posted on January 22, 2015 at 02:07:24
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 That's what the spec says, I know not to believe specs though. I'm sure you'd know better than me. But the bloke selling them only had one thing to say about them - they play bloody loud :)

 

RE: No way those are 103db efficient. , posted on January 22, 2015 at 06:48:30
Garg0yle
Audiophile

Posts: 859
Joined: December 1, 2014
 Yes they are specified @ 103db.

Anyhow for that price they may be worth a try.

You could resale them or relegate them to a secondary system if they don't work out.
△This message will self destruct in 10 seconds△

 

RE: No way those are 103db efficient. , posted on January 22, 2015 at 11:09:15
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Yeah agreed. Though I have no shortage of speakers at the moment ha.

 

Good luck finding....., posted on January 22, 2015 at 17:25:22
Oface
Audiophile

Posts: 1497
Location: columbia, south carolina
Joined: May 3, 2003
 Replacement diaphragms if the highs go.

I have a pair, but can not find no source to replace the fried diaphragms.

I would save your $$$ and eventual agitation and pass on these.

 

RE: Good luck finding....., posted on January 22, 2015 at 17:40:18
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Yeah true that. But then again, if they sound fantastic I'm willing to bet that I'll get $130 bucks worth of enjoyment out of them before they eventually die. If they don't sound that great I assume I could sell them straight away for no loss.

 

lmgtfy ..., posted on January 22, 2015 at 20:05:21
Paul Joppa
Industry Professional

Posts: 7295
Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: April 23, 2001
 http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/unit/pax-30g-e.html

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 22, 2015 at 20:35:06
grindstone
Audiophile

Posts: 188
Location: GMT -6
Joined: August 10, 2008
 Umkay, this is an investment in hearing-education. Here's a handy guide for how to decide:

You have:

(a) spilled half that much in a night
(b) spent that on a date after which you never saw your date again (and were money-and-grief-ahead)
(c) decided to commission a custom driver that does that
(d) wondered what drivers from Just Them and Just Then sounded like
(e) there is no (e) -- (e) is where you Know if you are Exploring or something else.

:)

We need reports!

Yeah--old pioneer stuff -- 90-some is right on that bit.

It is still/always an investment in hearing-education. You'll know when it's bad money after good. If you don't, yer not there yet :) Have fun!!

 

RE: lmgtfy ..., posted on January 22, 2015 at 23:08:48
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 I might buy that 103dB at 1/2M, but never at 1M.

Pyle used to publish their graphs for 1/2W at 1/2M, you just had to read the fine print(and subtract 3dB).

 

RE: lmgtfy ..., posted on January 23, 2015 at 03:17:14
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015



Not sure if this helps

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 23, 2015 at 03:26:32
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Ha yes well put. Well I'll check them out again tomorrow and If all's good expect some reports soon :)

 

RE: lmgtfy ..., posted on January 23, 2015 at 15:22:56
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 It doesn't disclose the test method.

My point was that the numbers they list are not possible.

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 23, 2015 at 21:51:20
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015



Well I got them :)

I think you need to live with a pair of speaker for a while to assess them, so here's a first impressions report. I'll update this after a bit of listening time as well as a strip down of the cabinets showing the drivers etc, I'll deoxit the pots and so on.

So I'm evaluating these within the context of speakers I own and driven by the system I have:

My system: Mark levinson ML-1 preamp, perreaux 300w mosfet power amp. Musical fidelity m1 dac with flacs.

Speakers I own as a reference:. Jbl 4343, rogers ls 3/6, AR 3a, Jbl 4311, and several more over the years.

The cabinets are smaller than I recalled when I first saw them, they are 44cm wide x 60cm tall x 30cm deep. There is an adjustable pot on the back.

So when I first hooked them up one word, that one of you inmates described the spec of them as, keep coming to mind..."Capable". I just kept thinking they are very capable. Sort of suprised how capable they are given the size of the cabinets and their age. Then there was the realization that I need to compare these to my 4343's and not any other bookshelf speakers of similar size that I know. That is, their sound is more similar to a large speaker system with horns then similar size, non horn based 3 ways that I know. I guess right now I'm suprised how the sound stage is quite open and not appearing to come directly from the boxes themselves, and I'm also enjoying the similarity to the horn I'm used to ie. the jbl 2420 and the sort of clarity and directness that comes from that sort of sound. At the same time they are picking up some nice atmospheric subtitles which is also a bit of a suprise. The other thing that sticks out is thatg preamp and power amp need to be dialed down much more than the 4343's which I guess relates to the higher efficiency.

Well that's all for now, I'm enjoying a couple of beers and listening to Bob Marley. I may strip them down later and take some pics and upload....or I may just enjoy these wonderful, overlooked little beasts and have a few more beers with Bob:)

Cheers to "education"






 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 23, 2015 at 22:52:26
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 "The other thing that sticks out is thatg preamp and power amp need to be dialed down much more than the 4343's which I guess relates to the higher efficiency"

How much louder would you guess?

5 or 6dB or so?

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 23, 2015 at 23:39:36
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Pioneer = Pre (setting 3 out of 10) Power( setting 5 out of 10)
JBL = Pre ( setting 6 out of 10) Power ( settiing 8 out of 10)

Just off the top of my head, can be more accurate about this if you'r e interested.

 

RE: lmgtfy ..., posted on January 24, 2015 at 11:19:48
Brian Levy
Audiophile

Posts: 2438
Location: Toronto
Joined: June 5, 2000
 Have you tested them or is there evidence to the contrary? What is your basis for disputing the spec. and why is it more accurate? I am not trying to be confrontational but when a person makes a flat statement as a fact as you did, I like to see the evidence behind the statement. I agree most speaker specs. are subject to challenge as they are almost a subjective decision based on some measurement that can be broadly interpreted.
Don Brian Levy, J.D.
Toronto ON Canada

 

RE: lmgtfy ..., posted on January 24, 2015 at 21:04:36
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 When pigs fly?

The most efficient permanent magnet 15" driver ever made was the JBL 130/2220 series driver at No=8.7%, or 101.4dB

Now while it will produce some ragged peaks in the upper midrange that are higher, would it be truthful to advertize it as being higher in efficiency that it actually is in its piston band (the octave between its EBP and Mass Corner)?

Eminence makes some 12" guitar speakers that are over 110dB above 2Khz, but are, at best, 98dB in their piston band.

Thus, when I see a permanent magnet 12" driver claiming 103dB I know it isn't so.

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 24, 2015 at 21:09:04
Oface
Audiophile

Posts: 1497
Location: columbia, south carolina
Joined: May 3, 2003
 I take it those cabinets are not ported?

Mine were in some end table like cabinets and you opened up the swing out doors and they had a rectangular port 12"w X 2" X 1"d, there low end wasn't that bad, but my 604's were better. I hust wish I could find a way to repair/replace the fried diaphrams, so I can see how their overall sound is.


Glad you got a complete working pair!

 

RE: Pioneer PAX-30g, posted on January 24, 2015 at 23:05:53
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Yeah these aren't ported. Yeah ive heard a couple of 604's before and agree better bass on them with that 15". But apart from that I think the pioneers are surprisingly comparable to the altecs. I do think these deserve a bigger ported box like what is shown here for the pax a30

http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/unit/pax-a30-e.html

 

RE: Good luck finding....., posted on February 1, 2015 at 02:39:26
goldjazz
Audiophile

Posts: 32
Joined: January 21, 2015
 Hi Oface, Just a thought re your fried horns on these PAX 30g's . Have you taken a look inside the horn to see the issue?

I ask because I pulled mine apart and noticed a really bad design flaw which is easy to fix and may be the source of your problem: The very fine wire from the voice coil horn is soldered directly to two screws that you can see from outside the horn. These screws have nuts on them. It is basically impossible to remove the nuts (and examine the inside of the horn) and not rotate the screw that the voice coil wire is soldered to. The wire simply gets ripped off because its like the thickness of a hair. For some reason the lads at Pioneer chose not to provide some key detail on the screw to prevent it rotating.

Anyway I learnt this issue the hard way, and managed to resolder the wires. And this time fixed the screws with hot melt so they wont rotate. Cleaned up the pots on both speakers and they're sounding good.

Anyway I just thought there's a slim chance this may be your issue, in which case they can be fixed but it is fiddly.

 

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