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Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?

50.89.169.185
Posted on September 21, 2014 at 11:08:33
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 I cannot read German, but if you look at the big square horn, you'll notice there are slots on the four sides where Tom Danley's Synergy Horns have circles! To me, unless this company is licensed by Tom Danley to use his design, it looks like a Synergy Horn rip-off! Tom are you reading this? Do you care to comment? Can anyone here read German and tell me/us if they've copied Tom's Synergy Horns? Inquiring minds want to know!

I'm listening to: Seven Bridges by Tim Timmermans




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

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German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs, posted on September 21, 2014 at 11:23:15
weltersys
Industry Professional

Posts: 685
Location: FL
Joined: September 28, 2004
 Tom's aware of the copies, see post #1828 here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/88237-suitable-midrange-cone-bandpass-mid-unity-horn-183.html

 

RE: Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?, posted on September 21, 2014 at 13:29:15
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 5370
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Perhaps not a rip off per se, that would only apply if it was a copy, but the similarities are too great to assume that the Synergy didn't serve at the very least as inspiration for it. The way I look at it is if no one's knocking off your work you're doing something wrong.
If you want to see real examples of rip offs have a look around here:
http://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/PA_Speaker.html

Some are so blatant that they not only use the real thing's model number, they also use the real thing's manufacturer name and logo.

 

RE: German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs, posted on September 21, 2014 at 18:08:13
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Thanks weltersys!
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?, posted on September 21, 2014 at 18:34:42
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Google translate

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

Renkus Heinz, posted on September 22, 2014 at 17:11:18
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000

Co-entrant patent, check the date (expired).

 

RE: Renkus Heinz, posted on September 22, 2014 at 18:37:57
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Why do you say expired?

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Renkus Heinz, posted on September 22, 2014 at 18:43:02
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 Patents before 2000 ran for 17 years (Jun 11, 1996).

 

RE: Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?, posted on September 23, 2014 at 06:13:52
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8192
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi Tom
Thanks for the concern. My Patent lawyer has sent them a letter but so far they have not responded.
The port arrangement is certainly a problem compared to putting them in the corners but perhaps they weren’t basing this version on the measured results.
Best,
Tom

https://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts

 

RE: Renkus Heinz, posted on September 23, 2014 at 06:15:27
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8192
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi djk
This is one of the examples of “prior art” cited in the patent and while it looks similar is not accomplishing the same things acoustically nor does it radiate what appears to be a single driver and many Synergy horns also appear to be a crossover less driver.

If you don’t have a “facebook” account, you can watch Dr Jones video which goes into some of it’s operation here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz5tIAcxJB8

The design approach allows a much larger full range horn to be produced as well and those have caught on in the sports stadium area where the concert arrays would be used.

At this point, the J series synergy horns have been installed in half of the USA’s 100,000+ seat stadiums and many smaller ones.

These are VERY different sounding and much smaller and more powerful than the concert line arrays they have replaced, if you have headphones, here are a couple video’s which illustrate that;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRhqM1gjmvc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_nlt2utKLc
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnsw5mb4v5vdlwq/20120726122124.mts?dl=0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahSh4u7fefc

Best,
Tom

 

RE: Synergy for Home ???, posted on September 23, 2014 at 11:00:18
Frank Mena
Audiophile

Posts: 279
Location: S Western Ontario
Joined: May 28, 2006
 Dear Tom (tomservo):

Any possibility of making a limited run of a home version suitable for low powered tube amps (5-15 W). Crowd-funding? I for one would love to have a Synergy Horn coupled with a PPSL providing bass duties. I don't have the math background to figure out all the calc's needed.

Heck.... if you don't ask ....

Cheers
FM

 

Question?, posted on September 23, 2014 at 15:28:55
Scholl
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 1357
Joined: March 8, 2001
 Hello,

I'm wondering, what 12"ers do you use on the dual 12" subs?

I don't want to copy your designs just looking to build a dual 12" sub that'll out SPL an average single 18.

Thanks!

Scott

 

RE: Renkus Heinz, posted on September 23, 2014 at 18:27:30
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 Tom,

No offence, but the German product looks more like the Renkus Heinz design, and not yours.

 

RE: Synergy for Home ???, posted on September 23, 2014 at 18:31:30
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 6135
Joined: June 17, 2000
 I'm planning on making a dual 12 PPSL with the Dayton 295-120 that will be 100.5dB/2.83V/1M, and using a pair of 6.5" drivers on a co-entrant type horn, with a good 1" at the apex (crossover between 200hz~400hz).

 

RE: Question?, posted on September 24, 2014 at 06:02:47
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 9361
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
 BMS 12S330 might work for you.

Not sure about their availability in North America though.

 

RE: Question?, posted on September 24, 2014 at 06:29:57
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8192
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi Scholl
If you build a Tapped horn like a TH212, you would want a driver who’s Fs is somewhat above the designed low corner frequency.
With a normal horn, the rear volume is sized to compliment the inverse capacitance that the horn appears to have as one approached the low corner and when these quantities are ideal, one has “reactance annulling” and extended the lf response downward.

In the Tapped horn, that is made up by using the driver compliance alone instead of the driver compliance and rear volume. Both B&C and Faital make high power drivers which work well for this.
To make something that digs deeper and simpler to design, then the lab 12 might be an option, this work well in conventional horns, very low tuned Tapped horns and in a “vented” alignments using passive radiators.
To be clear, the DIY’r is free to build whatever they want for their own use, it is only when one copies a patented design and has a business that sells them that there is a problem.
Have fun!
Best,
Tom

 

RE: Renkus Heinz, posted on September 24, 2014 at 06:37:33
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8192
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Perhaps, but only until you examine how the drivers are mounted and how they work.
The ducts used in the prior art and their acoustic spacing prevent it from having the drivers combine to drive the horn passage as a single driver.

With the Synergy horn and earlier Unity horn, the drivers sum into what appears to be a single driver and in the Synergy horn, one can combine the outputs so that with a higher order passive crossover, they appear to have just one driver in the time domain as well. Try Doug's video on the face book page;

https://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts

 

RE: Synergy for Home ???, posted on September 24, 2014 at 06:42:09
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8192
Joined: July 4, 2002
 As much as i would like to do that and have made the pitch for it, the focus is on the larger scale sound areas where the problems with multiple sources become the limiting factor in sound quality.

I have made what might "fly" for the home but the first of these are going into recording studio's as monitoring speakers. The cosmetics would need to be more consistent with what the home market expects before they would make a good home product though.
Best,
Tom

 

RE: Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?, posted on September 24, 2014 at 06:44:04
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8192
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Yeah those folks (in China) have no end of nerve and a government that doesn't seem to care about it.
Best,
Tom

 

Bummer... thanks for responding tho.. (nt), posted on September 24, 2014 at 07:22:40
Frank Mena
Audiophile

Posts: 279
Location: S Western Ontario
Joined: May 28, 2006
 Cheers
FM

 

Tom, I sent you an e mail, posted on September 26, 2014 at 14:16:27
bcguitar
Audiophile

Posts: 1328
Location: Maryland
Joined: March 2, 2005
 get back to me when you can, Bobby

 

RE: Synergy for Home ???, posted on September 26, 2014 at 20:34:33
johny
Audiophile

Posts: 7
Location: chicago
Joined: August 11, 2009
 Tom, would you tell us more about the synergy Studio prototype? I have been enjoying a pair of SM60Fs in my home stereo system for the past 4 1/2 years and looking forward to upgrade to the Studio when they come out. I am sure they will perform much better than the SM60F in areas such as frequency response linearity and bass extension.

 

RE: Question?, posted on September 27, 2014 at 05:41:42
Scholl
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 1357
Joined: March 8, 2001
 I would like to find a LAb 12 type woofer with a reference efficiency at 90+ db and 8 ohms. A heavy duty Audio Concepts AC12 knock off.

 

RE: Tom, I sent you an e mail, posted on October 2, 2014 at 15:54:35
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Thanks Bobby I received your email and look forward to visiting you very soon!


I'm listening to: Going Home by Dan Siegel






Hot dang I love this recording...


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

Thanks Tom!, posted on October 2, 2014 at 16:03:42
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Tom you've always been a good friend to me and a real stand-up type of guy ---{which is a rare thing these days}--- so yes, I was concerned and thought it should be brought to your attention. The only reason I asked my question here first was because of my limited knowledge on building speakers. I wanted to know if the fact that this company used slots, as opposed to the circles you use inside the synergy horn, was enough of a difference to not constitute a copyright infringement. In any event I'm glad you know and your lawyer is on top of this matter.

As always all my best!

I'm listening to: Going Home by Dan Siegel





Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?, posted on October 6, 2014 at 09:36:22
claudej1@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: Detroit
Joined: August 17, 2007
 The most outrageous story from China is about an Apple employee on a vacation who walks into an "Apple store" thnking "I didn't know we had an Apple Store in this town" The entire store: the interior and exterior of the building, all the products being sold, even the T-shirts worn by the employees who all thought they worked for Apple, but the whole thing was a CLONE!

 

RE: Are These German Synergy Horn Rip-Offs?, posted on December 2, 2014 at 05:57:18
Rafaro
Audiophile

Posts: 158
Joined: July 30, 2005
 But things could always be worse, They could obtain Steve Jobs and Tom Danley DNA (Hair Follicles etc)and then we have little juniors all over the place!!!
Rafaro

 

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