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SET friendly speakers under $5k

218.186.17.245
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 08:28:30
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 Friends, I am in trouble!

I was happy with my simple setup of a Tannoy Turnberry SE with Naim amplification. I had an itch to try out tubes, especially SETs. I really liked Audio Note 300B amps but finally ended up with a Wavac EC-300B amp which is by far the best ever amp I have heard (i.e at the dealers place). But now I realize that my Tannoys are not presenting a friendly enough load to the wavac. Even at moderate volumes there is mid-bass bloat and beyond that things get all messy. I will need a speaker which works well with a 10 watt 300B SET. My budget is only about $5k (new or used). I listen to all kinds of music so it has to be an all rounder. My room size is just about 200 sqft. What are my options ?

My initial short list is:

1. Audio Note AN-J series (E might be too big for my room)
2. WLM Acoustics Diva monitor

P.S I always thought Tannoys are efficient and an easy load but that doesnt seem to be the case. People who have used the older Monitor Gold series also told me they cannot use a 10 watt SET, at least a 20 watter is needed. Are there any Tannoy models that are really efficient ?

 

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RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 28, 2013 at 08:33:38
EduardG
Audiophile

Posts: 284
Location: So. Cal
Joined: May 30, 2002
 Slimline by Edgarhorn. This one is hard to beat. From time to time you might see a used Slimline being offered for sale. Otherwise contact Edgarhorn directly.

 

you have the cart before the horse, posted on July 28, 2013 at 14:48:57
bwb
 .

You listened to a system at the dealer so how did you determine that it was the best amp you have heard? What speakers were you listening to. Since speakers are the most colored component in the chain perhaps those are what you seek.

So here is what you need to think about.

You could hook up 10 different 300B amps to a set of highly efficient speakers and they would sound very similar.

You could hook up a single 300B amp to 10 different highly efficient speakers and they would sound very different, at least in respect to the differences you heard with the 10 amps and some would sound very different, like Lowther in a back loaded horn versus Avantgarde versus open baffles.

my point?

It is the speaker that you should focus on and THEN the amp, not the way you are doing it.

.

.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 28, 2013 at 17:24:31
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 I don't own a Wavac but I understand many who do use Altec or GPA 604's with good results. I have 604-8G's in Altec 620 cabinets and they work quite well with 300B, 2A3 or kt88 single ended amps that I have. They didn't match well with a Bryston 3B that I had sitting around.

 

if you like tannoy, posted on July 28, 2013 at 22:13:49
bouncy ball
Audiophile

Posts: 1221
Location: British Columbia
Joined: July 26, 2003
 I'll suggest you stick with tannoy and find another amp that match better with your Turnberry or move up to more expansive Alcomax type tannoy speaker, they are definitely more SET friendly.
Lots of speaker will "work" better with 300b but will such combo work for you is another story.
just my 2 cents.

 

Borrow ClassA SS amps & keep Tannoy Turnberry SE , posted on July 28, 2013 at 22:25:35
scooter


 
SPEAKERS before AMPs.
SPEAKERS before AMPs.

If you enjoy your Tannoy Turnberry SE it would be worth the effort to borrow a couple low wattage ClassA solid state amps and drive with a very simple, very clean front end as an experiment.

Perhaps some old Krell KMA 100 mono blocks; Spectral DMA100; John Curl Parasound; Nelson Pass First Watt.

SPEAKERS before AMPs.

 

AN(UK) Speakers, posted on July 29, 2013 at 02:29:22
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Both speakers go quite low. This would be a problem if your room has resonant frequencies in the mid-bass, because this will make the deep bass really boomy.

Another thing AN speakers like AN amps because of their warmth. I suspect the Waveacs are also somewhat warm: the more power, the more distortion. AN is a master at turning distortion into a loveable sound in its 300B amps.

 

If you like the Tannoys keep them., posted on July 29, 2013 at 06:28:45
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 9361
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
 The speakers influence on the sound you hear is orders of magnitude greater than that of an amp and it is a lot harder to find decent speakers than decent electronics.

Also Tannoys are very addictive in my experience. I've tried others since I got mine but they never really satisfy after Tannoy DCs.
There were Tannoys with a higher efficiency (215DMT, 101dB/1W) but even those only really give their best when driven with a nice, juicy SS amp.

An ATC amp might be a good match, enough power and they run in Class A until they exceed 2/3 of rated output.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 29, 2013 at 10:14:14
David Lawrence
Audiophile

Posts: 315
Location: North Dakota
Joined: April 23, 2007
 I agree with those who say that you should keep the speakers. Without comparing with speakers I have now, considering them on their own terms, I wish I had never sold my Tannoy Stirling TW's, which I had been using with SET amps, especially SE 300b's (Thorsen Loesch's Legacy circuit with Tango XE60-3.5S) There are many ways to great sound with tube amps. Now overall I prefer my triode connected, McShaned Citation II to the 300b amps, which I still have. A natural sound, and better with more material. Everything has strengths and weaknesses. Push-pull tetrodes & pentodes, whether or not triode-wired can sound great. I briefly tried my old Atma-Sphere M60 OTL's with the Tannoys, and they sounded excellent-greatly alive and transparent. Higher power SE transmitting triodes can sound great, though I never tried them on Tannoys. My guess is that push-pull 211's or 845's would be terrific with Tannoys. Even aside from impedance/damping, Tannoy's have their own warmth, and probably don't need the extra warmth from SE300b's anyway. My $.02.

David

 

Tannoys 93db sensitivity. Recommend: 30 - 150 watts, posted on July 29, 2013 at 13:15:01
scooter


 
"P.S I always thought Tannoys are efficient and an easy load but that doesnt seem to be the case."

Worth the effort to borrow a low power ClassA solid state amp.

Specifications
Power Rating: 100 watt RMS (250 watt peak)
Recommended Amplifier Power: 30 - 150 watt/channel
Sensitivity ( 2,83 V at 1 m): 93 dB
Maximum SPL: 113 dB at 1m for 100 watt RMS (117 dB at 1m for 250 watt peak)
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ω
Minimum Impedance: 5,5 Ω
Frequency Response: 35 Hz - 25 kHz , ±3 dB (port mid position)
Crossover Frequencies: 1,3 kHz
Crossover Control: ±3 dB over 1,3 kHz to 25 kHz shelving;
Crossover Type: 1st order LF; 1st order HF,
Bi-wired, hard-wired, passive, low-loss, time compensated Type 1134
Driver Type: 10-inch Dual Concentric High Compliance Type 2598
Enclosure Type: Dual variable distributet port system
Enclosure Volume: 68 litre
Dimensions (H x W x D): 700 x 486 x 310 mm; (850 x 525 x 380 mm packed)Weight: 22 kg complete (27 kg packed)
Enclosure Material: Solid walnut with 18 mm particle board, crossbracing and heavy internal damping

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 29, 2013 at 17:34:51
lokie
Audiophile

Posts: 1989
Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: January 28, 2003
 Try to find a pair of these locally.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 29, 2013 at 21:11:55
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 In General Audio Note sounds more energetic and lively than Tannoy speakers. If you can set up AN speakers properly (and it's not always possible) you can get a speaker that can pressurize a room that is quite phenomenal from a speaker their size. Tannoy also seems tougher to drive than their spec sheets. Don't get me wrong I like the sound of Tannoy - I own a pair of Tannoy speakers.

Now with the AN E and J the J is easier to drive and it's easier to get right in lesser rooms because it doesn't go as low in the bass - it avoids bass/room interaction problems. The K is even better in that regard and being an acoustic suspension speakers but to me the treble isn't in quite the same class.

The J is a nice match for the OTO but many find the OTO runs out of gas with the E. The OTO is an 8-10 watt integrated amp but measured in Hi-Fi Choice as 4.2 watts undistorted. The OTO/AN J combo is a popular match and I have it myself. The fact is plenty of people like the J more than the E - the J doesn't get the talk because it's not the most expensive model in their line-up but they do make $20k+ versions of this speaker and people pay those prices.

Jack Roberts who owns your amplifier has the Teresonic Ingenium loudspeakers - These are single drivers and sound absolutely fantastic. It will depend I suppose on the system and your take on the midrange and dynamic envelope - The Teresonic Ingenium may very well be worth a listen and they are over 100db sensitive and have no crossover to slug the sound. Still the AN E and J have a bigger dynamic envelope.

Bigger horns have bigger dynamics and "dynamic ease" over the AN's as well - so it's kind of a balancing act - which trade off - how much trade-off suits your needs.

ATC was mentioned and frankly the ATC SCM 150 sounds utterly superb with my Line Magnetic 219IA 24 watt SET integrated. I could get at ear damage levels with the SET. The meters however did go above 15 watts and your amp would run out of guts.

So go with a higher sensitive AN or Teresonic or horn (but a good one not using anything resembling plastic materials which rules out avantgarde and that sort of thing.

 

RE: Plastic Horns, posted on July 29, 2013 at 22:20:14
belyin
Audiophile

Posts: 1285
Location: New Orleans
Joined: November 1, 2003
 Is your objection to plastic horns theoretical or based on experience? I'm using Oris 150 horns (plastic) with AER drivers, and I hear no artifacts that suggest plastic (or any other material for that matter. If it weren't for their very small sweet spot, they would seem to sound free of any material quality at all–a window into the music, so to speak.) They are far superior to the Altec Valencias (with metal 811 horns) that I used to have, as well as any other speakers I have had in my system.

 

RE: Plastic Horns, posted on July 30, 2013 at 09:27:08
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 based on my experience with Avantegarde, Klipsch and DIY non plastic horns - the latter sounding the best.

Perhaps it's the overall implementation over the material itself (or for that matter the type of plastic since it varies widely).

 

Teresonic Magus A55s though that amp deserves the Ingeniums with the DX4 Silver drivers. NT , posted on July 30, 2013 at 16:35:28
jnr
Reviewer

Posts: 2164
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: April 5, 2000
 NT
theaudiobeatnik.com

 

How is the resolution of Altec 604 ?, posted on July 30, 2013 at 19:02:20
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 Is it worth matching a $25k amp to the Altec 604 ? Will it have the resolution to bring out what the Wavac offers ?

 

I was also considering AN-J, which particular model do you suggest ?, posted on July 30, 2013 at 19:03:39
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 There are so many variations of this speaker, which is their sweet spot ?

 

Thanks JnR. Can single drivers do rock ?, posted on July 30, 2013 at 19:08:40
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 I am not a hard rock guy. But I listen to a lot of classic rock which does require the speaker to handle crowded bands elegantly. One of the criticism of single drivers has been their relative weakness in handling big bands. Will the Teresonic handle it well ?

 

AN is the simplest choice...., posted on July 30, 2013 at 19:16:00
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 When I decide to sell my Tannoys, AN-UK will be the first speaker brand I will check out.

 

Tannoy Turnberry impedance curve, posted on July 30, 2013 at 19:20:06
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 This is the impedance curve I got from Tannoy factory




 

Has anyone heard Kochel Horns or Horning speakers, posted on July 30, 2013 at 19:23:25
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 I have been reading about the Kochel K200 horns and Horning Aristotle. Both seem to be highly regarded. Both are SET friendly and supposedly work very well with EC-300B. Has anyone heard any of these speakers. Some first hand information would be very helpful.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 31, 2013 at 08:36:44
jsm71
Audiophile

Posts: 1123
Location: Cincinnati OH
Joined: June 16, 2011
 Decware speakers may be something to consider. They have circled their entire history around high efficiency speakers and SET amps, only recently offering somewhat higher powered amps. The website is also quite full of information and customer feedback.

 

RE: How is the resolution of Altec 604 ?, posted on July 31, 2013 at 11:46:33
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 There are a lot of people with very high end systems that seem quite happy with the 604's. Naturally, everyone has their own opinion.
If I was looking for max performance and had a 25K amp, I would be listening to as many speakers as possible.
Also, if you're asking here and get 10 responses, you'll likely get 10 different opinions based on the poster's currently owned system. No one likes to think that their equipment isn't the best. Except me of course. I'm totally unbiased.
If you have the green for the Wavacs, why limit speaker choices to under 5K?

 

RE: Thanks JnR. Can single drivers do rock ?, posted on July 31, 2013 at 18:09:32
jnr
Reviewer

Posts: 2164
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: April 5, 2000
 The Teresonics most certainly can. I listen to a lot of 70s rock and big band jazz. Remember Lowthers were Hendrix's favorite speakers.
theaudiobeatnik.com

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on July 31, 2013 at 20:28:07
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 Just one more thought for me. If I had an amp that was $25K new, I wouldn't buy a speaker that was frequency limited.
I owned lowthers in mauhorn IV cabs and while they excelled at the low mids and up, they had no bass. I'm sure the makers of newer speakers have discovered how to circumvent physical laws and make full range speakers that are only 3" dia.
Take a look at what you can get that you can listen to. I think you'll be happier with something you like more than something another person prefers.

 

How about the Altec 605 ?, posted on July 31, 2013 at 23:52:03
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 It is cheaper and easier to find but are they nearly as good as the 604 ?

 

RE: How about the Altec 605 ?, posted on August 1, 2013 at 07:13:03
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 My experience with them is limited to a few listening sessions but I think they're more similar than not.
The cabinet is what tends to distinguish one version over another to me. If you have an optimal box for them, either the 604 or 605 can perform very well.
I had PM6A Lowthers in Mauhorn IV cabinets for about 4 years and after I heard the 604's I sold the Lowthers and got the Altecs. I also have a pair of model 19's which get a lot of play at our house. The Altecs sound more like full range speakers than the lowthers or some other single driver approaches that I've heard. You get more realistic bass and don't have that annoying peak that many single driver types do.

 

RE: Has anyone heard Kochel Horns or Horning speakers, posted on August 1, 2013 at 08:28:37
mes
Audiophile

Posts: 834
Joined: August 7, 2001
 I had the K300 many moons ago and drove them w a Cary 300B and Garber 2a3 monoblocks w Tango trannies. Nice speakers, but the back loaded bass was somewhat anemic and a tad muddy. Mids and highs were quite good and they are an easy load. Had the Eufrodite w the Horning amps and although quite good, even the modded Lowther still was not my cup of tea and fell apart at higher volumes. Perhaps I'm just not a Lowther kinda guy. Living Voice is a potential choice and often come up used for circa $5K. I drove them easily w a Shindo Cortese (10W) and upper mid level (how many levels can a co. have) AN 300B monoblocks (I think around 12W). Although a wee bit boxy, they sounded great. A relatively easy load which your Wavac should have no problem with. To my ears better than the Kochel or horning.

 

RE: I was also considering AN-J, which particular model do you suggest ?, posted on August 1, 2013 at 12:02:49
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Tough to say because they changed over to HEMP woofers - I was impressed by the copper wired versions of the E and K in Hong Kong - the dealer owns the J but they had sold out of them so I have not heard any of the newer models.

It kinda depends on the rest of the system - I think the Silver wired speakers are designed for an all Audio Note system. I remember hearing the SPe on an all AN system and the silver wires soundeded considerably better. However with a non AN system - they sounded sterile leaning and I preferred the copper wired version.

I bought the SPe model over the copper because at that time it was something like $300 difference so not a big deal.

I have a U.S. Price sheet for the J and E (The E is designed for 80-200 square foot rooms)

J/LX - $4644
J/LX (Hemp) $5040
J/Spe $6088
J/Spe (Hemp) $6416
J/SE Hemp $14,365
J/SE SE Silver $20,557
J/SEC Hemp $39,774


AN E/LX $6811
AN E/LX (Hemp) $7216
AN E/LX (Hemp) HE $8722
AN E/SPE $7554
AN E/Spe (Hemp) $7896
AN E/SPE (HEMP) HE $9288
...
AN E/SOGON $238,464

The Hemp is worth going for as I think it's a big step up over the paper which I have. And it's less than $400 upgrade.

The J has an easier impedance according to Hi-Fi Choice so they're easier to drive than comparable E's so probably MUCH better suited to a 8-10 watt SET. This is clearly evidenced by the fact that Audio Note brought out HE versions of the E to mate to their 8 watt 2A3 amplifiers and SETs.

While the J doesn't have the E's bass it will better single drivers and will suffer less room induced boom. The E is better if you can get them to work right in your room but they share a very similar sound.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 1, 2013 at 20:21:38
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 From my experience, the Teresonic is light years ahead of any AN speaker! NOT CLOSE! The Usher Mini Dancer Two, at only $5,000, DESTROYS ANY AN speaker. Listen at the same SPLs with the same records.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 1, 2013 at 22:22:07
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Why do you respond to my posts? Why are you capitalizing responses and saying the exact same things over and over and over? We get it.

 

RE: Plastic Horns, posted on August 2, 2013 at 08:44:46
EduardG
Audiophile

Posts: 284
Location: So. Cal
Joined: May 30, 2002
 Yes, implementation is the key word. The Avantegarde are gorgeous, but to my ears, they ring like hell. Having had experience in fiberglass boatbuilding, I built 340 Hz fiberglass tractrix horns for my Edgarhorn inspired system. I built them over a male mold. They are .5" thick (!) and completely dead.

 

RE: Plastic Horns, posted on August 2, 2013 at 12:05:15
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I wonder what the Avantgarde issue is? They are very expensive and I hear some good thing in them but they present a tunnel vision sound and not relaxing to me.

 

You Bet They Can!, posted on August 2, 2013 at 12:34:51
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 I have Sachiko double-back-loaded horns with Dayton PS220-8 eight inch fullrange drivers ---{don't laugh, they replaced $1.8K Fostex FE208ES-R drivers within 1 min listening}--- they have had their cones modded with a special treatment, but they can play jazz as good as anything I've heard and on the next recording play YES or Led Zeppelin as loud as I'd ever care to listen without distorting!

The Sachikos are now called the Kirishima and can be found at www.diy.com Any local cabinet maker can make you a beautiful set in the veneer of your choice for under $3K! I've been using mine for years now and haven't looked back since! I started with Fostex FE206E went to Fostex FE206ES-R moved up to the Fostex FE208ES-R and finally choose the $250/pr Dayton PS220-8 with a cone treatment that cost more than the drivers, but hot damn are they special!

I know a fellow who recently replaced the Lowthers in his Lamhorn 1.8 with the same Dayton drivers I'm using. Yes they're THAT good! I'd be happy to hook you two up "IF" you'd like to know more...

I'm listening to:




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 2, 2013 at 13:45:40
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 BOY! Talk about some poster who says THE SAME THING, OVER AND OVER!!! I repeat: the Usher Mini Two does everything better than the twice as costly AN E. Compare the two with your best recordings.

 

RE: Plastic Horns, posted on August 2, 2013 at 16:17:47
EduardG
Audiophile

Posts: 284
Location: So. Cal
Joined: May 30, 2002
 I find the Avantgards very fatiguing and bright. I just can't relax and enjoy the music when listening to them. I ascribe this - in spite of the hefty price tag - to their flimsy construction more than anything. Thin plastic/fiberglass/metal will ring if not treated and you will hear it. And I don't need to hear references to so eloquently articulated opinions to the contrary by some highly regarded (and paid) reviewers - I trust my ears.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 2, 2013 at 18:41:55
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I have heard the speaker - I have heard the Usher Be - I have heard the LS 50 4 times, I have heard Dunlavey, I have heard ARC. I have heard a jaw dropping amount of gear over the last two decades - and so has Art Dudley and so has Wes Philips.

AN E

"Forget best sound of show, for sheer emotional delivery, timbral clarity, dynamic agility, and, yes, the highest fidelity, the Audio Note system may have been the best hi-fi I have ever heard. It was one of those magical moments that we audiophiles put up with all of the hassles for.

After the Audio Note demo. the rest was noise, so I quit on a winner. Not many people who come to Vegas can say that." Wes Philips(Stereophile)

Yeah - I think I'll put my bet on Wes Philips over forum nutters.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 2, 2013 at 20:36:38
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 Not a recent review. Art and you are the outliners on the AN gear. Usher, and many others, eat them for lunch!

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 3, 2013 at 02:20:14
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Outliners?(sic) not a recent review?

You do know that at least one reviewer owns Audio Note speakers off the top of my head from the following publications:

6Moons
Dagogo
Stereophile
Soundstage
Audiophile
Positve Feedback
enjoythemusic.com
Hi-Fi Review

I think it's you who are an outlier. The AN E has been selling since 1982 (then as Snell) and AN has models of the AN E that can command and HAS commanded up to $240,000US a pair! It commands those prices because it does for a lot of people what it did for Wes Philips - something no other speaker did for him.

So umm a speaker that sells for 30 years, also sells piles of kits, sells all over the world at high prices for unspectacular looks and sells more than they can build illustrates a sought after loudspeaker.

The OP is after a SET friendly speaker and your idiotic suggestion is the Dancer - a 4ohm 90db speaker? These are not remotely designed for SET amplifiers. I like Usher but they're not designed for SET amps - take notice of what amplifiers speaker makers bring to shows - umm this is something we call a CLUE as to what they're designed for. When I went to Usher's rooms it was some sort of 200-400 watt SS amp!

 

RGA wins, posted on August 3, 2013 at 07:40:07
Alnicoman
Audiophile

Posts: 330
Location: Minnesota
Joined: August 1, 2003
 His points hold water.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 3, 2013 at 09:23:09
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 Wes Phillips, unless I'm missing something, is no longer a reviewer, and his comments were long ago. I will give you this: you surely know more about forum nutters than I do!

 

Usher ?????, posted on August 3, 2013 at 09:28:30
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 I have heard many Ushers, including the Be20. To me they are just average stuff. I have heard them with some serious solid state and tube gears and all of them sounded "decent", thats about it. I will not even take them for free because I dont have surplus storage space at my home.

 

RE: I was also considering AN-J, which particular model do you suggest ?, posted on August 3, 2013 at 09:33:51
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 So, looks like the worthy option is AN-J/LX Hemp. Thanks RGA. I will get an audition of AN-J and then take a call.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 3, 2013 at 09:41:08
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 I don't follow 6 moons, or most of the others. I checked them once or twice, and found nothing as good as the reviewers at Stereophile or TAS continually do. I used to follow JR at dagogo until he went on a spending binge. JR moved from the AN E to better speakers long ago. BTW, JA measured the AN E's at 91 dB. Plus, they are highly colored, chesty on vocals, and rolled off in the highs. Here are two more highly sensitive AND accurate speakers: the Coincident Super Victory and the Acoustic Zen Crescendo.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 3, 2013 at 12:14:56
Tidycat1
 I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Coincident Technology speakers.They are high efficiency and benign impedance.
The other question is your room size.
I have heard 10Ws on a 90db/9 ohm speaker and was impressed.Heard 18W on the same speaker and it was a no-go.
Look at at least 8-9 ohm or above and 93+ eff.
Hope this has helped

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 3, 2013 at 15:37:38
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Wes Philips is still a Stereophile reviewer battling an illness.

Please list 5 Audiophile grade production loudspeakers that retail at $3k+ that have been selling CONSECUTIVELY as the SAME model for 20+ years.

The Audio Note E and J and K are three models.

The difference in designation applies to the wiring used - same cabinets same drivers. They can't keep up with their orders and Audio Note has a separate facility just to build the loudspeakers.


Measurements? People who can't hear have to use that tactic. There is no perfect measuring loudspeaker - doesn't REMOTELY exist. Anyone who has any clue would then realize that one must choose the strengths and weakness they can live with.

The Teresonic Ingenium and single driver loudspeakers have certain advantages over two ways and two ways have certain advantages over three ways and vice versa.

What Works in Jack's room and works for his wife and works for me or someone else will not be the same. I auditioned the Teresonic Ingenium and chose it in the top 5 rooms I heard at CES. When some clown comes on a forum and says it's destroys the AN E has no clue about audio. The AN E has several advantages over the Teresonic - It has a large dynamic window - it hass deeper bass response and can pressurize a room (something that probably never could happen in Jack's room judging but the pictures of his room). The Teresonic has a supremely clear "window" to the midrange that 2 way speakers from anyone does not match. That's a a huge strength of the speaker. But on electronic music the AN E has far more balls than what Teresonic could generate and the speaker doesn't pressurize a room.

Teresonic is maybe the best single driver production model producer I've heard along with the Aporia Full Range from Silbatone. Zu Audio is the affordable line.

This is why I suggested the Teresonic - it's up to the OP based on what he listens to which way he wants to go - I could live with the Aporia, the Teresonic and the AN's.

 

RE: I was also considering AN-J, which particular model do you suggest ?, posted on August 3, 2013 at 15:45:24
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 You can always try silver since you're using SET and not some harsh SS amp.

If you were in British columbia you could talk to me about my AN J/Spe. I am debating whether to ship my speakers to Hong Kong or buy a new pair when I am over there.

I had to sell my beloved Audio Note TT2 due to the voltage and frequency difference in Asia - Turntables don't travel well in this regard.



 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 4, 2013 at 23:18:11
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 Perhaps you have finalised on an AN speaker by now. I wanted to suggest Rethm Trishna speakers for you to audition. Check out if available nearby.

You dont like Plinius amps anymore?!

Cheers
Bill

 

RE: You Bet They Can!, posted on August 6, 2013 at 04:46:16
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 3852
Joined: December 6, 2001
 good to hear - I would have picked up the Daytons when they were cheap but Partsexpress published a funky graph which made it look like it had built-in BSC which might compliment a narrow enclosure but not work so well in a Karlson enclosure - I do have 1772, stamped frame AN8 and Fostex
Karlson Evangelist

 

RE: You Bet They Can!, posted on August 7, 2013 at 15:06:48
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Hi Freddy!

Thanks for responding. Truth is I was actually amazed that they blew away the Fostex FE208ES-R drivers. And hot dang they play loud and clear like no fullrange driver I've ever heard before! I know the cone treatment plays a large part in all this because I directly compared treated PS220-8 vs non-treated PS220-8 drivers in the Sachikos and had I only heard untreated PS220-8 drivers I would have not been even slightly interested!

In all honesty after using the Sachikos for 5 years now. The combo of the Sachiko/PS220-8 is the most amazing I've ever heard any fullrange driver sound in any cabinet. I'm sure there's some fullrange driver in a cabinet that sounds better, I just haven't heard it and I bet it didn't cost only $3.7 built by professionals. I know that listening to this would convert even those who like Led Zeppelin, YES, Magnum, EL&P etc. into the real possibility using fullrange drivers and SET amps...

I'm listening to:




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

Single drivers suffer from Doppler Distortion., posted on August 8, 2013 at 07:43:10
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 When driven hard.

Jeff Medwin

 

BERYLLIUM ADDICTION, posted on August 8, 2013 at 10:25:27
scooter


 
If you are interested in building “the latest thing” in high efficiency speakers.

The Radian speaker company is starting to sample their well reviewed 745NEOPB 1.4” compression driver with a Beryllium diaphragm that has measurements showing no break-up modes between 700Hz and 18Khz. The LeCleach JMLC350 fiberglass horn is considered an ideal mate for the Radian 745NEOPB. An Altec or GPA(USA clone) Alnico 416 woofer is commonly recommended.

Lynn Olson in the USA has designed the crossovers for this 2-way combination. Design and purchase information in toward the end of this long thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-917.html


============
Phone a friend with medium power ClassA solid state amps to test with your Tannoy Turnberry SE to get all the data before you switch.

 

RE: Plastic Horns, posted on August 8, 2013 at 10:49:23
Don Reid
Audiophile

Posts: 890
Location: Rural NW Georgia
Joined: February 2, 2001
Contributor
  Since: April 1, 2010
 I too use Oris 150 horns driven by AER (MD-3) drivers. I don't hear any colorations, but then as recently as 60 years ago I could hear much better than I can now. Even though I didn't hear any ringing or other colorations I applied three thick bands of Mortite around the horn, one at the mouth, one about one-third of the way from the mouth to the throat and one around the throat. I didn't hear any ringing with the Oris horns before applying the Morite, but now I hear even less.

For years I used Cary Audio 2a3 SET monoblocks to power the drivers in the Oris Horns. It was a perfect match. The Carys began giving me so much trouble that I sold them and replaced them with Nelson Passe's First Watt F3 amps. I haven't finalized an opinion of the First Watts vs. the 2a3 monoblocks, but the F3s do sound very good.
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.

 

RE: Usher ?????, posted on August 8, 2013 at 21:00:37
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 Well, we will have to disagree. I heard the dancers at the 2011 CAS, and they DESTROYED all but a few systems. That was with my reference vinyl records.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 8, 2013 at 21:06:34
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 Yes, the AN Es can play louder, but they are inaccurate and colored. Voices sound chesty, and trumpets lack realistic punch. The Teresonics deliver high-end sound, and the ANs sound pleasant, mellow, and BORING!

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 9, 2013 at 21:30:11
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 20+ consecutive years - can't keep up with demand. Guess people like boring.

I know you can';t fathom it but it would occur to the average person that some find them entertaining and exciting with a lot of verve.

" I had goosebumps—and despite all evidence to the contrary, I'd have sworn my hair was standing on end. Forget best sound of show, for sheer emotional delivery, timbral clarity, dynamic agility, and, yes, the highest fidelity, the Audio Note system may have been the best hi-fi I have ever heard. It was one of those magical moments that we audiophiles put up with all of the hassles for."


Then again the AN E and AN J never rise above 0.6% THD at any frequency and a mere 0.2%THD in the bass.

Some people need a whopping and highly CRAPPY 10% THD in their loudspeakers and perceive distortion as exciting - people with good ears perceive it as distortion - LOL.

 

RE: You Bet They Can!, posted on August 10, 2013 at 05:03:58
Catastrofe


 
Have you thought about trying Audio Nirvana drivers in your cabinets? There's a pair of 8 inchers over on AC. . .

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 10, 2013 at 21:03:53
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 Hi Bill,
After listening to Tannoys for about 1.5 years I have become more of big driver guy now. I somehow get bored with small driver sound even though I think they are nice in many ways. I dont get that kick out of listening through them.

 

I still like the Plinius, but only the older ones, posted on August 10, 2013 at 21:06:17
Plinius_Fan
Audiophile

Posts: 422
Location: Singapore
Joined: August 4, 2006
 Integrated amplifiers like 8100, 8150 and 8200 MK2. Power amps like SA50 and SA102 and the likes. I would love to listen to a SA250 MK4 some day.

 

RE: SET friendly speakers under $5k, posted on August 11, 2013 at 05:19:23
k-k-k-kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 552
Location: Melbourne
Joined: May 5, 2007
 It's worth having a listen to WLM if you can: I am very happy with a combination of WLM Lyra and Wavac MD811 - punch, grip, subtlety, shimmer are all there.
You might also listen to something based on Phy-HP co-axial drivers, if you get the chance, thought it may be a bit beyond your budget. In their unobtrusive way they are pretty special - I've not heard better piano, for example, and Phil Lesh's bass bounces just beautifully out of them.

 

RE: BERYLLIUM ADDICTION, posted on August 11, 2013 at 11:08:45
hvbias
Audiophile

Posts: 396
Location: New Hampshire
Joined: December 18, 2005
 Have you heard Lynn's new speakers?

 

RE: How is the resolution of Altec 604 ?, posted on August 11, 2013 at 16:57:07
gortnipper
Audiophile

Posts: 866
Location: Seattle expat in Auckland
Joined: November 28, 2003
 I have some GPA 604s, and resolution is dependent on the implementation. It is also very dependent on the xo.

I think I would do this if I were in the market for a ~$5k budget speaker:

http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604E%20Series%20II%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crossover-Frequenzweiche-fur-Altec-604-605-Special-Edition-/221266900869?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Einzelteile&hash=item338488f785

And make/have made a big MLTL or 620 cab.

But, I am biased....

 

RE: You Bet They Can!, posted on October 24, 2016 at 17:10:06
mjw25a@gmail.com
 So, what is this special cone treatment you're referring to? Can it bad done afterwards? How did it affect the sound vs stock?

I'm currently running this speakers untreated and they sound fantastic in my system in some 60's vintage unbranded ported cabinets. Before break in they were overly bright though after break in they're detail, nuanced and neutral. Revealing in a way only full rangers can be. I find it hard to imagine it sounding better, though if it can be then I'm happy to give it a go.

Regards

Matt

 

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