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Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly

108.29.171.166
Posted on April 23, 2016 at 10:48:12
diw
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 I purchased the recent Channel Classics Ning Feng release, which includes Lalo Symphonie Espagnole, from amazon.com and received a CD. I was very surprised by this, and wrote Channel. I received this reply from Jared:

"On looking at numbers of last year's sales, we could have saved almost 30,000 euros by releasing the CD instead of the SACD. Since 90% of sales are really for those that want the normal CD I had to make this decision. Except for artists where I know I can sell enough, I will have to just press the normal pcm and have the DSD files as downloads in stereo and Multichannel.
We release the music to promote the artist. If the artist does well we can sell our recordings. So the money saved can go to do what we are supposed to be doing. We could never really push the extra costs onto the consumer which meant we had to absorb this cost."

So going forward, it's unclear which if any recordings will be released as SACD, perhaps the recordings from Budapest but I doubt much else. As a result, we have Tchaikovsky Symphony 6 being released on both Channel and Reference Recordings later this month. On the other hand, the Lalo concerto, which is a mainstay of the classical repertoire and not yet available on SACD, will not be released on SACD. This bodes poorly for the format.

I know some of you are into MC DSD downloads, but I still prefer physical media. This is very sad. Channel was my favorite SACD label.

 

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RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 23, 2016 at 18:14:29
PAR
 Yes, it is indeed sad. However shortly there will inevitably also be few, and soon no, SACD players being produced. So Channel Classic's decision is only part of the demise of SACD.

The dominant (only?) chip used for decoding SACD and which was included in most OEM SACD mechanisms was made by Sony who ceased to produce it years ago. Recently the back stocks of them held by the manufacturers has either run out or the chips are in such short supply that the small number remaining are being retained for prestige projects only. There are a few exceptions to this but they prove the rule, so to speak. No OEM SACD mechanisms are now available.

So, aside from those with legacy players, it will be impossible for consumers to play SACDs. Thus the the few record companies who continue to support the format will find it economically unviable due to limited demand. As have Channel Classics.

As the co-inventors of the format; Sony giveth, Sony taketh away.

 

Can you cite a source, posted on April 23, 2016 at 18:58:19
madisonears
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 for any of that? Not interested in internet rumors or speculation, but I would appreciate knowing if it's true. Thanks.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

RE: Can you cite a source, posted on April 24, 2016 at 04:23:36
PAR
 I appreciate your desire not to rely upon speculation. However I can assure you that what I said is the case.

Unfortunately I cannot provide you with anything online to verify this as there were no press releases etc. The story emerges from business to business relationships between manufacturers and suppliers. You will find the story, at least in part and with loads of resulting speculation, on other forums such as the Steve Hoffman (postings from last year).

My source for the story is impeccable - one of the high end manufacturers whose product line has now been affected and who have been forced to virtually withdraw from the SACD player market due to no availability of OEM SACD mechanisms. They continue to manufacture a very limited output of SACD transports for the time being which rely exclusively on their back stock of mechanisms. This is despite this particular manufacturer having been one of the format's developers.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 24, 2016 at 06:01:12
vahe
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 Looking at my somewhat modest SACD collection I have more BIS than any other label followed by Channel Classics, if Channel drops SACD then I will stop buying their products, BIS for a long time gave us similar warnings but I keep my fingers crossed, they are still offering the format. With Channel the handwriting was on the wall a long time ago with their super cheap cardboard packaging.

Personally I prefer physical media and if hi-rez becomes download only option then I will simply give up SACD.

Despite all the gloom I believe that SACD will not totally disappear, Japanese will carry the torch but at much higher price.

Vahe

 

PAR - I've found your posts to be very credible and truthful over the years [nt], posted on April 24, 2016 at 08:26:39
Chris from Lafayette
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RE: PAR - I've found your posts to be very credible and truthful over the years [nt], posted on April 24, 2016 at 09:59:03
PAR
 Chris, thank you for your support. I do try to be straightforward and hope that I generally succeed in this.

 

Since nothing else is multichannel but Blu-ray Audio..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 11:04:29
jeffreybehr
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 ...and that too is a commercial nonsuccess, at least as far as I can see, then I guess I'll get into downloads and all that screwing around with servers, players, software, etc. Yuk!

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 24, 2016 at 12:53:56
vahe
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 My internet download speed is 12 Mbps, out of curiosity what does this translate in the total time needed to download a 40 minute symphony in stereo and or multichannel?

Just a ballpark number please, and thanks for your help.

Vahe

 

"all that screwing around with servers, players, software, etc.", posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:32:49
Chris from Lafayette
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 It's not half as bad as one might imagine from many of the discussions here. ;-)

 

Your download speed is not the only variable, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:47:56
Chris from Lafayette
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 Another factor would be what's happening at the other end, i.e., how fast the server there can satisfy requests, etc.

Yet another factor would be if the file you're downloading is compressed, and if so, how it's compressed. My internet download speed is between 50Mbps and 80Mbps (depending on the particular date and time of day), and it took me less than 15 minutes to download the BIS Stravinsky recording in my thread below. This is for a 65 minute multi-channel album, which has a size of 2.89 GB in its FLAC incarnation (6.7 GB converted to AIFF). The FLAC files were further compressed into a ZIP archive, which probably also helped with the download speed.

 

In other words..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:56:48
madisonears
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 at this time, it is an internet rumor, with you as the sole source.

Peace,
Tom E
berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

People have track records, and if you check PAR's previous posts here. . . , posted on April 24, 2016 at 19:09:32
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . he's definitely not a rumor monger.

EDIT: BTW, with regard to the OP on this thread, Jared has been saying he was going to do this for years, so no one should be surprised that he's about to cut back on physical media releases in favor of he-rez downloads. And if you want proof, Jared said so to me and a number of other listeners when he visited my house a couple of years ago. So if you don't believe me, I've got witnesses! ;-)

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 24, 2016 at 20:10:28
flyingdutchman
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 I think Oppo will still have SACD work on their players.

 

Jared and downloads, posted on April 24, 2016 at 20:14:12
diw
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 Chris:
Jared has certainly indicated he was moving the company towards downloaded content. No surprise there. If you reread my OP, you will see that what surprised me was that I ordered a Channel disc from amazon assuming it would be an SACD and receiving a dreaded CD. Really a shame too. I was so looking forward to finally having a version of the Lalo concerto on SACD, a real missed opportunity IMO. A Channel cello concerto disc was one of my very first SACD's, so it's a real shock for me to see that label give up on the format. Especially given Jared's appreciation of both DSD recording and Multichannel.
Dave

 

RE: Jared and downloads, posted on April 24, 2016 at 23:25:30
Chris from Lafayette
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 Dave - I see where you're coming from. I have some of those Channel Classics Wispelway recordings (with orchestra and with Lazic on the piano), and they're wonderful!

However, since you mentioned the Lalo Concerto in particular, I very highly recommend the following (on SACD!):



As you may know, I feel that I'm a connoisseur of many of the recordings of babe musicians, but I do have this recording myself, and I can assure you that Ms. Rochat gives an excellent performance which I suspect many listeners would love - even disregarding the booklet cover! ;-)

And as you can see, it's even DSD-sourced. And BTW, the Milhaud Concerto is not bad at all (one of the better Milhaud works that I've heard, actually), so the disc may also satisfy your sense of musical adventurism!

 

RE: Jared and downloads, posted on April 25, 2016 at 03:09:57
diw
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 Sorry I was referring to the violin concerto, i.e., Symphonie Espagnole. I do have the Lalo Cello Concerto babe recording you mentioned.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 25, 2016 at 08:04:18
dan_e10
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 Here's an interesting thread from the Steve Hoffman forum. I haven't made it past the first couple of pages, but someone stated most current SACD players user a Mediatek chip now instead of the discontinued Sony.
Dan

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 25, 2016 at 11:53:44
PAR
 Thanks for that . Very interesting and it has made me think a little further.

I think that there is a bit of a confusion as to what chip does what. The Mediatek is a digital processor which is meant for multi-media machines. It also handles video formats, of course, as well as HDCD. It is, accordingly at first sight, unsuitable for dedicated SACD players using bona fide SACD mechanisms.

The Sony chip in question has a particular function specifically related to SACD mechanisms. It reads TOC and decodes the encryption of SACD. See the link to an archive bulletin which I think is about the Sony chip that is no longer in production.

So, while the Mytek chip (or similar) remains current SACD should be playable on new Oppo machines and, perhaps, some other multi media machines that may support SACD like the Ayre C5-XE.

Putting aside the players from boutique manufacturers which rely upon OEM transports and/or the Sony chip, Denon/Marantz and Yamaha remain as SACD player makers who may be large enough to have produced their own decoders. However it is proving hard to find out anything about what they use. Also, AFAIK, they do not supply other companies which limits the size of the continuing market.

 

wrongo, posted on April 26, 2016 at 13:05:04
madisonears
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 Until he cites a source or any type of assigned information other than internet chatter, it's a rumor. I don't care very much about his rep.

Why are you defending this speculation?


berate is 8 and benign is 9

 

It's more than a rumor if Jared is cutting back on SACD physical disc releases, posted on April 26, 2016 at 20:15:23
Chris from Lafayette
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 Face it, the era of disc-based music is coming to a close. Maybe it will be sooner, maybe it will be later, but it's clearly inevitable. Sure, maybe disc-based systems can survive (as vinyl has) among a fraction of a fraction of listeners, but as for the market in general, I just don't see disc-based playback continuing to be a factor, barring some miraculous development I'm not aware of. I even wonder whether downloads will survive - the future is streaming, and in many ways, it's already here. Check out Beyonce's latest album, "Lemonade" - exclusively available now on Tidal (and on iTunes only later on). Whether or not Beyonce means anything to you or me, she, by herself, represents a big chunk of the total music market, and I can't see this development (i.e., the exclusive release of a significant new album ONLY on a streaming service, at least for a while) as anything other than a confirmation of the decline in the market for physical discs.

 

Szeryng/Hendl on Analogue Productions?, posted on April 26, 2016 at 20:21:05
Chris from Lafayette
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 It's available now.

 

RE: Can you cite a source, posted on April 27, 2016 at 17:13:49
Tony Lauck
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 Not surprising. SACD has DRM and the DRM depends on patented technology. I never purcased a single SACD because of the DRM issue. Glad I made this decision. I have a few dozen Channel Classics DSD downloads and they are wonderful recordings. I wish them the best and believe they are making the correct decision.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: "all that screwing around with servers, players, software, etc.", posted on April 27, 2016 at 17:15:55
Tony Lauck
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 It's a huge PITA at first. After you figure it out, it becomes delightfully easy and addictive.
Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

Addictive? - well, I might not go THAT far! [nt] ;-), posted on April 27, 2016 at 20:35:21
Chris from Lafayette
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Is DRM actually a requirement for the SACD specification?, posted on April 27, 2016 at 20:38:29
Chris from Lafayette
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 I thought DRM was allowed if companies want to implement it, but it wasn't required - I think that's true of both SACD and DVD-Audio. Don't know about blu-ray audio.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 28, 2016 at 15:52:23
stvnharr
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 Jared wrote about doing this quite awhile ago and the future now seems to have happened. The BFO and Rachel Podger discs continue to sell well I think and hopefully they will continue to come out as sacd's.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 28, 2016 at 16:16:48
stvnharr
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 Wait a minute here. This post is about as gobbledegook as it gets with just generalities and nothing specific written either in this post or subsequent posts.
Are you referring to chipsets in the digital sections of players or are you referring to laser reading units? There is a big difference.
When you write "No OEM SACD mechanisms are now available", just what are you referring to?

It's pretty obvious to anyone that there are fewer and fewer sacd capable players on the market than there were 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. Now it is essentially just Marantz, Oppo and a few really high end players like Esoteric, Playback Designs and dcS. Oppo is likely the dominant player in the market. There isn't a big market for sacd capable players. That's just how it is.

Replacement laser units for most older sacd players are getting in short supply as most of the lasers went out of production long ago. Now it's just NOS and fakes being sold.
Marantz makes their own transports and Oppo isn't worried.

In reading the referred SH forum thread it seemed that one particular Sony chip had gone out of production long ago and was being licensed to MediaTek for production. A shortage of this one chip led to some changes at dcS, which was getting something from Esoteric which had to stop the supply of this one thing only. Esoteric still makes their VRDS transports and still makes players.

When you see Oppo dropping sacd, then it's all done.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 00:30:52
Disbeliever
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 Sony still make a SACD player and BD players that play SACDs

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 02:21:09
PAR
 An OEM SACD mechanism is a mechanism dedicated to the replay of CD and SACD optical discs which is supplied by an Original Equipment Manufacturer to a manufacturer of finished players. It consists the mechanical drive,optics and some digital electronics, the latter normally concerned with control of the mechanism, reading TOC and decoding SACD. The DSD information contained on an SACD is encrypted which requires decoding.

One of the OEM SACD mechanism suppliers (in fact the last that remained in the market AFAIK) Teac/Esoteric no longer supplies other manufacturers. It now restricts its mechanisms to its own products.

The Sony decoding chip was not licensed to Mytek. Mytek does not make a chip that performs the same task. Mytek do make a chip that will decode SACD but not for SACD mechanisms, only for DVD drives. The latter fits in well with your final paragraph which I suspect it likely to be more or less correct.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 16:33:39
stvnharr
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 So, your message is that Teac/Esoteric is no longer supplying anyone else. That is not the same as there are no more OEM sacd mechanisms. I have no idea how many companies used Teac mechanisms. The Esoteric division is a different story as the VRDS mechanisms are quite expensive and only a few companies can afford to buy them.
The SH forum thread mentioned a Sony chip that had been licensed to MediaTek, not Mytek the dac maker.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 16:42:19
stvnharr
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 Here is a link to a diyaudio thread. Read Post #1 as it explains the situation best. It's not just sacd mechs that are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/279390-quality-cd-mechanisms-long-gone-let-us-build-one-ourselves.html

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 16:59:55
stvnharr
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 Yes, Sony has this one.
http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/audio-components/scd-xe800

 

My Typo..., posted on April 29, 2016 at 17:56:42
PAR
 I meant to type Mediatek not Mytek. No Sony Chip has been licensed to Mediatek as I explained. Please see link to Mediatek. Please also see one of my earlier posts in this thread which has a link to details of the Sony chip that is no more. There is no Mediatek equivalent.

I said that TEAC/Esoteric were the last supplier of OEM SACD mechanisms. if you know of another then please advise.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 18:02:58
PAR
 The linked thread that you refer to is not about SACD mechanisms but CD mechanisms.

 

RE: My Typo..., posted on April 29, 2016 at 19:20:18
stvnharr
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 NT

 

RE: Can you cite a source, posted on April 29, 2016 at 19:24:47
stvnharr
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 NT

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 20:49:02
stvnharr
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 You have provided a link to the Sony part CXD2750AQ, which was an early sacd decoder chip. Your posting seems to indicate that the lack of this old chip is the a reason for the lack of "OEM sacd mechs".
So, I decided to look at the Service Manuals of my own sacd player, SA-8260, and also the much newer SA11-S2. The SA-8260 uses a CXD2752R decoder and the SA11-S2 uses the CXD2753R decoder.
I do not have service manuals for the SA11S3 player or the Oppo 105 player. But since these players are in current production they would have to have an sacd decoder chip of some kind that is in good supply.
So the sky hasn't really fallen yet, though it may have for some.

It's like now there is only one sacd pressing plant outside Japan and when that goes then there will be no more sacd discs.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 29, 2016 at 20:53:01
stvnharr
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 Quality cd mechs are gone now. The thread is long and there is some industry participation. It seemed to me from the reading that most makers now use CD-ROM drives as they are still very available.
The specialty sacd market is very small and as you mention in another post the makers that are still making players may be making their own mechs and not making them available to others. However, Oppo is getting theirs from somewhere.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 30, 2016 at 00:24:12
PAR
 The situation with Oppo is pretty straightforward. They don't use a dedicated SACD mechanism. As their machines are multi-media players they must use a DVD type of mechanism which also enables laser light of two wavelengths to cater for CD/DVD or Bluray/SACD replay. This would enable them to use e.g. a Mediatek multi purpose chip or similar. The need for a shorter laser wavelength than required for CD in order to replay SACD means that standard CD-ROM drives are not usable for SACD replay.

Incidentally have checked on the Sony SCD-XE800 SACD player. It seems to be (or have been) a Japan and Europe only item. Although it appears in the catalogues of Sony's European divisions I am unable to find a new one for sale anywhere. It was introduced in 2010/2011 and 6 years or so is an unfeasibly long time for any product to remain in a major Japanese manufacturer's listing. I suspect that it remains effectively as vaporware only. Sony did the same thing with the XA5400ES which remained in the UK catalogue for at least two years without any pieces actually being available. For products of big Japanese corporations supply can be exhausted before the marketing cycle has concluded. It is very rare for further batches to be made as their production capacity is already occupied with newer lines.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on April 30, 2016 at 16:21:42
stvnharr
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 Dedicated sacd mechs are definitely not plentiful now, and likely never were. There never was a plethora of audio only sacd players, even in the beginning. Dedicated sacd mechs has a nice sound to it, but does it really matter? Marantz now has their SACDM-1 and SACDM-2 mechs and Esoteric has their VRDS mechs and that's about it.
The Ayre C5 used a dvd mech and nobody complained about the player quality. But then again the Ayre has reached the end of it's production cycle and is no longer made.

I just happened to look up the Sony UK site and was surprised to see that XE800 player. And like you mention, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is available.
The one new player that did come out in 2015 was the Marantz SA14S1, though it was in limited distribution.

 

Are Channel FLAC downloads multichannel?, posted on May 1, 2016 at 07:40:08
diw
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 I was thinking that now that there are Multichannel High-Rez recordings out there that are not available on physical disc, I might actually have to succumb to downloading. I would probably start with putting them on a USB drive and plugging into my Oppo 93. I was trying to hold off buying a new Oppo until the new model comes out this winter. Since the 93 doesn't handle DSD files over USB, I am wondering whether the FLAC downloads are multichannel. (I can see from the Channel website that the NativeDSD.com downloads are multichannel).

 

RE: Szeryng/Hendl on Analogue Productions?, posted on May 1, 2016 at 07:44:31
diw
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 Chris do you know if the multichannel layer of this SACD plays back in 3 channel with a dedicated center channel? Or is it only a stereo mix?

 

RE: Szeryng/Hendl on Analogue Productions?, posted on May 4, 2016 at 19:22:03
stvnharr
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 This is a 3 channel recording.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 5, 2016 at 04:45:00
hiredfox
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 What has the last 16 years been about if CD is good enough?

It isn't! Anybody who still thinks listening to music on CD is acceptable clearly has no interest in or understanding of music - except perhaps the most banal type of pop music that doesn't require a brain and ears for engagement. The decision on Feng disc was plain wrong simple as that, he is a rising star and beginning to gain some appeal amongst classical music critics and buyers. SACD buyers are unlikely to revert to CD and will pass this one over and look elsewhere.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 8, 2016 at 16:20:55
stvnharr
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 The music distribution world is moving ever slowly to the download. But as long as disc sacd's come out I will buy them. I'm like you and don't want to go the download way if I can avoid it.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 9, 2016 at 18:53:46
ahendler
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 Try streaming
Alan

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 11:02:48
Felixer
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 PAR wrote: "The dominant (only?) chip used for decoding SACD and which was included in most OEM SACD mechanisms was made by Sony who ceased to produce it years ago."


My goodness - you have no idea. SACD players use the same chip as hi-rez DACs that do native DSD to analogue. They are manufactured by a number of competing suppliers.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 11:17:46
Felixer
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I suspect that what Channel really want to do is to price differentiate: i.e. be able to charge 2 or 3 times the price for a DSD recording than for the CD version. They can't do that with a hybrid SACD: they have to sell at the same price to everyone, and they don't like that.

Sadly, I think their desire to price differentiate will just blow up in their face. The classical market has enormous inertia, and people who buy physical product buy physical product. Heck - vinyl is still going strong. Downloads have never really taken off in the classical world, and frankly I don't think they ever will. In fact, downloads are already going out of business, being replaced by STREAMING. The download model is basically dying, if not already forecast as dead.

PLUS: Any savvy user will be able to get a copy of the download file free off the internet anyway, so they will be out of business if they don't have a physical path.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 14:32:53
PAR
 My goodness - given a lack of ideas, one is that you appear not to know that there is a requirement for SACD data first to be decoded before conversion to analogue as it is encrypted. This has nothing at all to do with the DAC to which you refer. The chip to decode the encryption etc. is the one that Sony stopped making some years ago and stocks of which are now almost exhausted ( see link)

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 15:11:33
stvnharr
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 why?

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 15:21:19
stvnharr
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 PARS,
You seem to think that the only encoding chip is the CXD2750 chip, which is a very early chip and hasn't been used in some time. Whether or not the subsequent chips, like I found in Marantz players are in short supply is another matter.
There aren't many audio only sacd players being produced these days, period. The demand is not likely very high which can stretch out the availability time. I tend to think that there will not be any more audio only players coming out in the future as the market is just too small.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 15:27:46
stvnharr
Audiophile

Posts: 659
Joined: November 6, 2003
 Well, No.
You obviously have never read Jared's previous postings on this.
I think you are correct about classical music listeners liking physical product. As long as classical sacd's continue to come out I will purchase the ones I like.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 16:28:24
PAR
 If you read the whole thread you will find that I have already referred to Marantz and other players.

In regard to your last sentence I am generally inclined to agree and most certainly inasfar as optical disc sources are concerned.

Incidentally here (link) is a piece from Stereophile's report from last weekend's Munich show and an announcement from EMM (para.2) who are reduced to a limited edition of 50 pieces for their new SACD transport for the reasons already stated.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 17:18:17
stvnharr
Audiophile

Posts: 659
Joined: November 6, 2003
 Thanks for the link.
Yes, that's what I thought, that Esoteric was no longer selling the VRDS transport. Every product has it's product life and this one is coming to an end after around 10-12 years or so, which is a pretty long time.
Once APL, dcS, EMM and Playback Designs no longer have new players for sale, then Marantz and Esoteric will have the audio only sacd market to themselves for however long that may last. Marantz and Esoteric compete in much different price sectors so new player availability could last a fair while. Then it'll just be Oppo and whatever video disc player includes sacd.

 

RE: Channel Classics getting out of SACD mostly, posted on May 10, 2016 at 19:24:04
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Near infinite amount of albums
Great sound from Tidal and Classicsonlinehd
Why not. You can try it for free
Alan

 

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