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Plangent system - Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3 Detroit/Paray/Dupre

64.145.79.49
Posted on April 3, 2016 at 14:45:43
Bill Way
Audiophile

Posts: 1884
Location: Toms River NJ
Joined: May 28, 2012
Contributor
  Since: December 14, 2012
 This is really about tape, but most of us will experience it via hi-rez digital, so here it is.

Plangent, for those unfamiliar with it, is a somewhat recent system for tape playback that uses the original bias waveform, played back via special heads, to "reclock" the signal. With this, any speed anomalies during playback *or* record(!) can in theory be corrected. This includes wow, flutter, head-scrape, or any tape stretching.

I just downloaded the Mercury Saint-Saëns Symphony No. 3 with Detroit/Paray/Dupre from prostudiomasters.com. It is a remix/remastering by Thomas Fine of the original SR-90012 done by his parents. I also have the 1991 remastering his mother did for the CD issue. I do not have the original LP.

My system is somewhat modest: sources are either an Oppo BDP-95, or files played with Vox software on a Macbook Pro using a Metric Halo ULN-2 DAC. Either source plays through a modded VTL Deluxe preamp, Manley 120 monoblocks, Spica TC-50s (modded) and an ACI Titan II LE sub. I'm modding my Bottlehead headphone amp. When that's done I'll give it another listen through the HD800s, which are so much more revealing than the Spicas.

Compared to the CD, the new mastering has less grit and more detail, especially low-level detail. Dynamics bloom more naturally. Upper mids and highs seem very slightly hotter than the original, which is a good thing, now that there is less grit to contend with. There are some mix changes, though I can't pinpoint just what the difference is; the orchestra doesn't "sit" the same when A/B-ing, though the overall balance is about same.

The advantages of Plangent on this recording seem pretty substantial, even on the lowly Spicas. I'd love to hear impressions from other inmates who have listened to Plangent-processed recordings.

Cheers,
WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

 

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RE: Plangent system - Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3 Detroit/Paray/Dupre, posted on April 3, 2016 at 17:29:58
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 If you go to the music forrum There is a big discussion of this over there. By the way the overall balance is not even close. The original is brighter but the orchestra particularly in movement 3 and 4 is thin and light in the original but big dynamic and powerful in the new remastering
Alan

 

Wow!!! A VERY nice download, posted on April 9, 2016 at 11:02:45
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 This was a very nice download. It's been over 40 years since I heard this recording on a 7.5 1/2" 2 track prerecorded tape. I recognized the performance immediately, but the sound of remaster didn't match my recollection. After listening to the remaster three times, I finally figured out what the differences were:

1. All the tape artifacts of the original were gone. No saturation distortion at all.

2. There was no background noise that I could hear at any reasonable volume setting. (Possibly resulting from less sensitive hearing than in my youth.)

3. There were no artifacts resulting from amplifier distortion or over driving my KLH 6 woofers and/or my Citation II amplifier. Hence no "impressive" hi-fi sound. My present Focal monitors have more than enough headroom to play this recording undistorted at full concert levels.

4. I don't recall hearing as wide and deep a sound stage, but back in those days I hadn't figured out that aspect of system setup.

5. The tonal balance seemed more or less the same as I recall from the 2 track tape, however the beautiful sheen of the brass was totally unexpected. I don't recall hearing an LP or CD of this performance, but the Mercury CD's were generally over bright, perhaps the brightest of any recordings in my entire library.

By the way, there don't appear to be any organ pedals below 30 Hz. Looking at the spectrum, I see some noise around 20 Hz, but it appears to be hall noise, as it does not vary with the music. The liner nodes claim that the organ had a 32 foot stop, but I didn't find evidence of its use.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Wow!!! A VERY nice download, posted on April 9, 2016 at 19:17:01
Bill Way
Audiophile

Posts: 1884
Location: Toms River NJ
Joined: May 28, 2012
Contributor
  Since: December 14, 2012



Now we just have to convince young Mr. Fine to do the Freddie Fennell records. Imagine what the Crown Imperial March would sound like. The last time I heard that live it was done by a high school band playing in a big tent at a flower park in Chujikan. William Walton in Japan, surrounded by camellias the size of LPs. Lots of wrong notes, but they had the right feel for the piece. Japan always surprises.

WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

 

I think everyone who has heard it (including Alan and me) has been REALLY impressed! [nt], posted on April 10, 2016 at 08:42:42
Chris from Lafayette
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Posts: 26465
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012

 

BTW - I notice Alan didn't link to the discussion over on Music Lane, posted on April 10, 2016 at 10:31:54
Chris from Lafayette
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Posts: 26465
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 . . . so here it is:

 

RE: BTW - I notice Alan didn't link to the discussion over on Music Lane, posted on April 10, 2016 at 19:41:01
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Yes I did. The discussion about buying music over again and further dow you bring up the Saint Saens? I am all over that conversation including providing links to the CD
Alan

 

RE: Wow!!! A VERY nice download, posted on April 10, 2016 at 19:46:08
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 It was not Mr. Fine that produced the new processed 3 track. It was the Plangent people. That is the major source of improvement in sound. Tom Fine mixed the new 3 track down to a 2 track master. Believe me I could do that even with my 74 year old ears.
Alan

 

Saw your reference, but I didn't see a link - in any case, thanks! [nt], posted on April 10, 2016 at 22:44:10
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26465
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012

 

The Plangent-processed Grateful Dead Studio Albums were shockingly clear. nt, posted on April 11, 2016 at 16:31:05
John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7806
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000
 nt

 

Thanks, Chris..., posted on April 12, 2016 at 13:40:25
srl1
Audiophile

Posts: 1339
Location: Florida Panhandle
Joined: September 2, 2003
 for mentioning this album. It so happened that I had been listening to the second Living Presence box, and I had come to the Paray Saint-Saens 3rd. It sounds pretty good all by itself, but I ordered the CD from Amazon and just had a chance to hear it. It is wonderful! Hard to believe it's 59 years old.

I've downloaded the 24/96 FLAC and hopefully will give it a listen in the next few days.

 

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