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Yes "Fragile"

67.235.228.24

Posted on September 22, 2015 at 18:14:53

Mr_Steady
Audiophile

Posts: 2042
Location: North Florida
Joined: August 19, 2014

This is a 24/96 release from Rhino/Elektra. "Fragile" is the only Yes album that is not offered in 24/192. Proprietary reasons?

This is a real hi-res file. The tests for all songs are very similar to the one shown. It also tests out to a 20 bit word depth. Most of these hi-res files do not. I would label it 20/88. I say that because the musical content brick-walls at 43kHz which would make it 20/86. I say brick-wall, because there is no high frequency information at all past the cut-off. I don't think this is a transfer from a tape. I think this is a downsample from a higher resolution digital master. One they aren't offering for sale.

This album has always had a rep for problems with the dynamic range, and that's no different here. I'd say the only fly in the ointment is that there is some mild clipping going on regularly. The True Peak Level indicators are poor. If you look at the outer ring of the history graph you can see where the lines go red from the 1:00 position to the 4:00 position.

To me this digital version sounds as good as the vinyl version. Hard to tell them apart. YMMV.

As far as the record itself. It's one of the greatest albums ever recorded. If you don't have it, then get it.

Ask yourself these questions; Can your speakers do justice to Chris Squire's in your face bass? How about Jon Anderson's lilting and delicate voice? Steve Howe's frantic guitar? Bill Bruford's cymbals? And last but not least Rick Wakeman's piano and pipe organ? Now can you speakers do all of that at the same instant? Nobody ever likes the answer to that question. :) Even my horns cry uncle.

Pretty good for an album that was a rush job just to try and raise some money so Rick Wakeman could buy some keyboards, so they could go on tour.

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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

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JeffH

15:24:20 09/23/15

Thanks for the tip!

E-Stat

09:54:29 09/23/15

RE: Yes "Fragile"

reuben

05:54:50 09/23/15

...

Show full thread outline!

JeffH

15:24:20 09/23/15

Thanks for the tip!

E-Stat

09:54:29 09/23/15

RE: Yes "Fragile"

reuben

05:54:50 09/23/15

RE: Yes "Fragile"

Mr_Steady

17:53:07 09/23/15

reuben

06:22:38 09/24/15

Mr_Steady

06:33:58 09/24/15

reuben

07:20:50 09/27/15

Mr_Steady

07:36:17 09/27/15

likethesoup2@gmail.com

07:15:10 10/01/15

Mr_Steady

18:18:28 10/01/15

RE: DSD Version

likethesoup2@gmail.com

04:14:56 10/02/15

RE: DSD Version

Mr_Steady

05:01:05 10/02/15

RE: DSD Version

likethesoup2@gmail.com

06:15:24 10/02/15

RE: DSD Version

Mr_Steady

06:40:52 10/02/15

RE: DSD Version

likethesoup2@gmail.com

11:46:09 10/04/15

RE: DSD Version

Mr_Steady

15:47:32 10/04/15

RE: DSD Version

likethesoup2@gmail.com

17:45:14 10/04/15

RE: DSD Version

Mr_Steady

16:29:48 10/05/15

Mr_Steady

06:25:24 09/24/15

RE: Yes "Fragile"

Dave_K

04:40:56 09/23/15

RE: Yes "Fragile"

Javier

20:56:27 09/22/15

RE: Yes "Fragile", posted on September 22, 2015 at 20:56:27
Javier Audiophile Posts: 338 Location: Laredo Joined: December 14, 2005	I am waiting for the new remaster from Steven Wison since somehow I lost my DVD audio copy that sounded awesome

RE: Yes "Fragile", posted on September 23, 2015 at 04:40:56
Dave_K	This is indeed a good hi-res release, significantly better than its CD counterpart. It's one of the early hi-res titles from the Warner DVD-A catalog, most of which were good. I'm glad I bought them when I did, because it's taken a while for them to roll out to the download sites e.g. HDTracks.

RE: Yes "Fragile", posted on September 23, 2015 at 05:54:50
reuben Audiophile Posts: 1639 Joined: September 28, 2004	'I'd say the only fly in the ointment is that there is some mild clipping going on regularly.' Can you confirm this? Any clipping at all would be a deal breaker for me. -reub Dark energy? Ridiculous! We live in an electric universe.

Thanks for the tip! , posted on September 23, 2015 at 09:54:29
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 37584 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	That has been a favorite of mine since it came out.

Top notch, posted on September 23, 2015 at 15:24:20
JeffH Audiophile Posts: 4574 Location: Orange County, So Cal Joined: April 5, 2000	sound! Something tells me that we won't see a breakthrough release such as this for a long long time...

RE: Yes "Fragile", posted on September 23, 2015 at 17:53:07
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	I would imagine you've always heard this album with clipping. Maybe Steven Wilson will fix it in his remix. The TPL for this file is L=0.1 and R=0.4. Maybe someone with studio experience can tell us what that means. My layman's guess is it means intermittent mild clipping. ------------------------------------------------------------ Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

TPL ? n/t, posted on September 24, 2015 at 06:22:38
reuben Audiophile Posts: 1639 Joined: September 28, 2004	' Dark energy? Ridiculous! We live in an electric universe.

RE: TPL ? n/t, posted on September 24, 2015 at 06:25:24
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	True Peak Level. Sorry I thought I had used that term earlier in the thread. ---------------------------------------------------------- Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

RE: TPL ? n/t, posted on September 24, 2015 at 06:33:58

Mr_Steady
Audiophile

Posts: 2042
Location: North Florida
Joined: August 19, 2014

Maybe this will help.

>"Since loudness measuring is based on an algorithm that builds on a study of subjective perception, in theory, program material that complies with the determined LRA and Program Loudness of a certain broadcast standard can in fact overload if normalized the traditional way (quasi-peak or sample-peak). Therefore, normalization is also part of many broadcast standards, and to comply, broadcasters must use a true-peak meter.

Many loudness meters have a built-in true-peak meter, and what sets the true-peak meter apart from sample-peak meters is a special algorithm - donated by TC - that not only looks at the actual samples, but also inter sample peaks. In effect, the true-peak mater can unveil peaks in between actual samples that would otherwise cause distortion. Therefore, a true-peak meter actually 'goes beyond 0 dB'. A reading using a traditional sample-peak meter that displays a max of e.g. -0.2 dB could go as far as +3 dB on a true-peak meter reading.

Please note that this does not indicate acceptance of exceeding 0dB on a true-peak meter, but it provides a more precise reading that helps in normalizing program material without compromising the quality of the audio. As an example, the max value of normalized program material according to the EBU R128 standard is -1 dBTP (dB True-Peak)."

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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

http://www.tcelectronic.com/loudness/loudness-explained/

RE: TPL ? n/t, posted on September 27, 2015 at 07:20:50

reuben
Audiophile

Posts: 1639
Joined: September 28, 2004

This is all of interest I could find so far, a feature of an off line measuring system:

True-Peak Warning - Ensures Audio Quality Downstream (data reduction, codecs, converters, etc.)
Dark energy? Ridiculous!
We live in an electric universe.

source

RE: TPL ? n/t, posted on September 27, 2015 at 07:36:17
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	Thanks Reuben! They have a knowledge base page I will have to navigate through. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

RE: TPL ? n/t, posted on October 1, 2015 at 07:15:10
likethesoup2@gmail.com	Anybody heard the DSD version of this?

DSD Version, posted on October 1, 2015 at 18:18:28
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	There's a DSD version? My Sony HAPZ1 coverts the PCM version to DSD, and it sounds very nice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 2, 2015 at 04:14:56
likethesoup2@gmail.com	There's a box set called High Vibration. I'll be able to let you know how it sounds in the next couple of days.

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 2, 2015 at 05:01:05
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	Forgot about that Japanese import. Yes, please let us know what you think. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 2, 2015 at 06:15:24
likethesoup2@gmail.com	I currently have the Yes album, 90125, and a couple of songs from Big Generator on DSD, and they all sound pretty good. Have you ever compared PCM to DSD vs DSD on your HAPZ?

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 2, 2015 at 06:40:52

Mr_Steady
Audiophile

Posts: 2042
Location: North Florida
Joined: August 19, 2014

I have never compared a hi-res PCM vs a DSD of the same album. Just starting my collection, so a little early to start building multiples of the same album in hi-res, although I think the next hi-res versions of Yes I will buy will be some Steven Wilson remixes, so those will be my first multiples of the same album.

If I ever get an album in both hi-res PCM and DSD, then I will post a review.

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Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 4, 2015 at 11:46:09

likethesoup2@gmail.com

The DSD version sounds pretty good. Forgot about Simon & Garfunkel at the end . . . which is to tell you I haven't actually heard the original CD, probably since college (early 90's).

However, I have heard it on vinyl with a friend's system (that's completely different from mine (think large Darth Vader Wilson speakers & large solid state amps)). The DSD doesn't sound quite as good as the vinyl, but it's pretty close.

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 4, 2015 at 15:47:32
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	"Look for America" wasn't on the original album. It's a bonus song, and a good one. It was originally on "Yesterdays." I have some opinions about the way the 24/192 "The Yes Album" sounds, but this version of Fragile sounds really close to vinyl to me. Keep ripping those SACDS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 4, 2015 at 17:45:14
likethesoup2@gmail.com	Meant to mention in that last post -- if you don't have the album Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman & Howe it is WELL worth finding. Don't quote me on it, but I believe it came out in '89 when the 'new' Yes was alive & kicking. Howe's playing on it is absolutely incredible. It is by no means hi-rez or an 'audiophile' recording, but if you like Yes you will like it. In fact you will probably love it.

RE: DSD Version, posted on October 5, 2015 at 16:29:48
Mr_Steady Audiophile Posts: 2042 Location: North Florida Joined: August 19, 2014	Thanks LTS. I'm aware of that album, but I've never heard it. I'll order the CD this week. No doubt about it, Howe is a true master of the guitar. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

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