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HD Tracks

98.116.17.66
Posted on August 31, 2015 at 17:00:23
cohnaudio
Audiophile

Posts: 126
Location: Northwest London
Joined: July 27, 2003
 I would be interested in hearing others' experience with the music downloaded from the site. While I give them a lot of credit for being pioneers in the hirez download area and also generally find the site to be user friendly, I am troubled by inconsistency in the sound quality of the downloads and the lack of transparency re the provenance of the files.

I have downloaded now about a dozen or so files and have found about half of them (regardless of the resolution) are no better sounding than a standard CD. There is nothing on the site to tell you whether the file was taken from the master tapes or if from a digital file, what resolution file. So it is conceivable that a 24/192 file was taken from a 16/44 file ( unlikely perhaps, but there is no telling). When I asked the folks at HDTracks whether a file was take. From the master tapes, I was informed that they just post the files and do not verify the origin of the files. Ok, so that's their business model - I get it - but what troubles me is that they charge much more than the CDs I can get on Amazon. I would not expect to them to compare the sound quality of every file they post ( I generally think the recording and mastering is more critical than the resolution of the file), but please let us know where the recording came from so we can do some research and decide for ourselves

So, I think where I have now come out is that I will only buy files based on reviews

 

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This ought , posted on September 1, 2015 at 06:51:54
JeffH
Audiophile

Posts: 4574
Location: Orange County, So Cal
Joined: April 5, 2000
 to keep you busy...I think it's a 5 part posting...

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/hdtracks-news.307430/

From the "recommended lists" I've downloaded about 15 releases and have not been disappointed. I have not downloaded in about 1 year, so I'm not current on this. I've run into so many free to really cheap cd collections that I have not given $$ downloading a thought.

 

RE: HD Tracks, posted on September 1, 2015 at 08:10:31
smart845
Audiophile

Posts: 668
Location: East london
Joined: May 24, 2000
 Hi,
I've started to check with other sites that do give provenance before purchasing from Qobuz.
Prostudiomasters and Blue Coast records often give technical notes with the latter suggesting the best sounding format to their ears.
I no longer purchase from HDtracks purely due to the inflated prices on their UK site. I can no longer use a proxy to access the U.S. Site and likewise Acoustic Sounds SuperHiRez does not allow me to download.
My other option is Highresaudio which has been a source of hard to find albums however I find their download manager not as easy as Qobuz which is click to buy, click to pay and click to download. That easy, plus discount on many titles with Qobuz sublime subscription.

There are still atrocious High Res files out there, listen to Sisters of Mercy EPs for an example, but many more of great quality. Just a little bit of research is required before committing.
Cheers
Smart

 

Yeah, the hires world as it exists right now frustrates me, posted on September 1, 2015 at 08:39:08
tcell
Audiophile

Posts: 585
Location: Maryland
Joined: September 5, 2003
 HDTracks or anywhere else. I can't find very many "reviews" where the hires offering has actually been compared to the Redbook version OF THE SAME REMASTERING. Individuals claim the hires is a revelation, but they are comparing to some older remix/remaster. When I actually download 16/44 and 24/96 versions of the EXACT same remaster I am usually not that impressed. It seems to me that if it's a good recording/remaster it sounds great at any resolution. Could just be my ears/equipment/whatever. Bottom line, it is the hires road is still a confusing and expensive place to me. Hoping for better in the future.

 

I bought a really nice Handel Organ concerto CD the other day, posted on September 1, 2015 at 14:16:49
mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004
 Plopped it in my player, sat down and read the brochure that came with it.

Physical media forever.

I dipped my toes into the HDtracks way of doing things and thought it was mostly a rip-off.






'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

 

RE: HD Tracks, posted on September 1, 2015 at 16:52:20
Mr_Steady
Audiophile

Posts: 2042
Location: North Florida
Joined: August 19, 2014
 Acoustic Sounds posts the provenance in red in the album description when they post it, which is not always, but quite a bit. They also allow user feedback posts. Give them credit for that. They are not always positive. I pay attention to them, because what other choice do you have? It's a good site to do research at the least.

I find Pono has had the best prices, but they may have just gone up. They have started to promise that if a record company ever offers a higher rez version of one you've bought, then they will give you the upgrade for free. If you log into Pono they have user comments too.

I just bought The Who, "Who's Next" deluxe edition. That was basically three albums. Who's Next and two excellent quality bootlegs. All in hi-res for $8 an album. That's 1983 prices. Less than $1 per song. What is there to complain about? Yes, CDs can be had for a dollar. I do that too.

Want physical media? Burn it on a DVD. Perfect music forever...

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

 

RE: HD Tracks, posted on September 1, 2015 at 18:09:19
cohnaudio
Audiophile

Posts: 126
Location: Northwest London
Joined: July 27, 2003
 I agree that Acoustic Sounds posts info re the files when it has it. All of the DSD files they have are, I believe, done by them and are excellent. For the PCM files, there is often no info. Thanks to the other posters here re alternative sites. I guess the lesson is that whether you're buying hirez files, CDs or vinyl, if it's not stated where the music comes from, more research is required. The frustrating thing is that large dealers like HD Tracks could simply insist on getting the info and post it. Oh well

 

RE: HD Tracks, posted on September 1, 2015 at 18:20:04
Mr_Steady
Audiophile

Posts: 2042
Location: North Florida
Joined: August 19, 2014
 Yes, but I'm sure it's the record companies that won't release the information, and if they won't release it, then you tend to think it's not good. As you point out AS is the record company for the DSD files, and they chose to give the provenance. Tom Petty did with his PCM releases.


----------------------------------------------------
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!

 

RE: HD Tracks, posted on September 2, 2015 at 02:48:03
PAR
 The plain fact is that most masters that are delivered to the record companies are NOT hi-rez in the first place. They are 16/48 (resampled to 16/44.1 for release). That is going to be the case for most music originating over the past 20 years or longer. Higher sample rate material is usually a digital conversion from this and contains no additional information. However they can sound better to the consumer due to the ability to use digital filters for reproduction in their home equipment that act further outside of the audio band and more gently than the conventional brick wall at 22.5kHz.

More recently some studios are mastering in 24/96 but comparatively few and far between. The existence of higher sample rate mastering is still very limited. Also many pop recordings these days are produced using home studio equipment which may not always deliver optimum results by audiophile standards even if high resolution rates are chosen. Again they will probably be delivered as 16/48 files to the record company.

It is more likely to get true hi-rez copies of older analogue masters where a new digitised copy at, say, 24/96 or higher has been produced specifically for the audiophile market. However it is worth bearing in mind that such old recordings have their own limitations, noise and limited high frequency response being typical.

Most SACDs currently available of modern recordings are also made from lower resolution PCM masters upsampled to DSD. Even those recorded using DSD originally have to be converted to lower resolution PCM for editing and are then resampled to DSD for the SACD release. The best situation is when the PCM conversion has been made to DXD ( 24/352.8)for editing but this remains less frequent currently.

So it doesn't surprise me at all that some HD tracks sound the same as the CD.

 

Yes, their quality is very inconsistent, posted on September 2, 2015 at 09:08:46
Dave_K
 I still shop for hi-res titles, but won't buy unless I can find a review or listening impressions and preferably a FR and DR analysis as well. Steve Hoffman forums and Computer Audiophile are good places to look for reviews & impressions of hi-res titles.

I often find that the benefits of hi-res are more than offset by bad mastering, such as crushing the DR. Popular albums get remastered over and over again, and it's more important to seek out the best mastering which may or may not be hi-res.

 

I've downloaded a lot of files from HD Tracks - all classical, posted on September 2, 2015 at 10:42:32
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26437
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 They've all been fine, although a couple do not have musical signals above 20kHz (piano solo recordings, one an old analogue recording from the '60's, and a newer all digital one). You can check what you've bought with various spectrograph SW apps. However, as others have noted, hi-rez recording is merely one element in the final product, and other factors, such as microphone type and placement, can also affect SQ - sometimes decisively! BTW, in the classical world, I don't think there's the problem of dynamic compression in the masterings that I've read listeners complaining about in the pop world.

Getting back to HD Tracks, I've been happy with everything I've bought there and plan to continue buying from them, although, since I have a preference for multi-channel recordings, I'm disappointed that HD Tracks has never offered that option, especially since other sites (The Classical Shop, iTrax) have been offering multi-channel downloads for years.

 

RE: Current state of pop music recording , posted on September 2, 2015 at 11:10:13
bean
 Is worse than you could imagine

My daughter was into the music scene, and got to "play" (for lack of a better word) producer for a few well known alternate / metal bands. She received mix down tacks 16/44.1 at BEST. Often worse. Often recorded on middling consumer gear in home studios/ garages/ broom closets. (She had a couple tracks make it on finished albums, don't think she ever got liner note credit let alone paid)

Hi res? Forget it. Even artists I thought would be more aware of quality simply didn't care beyond "good enough". They didn't want to commit the $ or time.

I only buy hi-res of recent masters of old analog tape, and new classical and jazz if I know it was recorded hi-res. And a poorly remastered turd in hi-res still sounds like a turd.

 

They seem more interested in headphone listening. (NT), posted on September 2, 2015 at 13:56:19
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

 

Then there's the site that's been PROMISING multi-channel downloads for years, posted on September 2, 2015 at 16:06:45
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26437
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 That would be eClassical (BIS). Last thing they've said is that they're in beta testing for multi-channel - and that was 3-4 months ago. Since the recent site screw-up on SA-CD.net, it's been harder for me to ascertain what Robert is up to, especially with the BIS thread fragmenting beyond usefulness and the punishment of posters (myself included) who fail to stick to the site owner's vision of the straight and narrow. And I DO mean NARROW! ;-)

 

Paying for downloaded music is HUGE waste of time and money...., posted on September 4, 2015 at 20:38:29
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 and likely a waste of bandwidth as well IMNSHO.

Half the time the music doesn't download because the files are too big and if there is an interruption on their end you get an error message and you are screwed because some like Audite only give you 5 tries and then "Der Download konnte nicht gestartet werden!" which is German for screw you buddy, no download for you and your order has expired!

I'll continue to pay a monthly fee do stream everything I want to hear and the paying per downloaded files to others.

Likely up-sampled 16/44.1 anyway.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

+1, posted on September 5, 2015 at 05:19:12
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Yep from the quality and technique of the recording gear on up those methods are more important than what format of the final master is used.


E
T
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

Never had a problem downloading any music file, posted on September 5, 2015 at 10:22:31
tcell
Audiophile

Posts: 585
Location: Maryland
Joined: September 5, 2003
 hirez or otherwise. Multiple online vendors. Sorry for your experience. Glad your solution is working for you. Thanks for sharing.

 

Audite is in Europe...., posted on September 5, 2015 at 11:43:16
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 I'm in California.

Maybe that underwater cable go wet or the NSA is messing with the signal. =:-0


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: Paying for downloaded music is HUGE waste of time and money...., posted on September 9, 2015 at 05:24:30
barondla
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Location: midwest usa
Joined: May 26, 2007
 I use Pono Music. Living in the country means slow, irregular internet service. Once in a while an album won't completely download. Pono tells you when the album didn't completely download. Click a button and it completes the process. There is no 5 times limit. Whatever it takes.

My original plan was get the Pono Player from Kickstarter to have a great portable. Didn't think I would do much, if any downloading. I had my LPs and discs. The downloads sounded better than I expected in hi res and were easy to acquire (no computer expert here). I now have a healthy number of downloaded albums.

Many albums aren't available yet in hi res. Every week there are more hi res releases. They have Bruce Botnick checking that the files are true hi res. There are already more hi res files than most people can afford. This so beats the days of searching for SACD and DVD-A discs. It has revitalized my music listening.

 

RE: Paying for downloaded music is HUGE waste of time and money...., posted on September 14, 2015 at 18:41:57
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 I run a web site that sells downloads. We have customers all over the world who download albums (a single zip file) up to 500 GB in size. Most have no problems completing downloads, but a few customers have problems with lost internnet connnections because of poor internet service. Our site has had customers successfully download a CD quality album over a dial-up internet service in third world countries. After seven years, the vast majority of our business is now downloads, although we still mail out a few CDs. Once customers figure out how to do download they are repeat customers, because buying and downloading additional albums is easy once the initial glitches have been overcome.

It can be frustrating to start a download only to have it fail 90% of the way through and have to start over. This problem can be avoided by using a download manager which will resume a failed download where it left off. Most download services now come with their own download managers which deal with these problems, but major web browsers have the necessary add-ons in case one is using a site that doesn't have its own download manager.

I have purchased and downloaded hundreds of hires albums in the past few years for my own personal use from sites such as HDtracks, Blue Coast Records, Channel Classics and eclassical and rarely have a problem.



Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Paying for downloaded music is HUGE waste of time and money...., posted on September 15, 2015 at 15:55:12
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 It is a huge waste of time for those who are clueless, and have a compromised network and little understanding of the basics of bandwidth, download managers, and hi rez audio.

 

RE: Paying for downloaded music is HUGE waste of time and money...., posted on September 15, 2015 at 15:56:15
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 "I have purchased and downloaded hundreds of hires albums in the past few years for my own personal use from sites such as HDtracks, Blue Coast Records, Channel Classics and eclassical and rarely have a problem."

I have purchased over 2000 downloads, from CD quality to DSD 128 never once had an issue either.

 

I don't worry about it, posted on September 15, 2015 at 16:33:43
Bill Way
Audiophile

Posts: 1884
Location: Toms River NJ
Joined: May 28, 2012
Contributor
  Since: December 14, 2012
 If it's pop or rock, I'll generally get the lower sample rate unless I've heard that the recording is somehow special. For classical, I'll often get the higher sample rate, even though I can't hear much of a difference between 48/88.2/96. (I do hear a difference on most recordings between 44.1 and 48.) But it's all about the music, so 16/44.1 is fine if that's what is available. After all, I love the great music I have on some noisy early LPs, so why not 16/44.1?

In my system, I don't ever hear a difference between 16 and 24 bits on playback, so I don't worry about that. It makes a huge difference when editing in Pro Tools, but almost none on just playback. YMMV.

WW
"Put on your high heeled sneakers. Baby, we''re goin'' out tonight.

 

I did something like that., posted on September 16, 2015 at 05:26:43
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Bought all 12 Handel Concerti Grossi,Op. 6 on reel-to-reel tape (Archive Production). Two chock-full tapes, glorious sound, full notes, for ... 5 bucks plus shipping. Why so cheap? Not that many Handel fans on Ebay, and the outer box was a mess.

It is true that open reel tapes are a little more challenging than playing CDs or whatever :-)

 

"I have purchased over 2000 downloads, from CD quality to DSD 128", posted on September 17, 2015 at 09:57:43
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26437
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 Tip of the hat to you, sir! (I thought I was doing well in the dozens - LOL!) Or are you talking about individual tracks, rather than albums? Even so, I'm still impressed.

 

RE: "I have purchased over 2000 downloads, from CD quality to DSD 128", posted on September 17, 2015 at 16:58:56
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
 That is ALBUMS sir!

More this weekend...the new David Gilmour, Glen Hansard, the new Van Morrison remasters! Oh yeh!

 

RE: "who are clueless, and have a compromised network and little understanding of the basics of bandwidth,..., posted on September 19, 2015 at 07:40:49
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 download managers, and hi rez audio."

And yet...

:-)





First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

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