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SACD with a serial number !

222.166.2.28
Posted on June 7, 2015 at 08:46:04
akltam
Audiophile

Posts: 1057
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: September 29, 2002
 In my local shop selling SACD, for some SACD title, they sell special version (which is a few more USD dollars) which they claim to be the first few hundreds disc being pressed.

These discs, each has a number in the order that they are manufactured.

Do these first few discs manufactured have better sonics compare to general ones ? If so, how, and what is the theory behind it ?

Alan




 

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RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 7, 2015 at 09:16:35
skriefal
Audiophile

Posts: 117
Location: SLC, Utah
Joined: June 29, 2007
 Sound is the same. But the lower number may make the disc more valuable to some collectors.

 

RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 7, 2015 at 11:58:53
zako
Audiophile

Posts: 935
Location: Mo.
Joined: March 29, 2004
 Its just zeros and ones,,NO difference than ones and zeros..

 

RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 7, 2015 at 17:01:52
robss
Audiophile

Posts: 146
Location: PNW
Joined: April 10, 2008
 Wrong on both counts:
At least in theory - and we all know our own experiences will be unique - the earlier the disc from the master, the more accurate the disc, and hence the music contained. It is only as "valuable" as one allows it to be. I tend to think that the "low number" marketing is just that - marketing - but the theory is very similar to vinyl pressings, and can be very tangible, and in some respects, very real. It would depend upon your system and the resolution possible. Some digital systems are such that you can actually tell one disc of the same pressing from another.

 

People claim early S/N's sound better?, posted on June 7, 2015 at 17:32:49
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Why? It isn't pressed like vinyl from a master lacquer that degrades with time. I understand the crazy collectors wanting a low number but please educate me if I am wrong.

E
T

ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 8, 2015 at 04:46:22
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 I concur w/ robss.

 

RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 8, 2015 at 08:05:33
zako
Audiophile

Posts: 935
Location: Mo.
Joined: March 29, 2004
 c mon guys its optically read, ones and zeros,,

 

RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 8, 2015 at 14:21:12
rannagarden
Audiophile

Posts: 28
Location: Vedum
Joined: September 28, 2007
 "Ones and zeros" ...and guesswork by the correction circuits. The fewer the guesses the better the sound. The sacd press template or mold will become worn and could make your cd-player have to start guess more since the optical read of the pits will become more and more difficult to define. Therefore an erlier pressing perhaps sounds better?

/M

 

Is there valid evidence of this? (NT), posted on June 8, 2015 at 15:38:43
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

 

RE: SACD with a serial number !, posted on June 8, 2015 at 17:06:35
Soundboy
Audiophile

Posts: 954
Location: Northern CA
Joined: May 5, 2000
 Being in HK, you should know about the proliferation of "serial numbers" on SACDs. With few exceptions, the discs themselves are not numbered....only the booklets and/or the exterior slipcases are numbered. Therefore, how can one be sure of an un-numbered SACD with a numbered booklet and/or slipcase is really from earliest pressings?

I don't think anyone can tell the difference between disc # 31 and # 836 of the same title.

 

RE: Is there valid evidence of this? (NT), posted on June 8, 2015 at 18:36:50
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15518
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Nice to see you chime in Kal.

 

RE: Is there valid evidence of this? (NT), posted on June 8, 2015 at 19:42:41
zako
Audiophile

Posts: 935
Location: Mo.
Joined: March 29, 2004
 Did you ever look at those pits under a microscope?/ I have...Do you guys remember what the laser is reading ?? C,mon use your noggon..

 

I'm having a hard time believing, but..., posted on June 9, 2015 at 00:54:20
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16673
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 lower serial number generally garner a premium with just about every collectible and serialized item, so I can understand the perception of #001 being coveted more than #842 out of a run of say 1000.

Chris



 

OK, so...................................., posted on June 9, 2015 at 04:39:58
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 please provide us with some objective data from your measurements.

 

RE: Is there valid evidence of this? (NT), posted on June 9, 2015 at 07:03:07
reuben
Audiophile

Posts: 1639
Joined: September 28, 2004
 Redbook CD's have dropouts. When the missing data is too extensive for the error correction circuitry to interpolate, the sound is muted.

I have yet to notice an audible dropout on the few SACD's I have, but I can't imagine the more densely packed SACD information to be immune from errors.

-reub
Dark energy? Ridiculous!
We live in an electric universe.

 

RE: Is there valid evidence of this? (NT), posted on June 9, 2015 at 09:20:02
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 But is there any statistical correlation between dropouts and order of production?

 

How much can the 'stamper' possibly wear out in the first 100...200 strikes?, posted on June 9, 2015 at 09:46:46
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16673
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 I can see that if you've hit your 1,000,000th pressing, something might be wearing down, but with these 'low serial number premiums' we're not talking very many units, is all.

I've been here since the beginning and I've seen some crazy stuff posted, so anything's possible, I guess?

Chris



 

RE: Is there valid evidence of this? (NT), posted on June 9, 2015 at 14:11:32
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 "Redbook CD's have dropouts. When the missing data is too extensive for the error correction circuitry to interpolate, the sound is muted."

If you rip CDs to hard drive using EAC, dBpoweramp, or other secure ripper you will find that nearly all the disks rip bit perfectly unless they have been badly scratched or otherwise treated poorly. Most of uncorrectable errors are successfully hidden by the error concealment feature which makes it difficult to hear an error even if you know exactly where it is and are looking for it. However, playing Redbook CDs in real time the error correction circuitry may create a lot of electronic noise and that may degrade the audio playback quality, thereby accounting for different sound.

I would expect similar results with SACD playback, although I haven't investigated this. Unfortunately, the ripping solution does not apply to SACDs because of the DRM which is difficult to circumvent (and doing so is illegal in many jurisdictions).

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

A good argument but, the does the stamper change?, posted on June 10, 2015 at 19:24:25
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 13665
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 I think that introducing talk of error correction in the playback source is out of scope.

The question of variances in a disk, aren't answered by "it doesn't matter" because of error correction.

All transports are not created equal, or made equal by error correction. And the VRDs-NEO demonstrates this.

"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

It may take until #841 for thing to warm up! , posted on June 11, 2015 at 12:47:31
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10580
Joined: April 12, 2002
 Maybe #842 is the Sweet Spot...

 

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