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A request to Vacuum State Electronics for news of a modded Denon 3910

82.25.107.201
Posted on January 2, 2008 at 00:55:23
Dave Billinge
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Location: Hampshire
Joined: June 7, 2005
 Dear Allen,

The moderators have kindly agreed that I can use this forum to ask you for news of my Denon 3910 loaned to you for prototyping some mods and which has now been with you for 29 months, since July 2005. My letters and emails have gone unanswered since last summer and I am wondering if I am using the wrong postal or email addresses, thus this public request. If you can contact me either on or off board with some explanation of what is happening and a date for the return of my machine I would be much obliged.

Dave

 

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RE: A request to Vacuum State Electronics for news of a modded Denon 3910, posted on January 2, 2008 at 15:06:27
Impreza


 
Dear Dave,

I press my thumbs for you. But sorry to say that - I am not so sure that he understands your issue (unfortunately this is not a joke!) I had similar issues and I simply missed the feeling that he shows signs of an "take care for his customers" approach.
It seems that he is either completely overloaded or does not put much care in a good customer relationsship.
However if there are delays (and these are always possible and customers can follow arguments) good customer relationsship simply recommends to get in touch with the customer to keep him up to date.

 

I would say anything beyond 1 year is stealing, posted on January 2, 2008 at 23:42:37
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 He should not have accepted it if he did not have the time to "proto-type" in a reasonable amount of time, unless you both agreed that time was not an issue.
29 months, with no return email for over 6 months is in my book stealing, and if true, changes my mind about doing any future business.
This is quite the coincidence, as I'm packing my SCD-1 now to send to Sony for all maintenance and firmware upgrade.. then, as soon as I got it back, it was going to go have the VSE 6 mods done...

Rick

 

Similar issues?, posted on January 4, 2008 at 00:32:17
Dave Billinge
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Location: Hampshire
Joined: June 7, 2005
 Thanks for the sympathetic response. What happened to you? You say you had "similar issues".

Dave

 

Time as an issue, posted on January 4, 2008 at 00:38:32
Dave Billinge
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Location: Hampshire
Joined: June 7, 2005
 Thanks for your response. We agreed it need not be particularly quick. His actual words were "I cannot say just how long I'd need it - it could be up to six months...". That was in July 2005 :-(

Dave

 

At this point, I'm really surprised Allen Wright has not responded..., posted on January 4, 2008 at 02:18:26
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 By now, I would think he would have visited the site, or someone would have brought your post to his attention...

Rick

 

RE: A request to Vacuum State Electronics for news of a modded Denon 3910, posted on January 4, 2008 at 04:28:25
Allen Wright
Manufacturer

Posts: 5652
Location: Schaffhausen
Joined: January 31, 2002
 Dave,
OI agree this has become a crazy thing. Everytime I look at your 3910 I say, I'll have some time next week and get it singing for him, but when "next week comes there just isn't the time to start a development project.

I'm out of town right now, but will ship it back to you immediately on my return, around the middle of the month.

Apologies, Allen

 

Abracadrabra..., posted on January 4, 2008 at 09:59:02
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16673
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 I think that we're all having one of those 'warm and fuzzy' moments.

Glad to see that things are apparently going to work out.

Chris

 

RE: Abracadrabra..., posted on January 4, 2008 at 12:19:24
Impreza


 
Mmh, I am not so sure if Dave is happy with the "solution".
Despite it is surely better than nothing - he will get the player back.
However - why does it need 2,5 years for such kind of solution?

It is a 2,5 years old used player now.


Best regards,
Impreza


 

I'm thankful I didn't send Allen the Tascam DV-RA1000 last year.., posted on January 4, 2008 at 13:01:09
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 It was the same agreement... I would send him the recorder, pre-paid shipping both ways, and Allen said he would have mods for it within a couple months.

If this were me, I would not be so nice...

The outcome of this really stinks!

Allen should instead do what is right, Mod the Denon right away, and THEN ship it back...

He has squirmed out of this without any losses (I'm sure that the return shipping is already paid for by Dave)...

Allen loses nothing........

except....

Credibility and Respect!


Rick


 

Why do you keep using different monikers after I asked you kindly to stick with one?, posted on January 4, 2008 at 13:48:24
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16673
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 Inquiring minds want to know.

Pick one and stick with it, please.

Chris

 

RE: Similar issues?, posted on January 4, 2008 at 14:13:29
Impreza


 
Dear Dave,

well my story is a little bit longer.
I got in touch with Allen in August 2006 with respect to modding a Marantz SA7001. He told me that he will not do the Marantz since his newly developed JLTI is better than every Marantz he put work on - he promised his JLTI sounds far beyond any of the commercially available players (he told me it was rated superior to the Linn Unidisk 1.1 at RBCD at the Stereoplay Magazine in Germany).
Thats why I asked him for a demo machine and told him I have interest to buy one. Paid 1425,- Euro for it - the player came early October 2006. So far so good.

I was very interested to hear how it sounds. Connected it to my rig but the sound out of it was somehow "special". I told to myself: "This thing needs heavy break in." thats why I left it spinning over the weekend.
After the weekend the sound had not been changed - the player sounded simply weired und fuzzy.

This raised question marks - the player simply sounded out of phase. Thats why I switched the polarity of one loudspeaker cable and now the player sounded noticeably better - however without the PRAT and dynamics I am used to from my Electrocompaniet ECD 1 (DAC) with the Marantz CD 10 as transport.

I called Allen and told him that I am not very happy with the sound (to less low level information and PRAT and also told him that the player arrived "out of phase".
Now a discussion started that he had heard the player for himself before the player left his home and that he is 100% sure that the player is in phase and 100% up to his specifications. But however as a test he recommended to switch the polarity on the player by myself and solder it the right way.
Although I would be able to do so I decided this is none of my business and insisted to send the player back. I also supposed more performance issues (power supply or bad transport behavior) since the player simply does not sounded like I expected it from a promised Linn killing machine.

I also told Allen that if the pleayer sticks as it is with respect to the sound I am not following his comparisons to other high end players and he should feed some PRAT into the player. If this is not possible I would like to give it back.

The JLTI came back 4 weeks later - with perfect fixed out of phase issue but with a scratch on the front and it simply does not came up to live in my system.
I argued with him if there is the possibility that the passive output stages of the JLTI are not able to drive the Electrocompaniet ECI 4 (Integrated) inputs at 330kOhm but he told me that can not be the case.

At that point I simply gave up and told him that I would like to give the player back since it somehow did not work out in my system.

At that time I did not get response to my emails anymore.

I made some suggestions to handle this case since I would like to come out
of this business with a fair situation for both sides (by the way: in the US VSE Agents give the customer the possibility to give the player back during a 4 week period if unhappy).
I finally ended up suggesting that he takes the player back and refunds 1100,- Euro ... (23% decrease from the price I paid).

At this time he sent back an answer that I would call a little bit non customer satisfaction oriented with an offer to refund not more than
300,- Euro.

Dave what do you think about that?
Is this a fair relationship?

Best regards,
Impreza



 

RE: Why do you keep using different monikers after I asked you kindly to stick with one?, posted on January 4, 2008 at 14:22:11
Impreza


 
Better now?

 

That all depends on whether you use 'defender' when you talk to Alex..., posted on January 4, 2008 at 15:30:49
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16673
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 doesn't it?

Behave.

Chris

 

RE: Well ..., posted on January 5, 2008 at 01:15:19
Dave Billinge
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Location: Hampshire
Joined: June 7, 2005
 An interesting parallel Rick. I'm sure you'll appreciate that since I have not actually received my machine back yet I would prefer to be reticent about my feelings. There is still an opportunity for a moderately good outcome as long as machine and remote control (vital for setup and now unobtainable because the machine is obsolete) reach me soon, in perfect condition and without the UK authorities trying to charge me VAT on my own machine. I will report back.

Dave

 

RE: Similar issues?, posted on January 5, 2008 at 01:24:10
Dave Billinge
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Location: Hampshire
Joined: June 7, 2005
 I can see why you were upset. This is the only occasion I have dealt with VSE direct. The UK VSE agent Colin Yallop has been very good in his responses: always prompt, always helpful by phone and by email, and has done a full Level 5+ on my Sony SCD777. For me Allen Wright has been pleasant and helpful on the few occasions I have been in contact, but the issue of actually achieving contact is similar to yours, extremely patchy. I await the outcome of my problem with interest and some trepidation :-)

Dave

 

RE: Similar issues?, posted on January 5, 2008 at 02:37:22
Impreza


 
You might also want to read this link:

 

RE: That all depends on whether you use 'defender' when you talk to Alex..., posted on January 5, 2008 at 11:54:40
Impreza


 
Hi Chris,

sorry that I am using the moniker impreza in this communication. Maybe you understand this a little bit better if I tell you that my case with Allen is still not solved. So I first decided to post under a different moniker than usual. In the meantime I think it should be an open discussion independent if it influences the situation or not.

 

To set the record straight..., posted on January 6, 2008 at 11:43:04
Allen Wright
Manufacturer

Posts: 5652
Location: Schaffhausen
Joined: January 31, 2002
 Impreza ordered a very special version of this unit from us - without asking if he could hear it first. He wanted balanced outputs, which we offered although not at all common on such a budget machine, and insisted on the standard powercord be removed and an IEC socket fitted.

I strongly counselled against changing the fixed standard powercord as: 1/ I knew it would make zero sonic improvement and 2/ required a messy cutting of the very narrow backpanel to accomodate the IEC socket. We were able to fit the IEC socket but the unit then was obviously modified and NOT salable to anyone else.

Imprezia then found he didn't like the sound and wanted his money back, after we had bent over backwards to try and find a solution to his problems. He complained of "no bass" when the unit measured perfectly flat to around 1Hz and poor PRAT, what ever the %$#@ that may mean.

The unit sounded as good as any other of these Upgraded NS90/92V players we had sold worldwide, and still very good against our Level 5+ Upgraded SCD-777ES.

He sent us two CDs of his choice of music, one from the Swiss electronic band "Yello" and another of some hugely compressed studio recorded singer/songwriter - neither of which I could personally stand and neither of which I would ever use to check out equipment quality being hugely compressed!

We ended up by taking the unit back, and were able to finally sell it, at a considerable $$ discount, to someone who LOVES the sound of it. In exchange, we supplied Imprezia with a pair of cables, which we manufacturered especially for him, at a retail value of over 1000 euro, not the 300 he mentioned.

I believe we acted very well in this matter, and he is one of the VERY few who have been less that wildly enthusiastic about the sonic qualities of our products, many reports on which can be found on this forum.

Regards, Allen

 

Your part of the story, posted on January 7, 2008 at 13:10:20
Impreza


 
Well Allen,

this is your part of the story.
I only know that the out of phase issue was real as well as the scratch on the front panel of the unit.

With respect to the sound quality you maybe still speak about SACD performance while I am speaking about the promised Linn/Ayre killing RBCD performance (I am not sure how you can measure a flat response to 1 Hz on RBCD - but I am certainly not the expert in measuring cdplayers frequency response).
However, I never evaluated a cdplayer according to his flat frequency response since also amplifiers have a flat response while sounding different.

However, neither the players performance was/is bad nor did I not value your efforts to the community in bringing consumer products to a higher value.
The only thing I say is: the player lived not up to the expectations you raised with your: "rated better than the Linn Unidisk 1.1 and better than the Ayre C-5xe" statement on your webside/brochure - and that was the market I was in for.
I also know that there are more than one threads regarding "Breath of Life" mods for the Sony VSE Level V that completely support the findings I commented to you regarding what the JLTI is missing.

With respect to the CD from Stockfish-Records.de that you found low quality/compressed: I can only encourage everyone who reads this message to go to their webside and buy a CD that fits your music taste and there is a strong possibility that you may fall in love with the label. They are simply dedicated to high end recordings - also David W. Robinson has high praise for their "Spirit of Gambo" CD.

With respect to the interconnects you provided: we both agreed with email that these are for demo only and therefore not manufactured especially for me.

If you finally sold the JLTI at a considerable $$ discount - fine with me - than simply refund me 200,- Euro less than you have sold it for ... as compensation for your efforts.
In this case you still have earned 200,- Euro more than you would usually sell it for.

Different topic:
the new Esoteric DV-60 upsamples PCM to DSD. Meaning if you choose that filter option the Cirrus DAC´s are running in straight DSD mode also for PCM - that should be a killer opportunity for your SACD optimized output stages - think about it.

Best regards,
Tobias


 

"rated better than the Linn Unidisk 1.1 ", posted on January 8, 2008 at 02:36:42
Allen Wright
Manufacturer

Posts: 5652
Location: Schaffhausen
Joined: January 31, 2002
 I suggest you check this with two reviewers/writers of the German magazine, Stereoplay.

One is their turntable/analog guy, Dalibor Beric, and the other their digital specialist.

Both were present in THEIR listening room at their offices in Stuttgart when the comparison was done, the JLTi player against the Linn Unidisk 1.1. I didn't know which machine was playing as they had done the setup and were doing the switching back and forward, but one was CLEARLY better than the other, and to their (and my) surprise, it was the Linn that sounded cloudly and muffled in comparison.

Regards, Allen

 

RE: "rated better than the Linn Unidisk 1.1 ", posted on January 8, 2008 at 13:06:39
Impreza


 
Somehow I can not answer Allen´s comments because the thread seems to be archived - however:

I would not make a statement if I have not proved it before.
I was in touch with Stereoplay/Dalibor Beric - while overall very positive to your player with respect to the price performance ratio he did not had the same impression with respect to the Linn (if you like I can forward you his email).

But that did not matters to me anymore. I would like to come to an fair end of the deal for both sides.

I paid 1425,- Euro for the unit - you took the unit back and
sold it to another customer for maybe 700,- to 800,- Euro.
Would´nt it be fair for both sides if I am asking you to
refund me 200,- Euro less than your selling prize to the new customer (in other words 500,- to 600,- Euro).

In this case I am loosing about 850,- Euro with this deal - you still have earned 1625,- Euro with this business.

Should be not bad all.

Best regards,
Tobias


 

RE: Similar issues?, posted on January 30, 2016 at 14:55:34
liezelimbs
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Joined: November 25, 2015
 My children were needing IRS 8879 some time ago and were told about an online platform that hosts a huge forms library . If you have been needing IRS 8879 too , here's http://goo.gl/lOI3It

 

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