Hi-Rez Highway

New high resolution SACD releases, players and technology.

Return to Hi-Rez Highway


Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Doug Rich Article

195.92.194.105

Posted on November 29, 2000 at 12:30:59
Apologies if this has been done to death already but I have only just read the article.

Firstly congrats to JA for including it. I have seen these issues discussed elsewhere but not altogether. A minor comment, it would have been useful to include a side box explaining some of the more technical issues, to open it out to a wider audience. A page of references feels more aimed at a scientific rather than popular audience.

I found the statement that one bit devices are used because they are cheap a little odd as the article mentions some of the other requirements needed to make it work, which increases the complexity and costs. Sony engineers must know this as well.

Whether we need 120 db all the way to 100kHz (or even 50kHz)is somewhat debatable/unproved. Certainly JA's comments in the previous edition showed there was data above 22 kHz but at a much lower level, so the SACD compromise may hit the mark anyway.

Doug's comments on interpolators etc. are obviously true but my main worry here is not that there are ways of achieving this but what will end up in consumer products. DcS etc. do make wonderful 24/96 and 24/192 DACs but they are not typical products and what is likely to appear ? I am nervous here about an (allegedly ??) superior theoretical solution (PCM) compared what actually appears in the consumer product. I can't think of a more inefficient process than dragging a diamond over vinyl that becomes deformed in an mechanically noisy environment, but to many it is the gold standard.

Theory and practice can be very different.

It is possible that a perfect 16/44.1 is good enough but it isn't what we got.

I also got nervous that the article pushed the concept that 24/96 x 5 channel DVD-A is what it's about. There was little mention of 24/192. I wonder if DVD is being squarely aimed at a different market, where 16/44.1 is good enough so a jump up to 24/96 is more than suficient. This seemed somewhat confirmed when I looked at the main DVD-A releases (?) which all were 24/96. There may be 24/192 planned but they weren't clearly in the Acoustic Sounds catalogue. I have heard 24/96 x 2 channel and whilst an improvement over 16/44.1 it ain't SACD smooth and realisitic.

So far though the realisation is the Sony SCD-1, 777ES and Marantz SA1 deliver the SACD goods. The Technics DVD-A etc. models do not. They may be aimed at different markets/prices but the killer DVD-A product isn't there yet. It may well be soon but it is likely that the whole DVD-A system will take a year to get where SACD is today.

This excludes any changes/problems caused by watermarking which at least one person has been able to clearly (and statistically) hear. I gather that he is not the only one.

I also find it incredible that the SACD system will not improve or is a tecnically limited product.


 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
Re: Doug Rich Article, posted on November 29, 2000 at 14:05:31
nataraj


 
Hmmm ... I must be missing something. Why are 24/192s far superior to 24/96 ? Personally I can't hear much above 18KHz or so. 96KHz should be enough to take care of the need to have a gentler low pass. To make a subjective call, we've not heard much 192 discs / recordings ... I suspect we will know only after a year or so.

 

Re: Doug Rich Article, posted on November 29, 2000 at 19:47:28
Enzo


 
>>>"It may well be soon but it is likely that the whole DVD-A system will take a year to get where SACD is today."<<<

If ever, if 24/192 remains the final standard. Some recording studio engineers believe a much higher sampling rate should have been adopted for PCM: along the lines of 1-2 MHz say, to really derive a significant increase in quality over RedBook. A sampling rate which incidentally is found in the currently-superior SACD format, albeit via DSD.

 

Re: Doug Rich Article, posted on November 30, 2000 at 12:07:35
I haven't heard high sampling rate music (24/192) so must go on others views who I have some regard for. In an article in Hifi News (a UK based magazine) the editor Martin Colloms and Tony Faulkner compared a variety of hirez outputs from an original recording from TF. The main outcome was that they found the higher the sampling rates the better the sound. The didn't find there was too much gain from more bits once above a certain level.

My own experince has been with 24/96 DADs and SACD.

I discount what I have heard at exhibitions as most of the DVD-As were not what they seemed; ie most were 24/96s although billed as DVD-A (24/192). I do not feel inclined to put too much effort into hearing the current DVD-A machines as all the reviews I have seen are lukewarm and seem to conclude that the medium is great but not in that machine. Jam tomorrow!!

 

Page processed in 0.018 seconds.