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Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached

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Posted on January 13, 2017 at 07:00:50
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007



Hi Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am moving into a new home and my 2 ch setup will be in a 10x10 room (Library). I have a couple of ideas but would love some feedback. Check out the floorplan...



 

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RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 07:02:15
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007



Option 1:

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 07:02:48
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007



Option 2:

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 08:14:10
Rodney Gold
Audiophile

Posts: 1615
Location: Cape Town South Africa
Joined: September 24, 1999
 Speakers aside the french doors , listening position at the window , symmetry is key .. plus they fire to the outside .. less disturbing rest of the house
corner bass traps all round..square rooms need a lot of bass treatment
Some absorption at 1st reflection points , diffusers to stop the flutter echo. spend on quality room treatment


Rodney Gold Cape Town

Roon/tidal>SBT>DIRAC{minidSP DDRC22) Twin Devialet D'Premiers- Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits , dedicated and fully treated room

 

+1, posted on January 13, 2017 at 08:26:58
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15168
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 This arrangement gets my vote. Looks good. Is symmetric. What's not to like about it? Well, your back will be towards the rest of the house, but no biggie and better than having to look at a door!

 

+1, posted on January 13, 2017 at 08:38:51
-æ-
Bored Member

Posts: 788
Joined: May 9, 2013
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 All good points, Rodney!

If you aren't quite noticing or accepting what is really going on in the present,
but are responding based on your thoughts or feelings about what ought to be,
then you are apt to collide with what is really going on.

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 09:37:31
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4393
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 This gets my vote-
Happy Listening

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 09:38:49
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 Where is the gear going to be?

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 10:19:17
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 I would love to have a space like that, but I don't and I never will. Still, I am very happy. It has given me the challenging opportunity to choose the equipment that fits the room, rather than moving my existing equipment into a new room.

If you are a bass lover, it's going to be a real challenge. I'm also fortunate there in that most of the music I listen to is not bass heavy (or important) and I have a pair of modern LS3/5As that allow me to get the speakers away from the walls with very little effort.

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 10:25:14
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
 ...that space is a little small.

I thought my 17' X 14' room was small.

If you can, have dedicated electrical circuits installed, minimum of three (CD player, amplifier, everything else in the system).

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 11:08:52
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 10X10 is really small. I'm the king of small rooms, I have a 10X10 with a small alcove but it's still a 10X10. I can get good near field listening in that room. Another thing to try is going diagonal and keep one of the French doors closed so you have room for your love seat or couch. Bass will be much better that way, surprisingly better. If you can't go diagonal, you'll need dual subs to help fill in the nulls.
Personally I like near field set-ups and you can get good results. When I had small Magnepans in a small room it's more challenging because the Maggies have to go into the room 5 feet so you are really close but it still works.

 

No. Go with the larger room., posted on January 13, 2017 at 14:27:10
Gary
Audiophile

Posts: 1297
Location: New York, NY
Joined: April 21, 2000
 More flexibility. More choices.

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 15:23:58
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007
 Thanks guys for all the suggestions...

In the pic above with the seating in front of the door opening with the doors opened while listening... I'm hoping will "trick" the system into thinking it's playing in a room that's 10' x 25'. The corners beside the door opening will have bookshelfs in each corner with books/cd/lp in them. I'm hoping that this scenario won't be a 10x10 room anymore.

What do you all think?

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 15:32:06
JURB
Audiophile

Posts: 2056
Location: North Ohio
Joined: May 29, 2016
 "Another thing to try is going diagonal and keep one of the French doors closed so you have room for your love seat or couch. Bass will be much better that way, surprisingly better. "

I like diagonal. Usually there is less bass but it is more well defined. It is even better to have the speakers at unequal distances from the corners.

However this can create imaging problems. get too much farther from one and closer to the other and you lose alot.

The other thing is they might want to be able to use both French doors.

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 15:36:14
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Since the area is small, you have a good opportunity to set up a fantastic near field system.

If I were you I would begin the space saving by choosing Genelec self powered speakers. Don't get a sub right away. If you only have one source then you're pretty much done.

 

Two things, posted on January 13, 2017 at 20:36:06
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13976
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 1. Heed Rodney Gold's advice;
2. Install dedicated, isolated electrical outlets.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 13, 2017 at 23:35:35
Rick58
Audiophile

Posts: 1118
Location: No. California
Joined: January 24, 2001



Don't mean to hijack thread but I have a similar 'quandry'. I've got office furniture and a piano shoehorned in here too. Mine is basically ~13' square, so a skoch more room but still ...

I see some suggestions for a diagonal setup, wondering if someone could comment on this? And of course could apply to the OP's setup. I haven't set up the system yet. Have Ikea shelf (4 wide, 2 tall) record rack along the one wall next to the desk.

Speakers are Triangle Tituses on 24" stands, shown as my preferred ~6' triangle nearfield listening arrangement. Thinking the sub could be in the corner, but if it's NOT centered on the window/wall or near/in a corner, maybe would be less prone to excite a room resonance.

I was initially thinking of a symmetrical setup like 'Option 2', My speakers cannot be set up astride the French doors as Rodney suggested ...

I'm thinking about getting the Primacoustic 'London 12' system room treatment kit as well.

 

Hope you find this helpful, posted on January 13, 2017 at 23:41:18
4everyoung
 I wrote this article some time ago detailing the challenges of converting a small, square spare bedroom into a listening room. It can be done but not without some type of acoustic treatment. Best of luck.

Sue

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 14, 2017 at 00:23:25
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Can you swap the sub and the rack location?
Sub in the middle of anything strikes me as a bad idea.

Square rooms are also problematic.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 14, 2017 at 00:59:23
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 I have the same problem: Different wall reflections, and speaker reinforcement. The way I solved this was to search for speakers that imaged well, were placement friendly, could be pulled away from the walls to the maximum effect. (In fact, just one wall; the other is open!). Then i made sure to get a good preamp with 2 channel volume controls. Next came the fiddling.

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 14, 2017 at 03:57:11
Rodney Gold
Audiophile

Posts: 1615
Location: Cape Town South Africa
Joined: September 24, 1999
 It would be best to listen diagonally with the speakers obtaining the same symmetry at the room boundaries.. swinging your speakers about 120 degrees anti clockwise will do that , corner load your sub between the speakers.. you can turn its volume down and benefit from less distortion
Leaves you quite a bit of room to play with
Be careful of a shotgun approach to room treatment.. you need to identify what to treat and where.
I suggest either a software or hardware implementation of Dirac room correction to finish it off DSP has come a long way these days and there are some sterling solutions.

Rodney Gold Cape Town

Roon/tidal>SBT>DIRAC{minidSP DDRC22) Twin Devialet D'Premiers- Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirits , dedicated and fully treated room

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on January 16, 2017 at 10:43:42
Audiopile1
 Go with your original design of couch in front of doors and speakers on either side of window. If you are a DIY person - buy some ATS acoustic panels - build frames with 1X4 from your local Home Depot. Insert panel in frame - cover with fabric of your choice. Can be 2'X48" or size of your choice. Put one in each corner behind speakers and two on each side wall at first reflection point. Treat the back wall on either side of the French door. Play with Cardas triangle first and move around to your taste (fun part)! Thes are your best investment and can be done. Amazing how so many don't do any kind of acoustic treatment and throw money at things like power plugs yada yada yada.

 

UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 14, 2018 at 18:55:53
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007
 A year and half later... It's done! Original post I asked if the floorplan below would work and I got great advice here so I thought I'd post my room now that it is finally done.

Original floorplan pic with my idea mock-up. I got rid of the glass French doors that was suppose to close the library and added sliding doors instead to "trick" the setup into thinking it wasn't in a 10 X 10 room anymore while the doors are slid open. This was met with great, great amazing success. Bass is plentiful and taught and this system images way beyond my expectations. Positioning the speakers took a lot, and I mean A LOT of experimentation and eventually it all just clicked into the best sounding room I have ever had in the past.



The original floor plan idea showing removal of the French doors and system setup idea...






The finished product...























Still need a bookshelf for the rear right side of the room for all the vinyl. I can't find anything that would work with the decor. IKEA stuff is too modern for this application. Thinking
To get something custom made at this point.

Thanks for looking and thanks for all the great advice in getting me here.

Cheers!

 

RE: UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 14, 2018 at 19:53:03
TubeDriver
Audiophile

Posts: 794
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 16, 2007
 That is a tiny room but it looks great and the system appears a good match for it. Is there a window on the wall behind the speakers?

 

RE: UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 14, 2018 at 20:12:56
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007
 Yes, higher above the component rack, you can kind of see the bottom trim of the window in one of the pics. Deciding on fabric choices currently. That should improve things further, although not too problematic right now.

 

RE: Help me with my new Audio Room, floorpan attached, posted on November 15, 2018 at 05:51:00
TubeDriver
Audiophile

Posts: 794
Location: East Coast
Joined: February 16, 2007
 Yes, opening the doors will make your room acousically act like a 25x10 room. The only issue is that your seating position could be located where some type of node falls and you don't have much flexability with location. But that might not be a problem.

 

RE: UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 15, 2018 at 06:20:19
BillH
Audiophile

Posts: 3913
Location: Baton Rouge
Joined: December 23, 1999
 As it appears easily moveable, take that nice chair and move it back in stages until the front is even with the edge of the rug. That's what I do with my chair, which is a Campeche-style rocker.

 

RE: UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 15, 2018 at 10:18:59
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007
 Thanks for the advice. I was extremely happy with how it was setup but tried what you said out of curiosity, but as suspected it sends me too far out of the "Triangle", puts my ears into the other room which completely confused the sound stage. The way it all is set as pictured gives glorious full, quick sound with plenty of quick bass and the midrange/vocals is probably award winning. Like I say, best sound I have ever had compared to my previous home setups. Last home the room was too big for what I had (still pretty good though), home before that the room was too rectangle, very thin and very long, zero soundstage, lost bass.

With the chair in that position I sit approx 10 inches farther from each speaker in relation to how far they are apart, this gave perfect results at about 74" back and speakers 64" apart. Toe-in axis meets 6" behind my head which is when everything just "clicked" right into place. I guess this is almost what they call a nearfield setup. However, if I close the doors the sound gets utterly destroyed, I never have a need to close the doors anyhow and the room still has that quaint feel with them open. Oh and when we have (had 1 so far) dinner parties in the adjoining dining room... great dinner music!

 

RE: UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 15, 2018 at 11:15:04
BillH
Audiophile

Posts: 3913
Location: Baton Rouge
Joined: December 23, 1999
 It occurred to me that moving too much might put your ears in another room, and I'm glad you've been able to work out the geometry for optimum placement. Keeping the doors open no doubt creates a reverberant soundfield. Enjoy that whiskey!

 

RE: UPDATE - Home has since been built and room set up!, posted on November 15, 2018 at 13:16:22
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007
 Not really detecting any over-reverb coming back into the 10X10 space, closing the doors makes a mess! Doors closed will make for good vibe with headphones maybe. Ah.. the Whiskey, yes I'm new to this. I'm currently developing my tastes with different varieties of scotch.

 

Nice, but very up-close and personal. Love the Alcohol rack. Did you place speaker at null points?, posted on November 16, 2018 at 18:39:51
jdaniel@jps.net
 ...on the prime numbers, both W and L intersects?

 

RE: Nice, but very up-close and personal. Love the Alcohol rack. Did you place speaker at null points?, posted on November 16, 2018 at 20:47:35
Jazzyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 36
Joined: December 29, 2007
 Sorry, I think I typed wrong in my last post, I've since edited that post. Chair is just over 6' back from the speakers. Speakers 64" apart.

 

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