General Asylum

General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories.

Return to General Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

System optimization...

67.188.166.191
Posted on October 26, 2016 at 08:16:17
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
 ...I came across this article in Audio Beat yesterday written by Roy Gregory about Stirling Trayle's audio system optimization service.

I knew Stirling during the 1980s when he worked at dB Audio in Berkeley. Then he and John Hunter, who also worked there, bought Sumiko.

The article goes into detail about what Stirling does to optimize an audio system and should give you some insight into some steps you can take to optimize yours.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
I wanted to do that, posted on October 26, 2016 at 09:05:52
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 I'd bring stuff to try but wouldn't sell it either and deal with setup, room, isolation and vibration damping and AC delivery, the final frontier.


ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

$10,000 worth of isolation. That should get em in the ballpark. nt, posted on October 26, 2016 at 09:31:37
geoffkait
 nt

 

Brick wall, bare hardwood floor. Why bother...? , posted on October 26, 2016 at 10:05:29
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10583
Joined: April 12, 2002
 And the room with stuff everywhere on the floor.
No Thanks!

 

Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 10:13:27
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 I would think that any system optimization should begin, first and foremost with the room itself. Unfortunately, that is often the last thing considered.

We have lots of examples from audio shows of dealers putting thousands of dollars worth of equipment into hotel rooms, and it sounding horrible (a thankless task for dealers, I would think).

 

And the $40k Odin speaker cables :) -nt, posted on October 26, 2016 at 10:47:03
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37666
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 .

 

RE: Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 11:40:20
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
 ...he talks about the importance of dealing with the infrastructure - the room, the A/C and vibration control.

 

RE: Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 12:07:03
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Yes often people set up gear to fit the existing layout of furniture rather plan the room around optimal system placement. WAF plays a rile for many.
Room treatment after gear is optimally placed is big. Made a huge difference for me.


ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: System optimization..., posted on October 26, 2016 at 12:19:18
gordguide
Audiophile

Posts: 302
Joined: January 20, 2002
 I've performed a similar process many times for others, and with my own system, I usually do it every two years or so, if not more often due to some change in the system itself. It's a very important part of how a system sounds, and you cannot get the value you paid for in components without addressing setup.

 

RE: System optimization..., posted on October 26, 2016 at 12:34:34
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3538
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Optimizing the system is a life long battle. Things that work, later reveal unacceptable warts. I guess that's the "joy" of this hobby

 

RE: Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 12:36:23
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I know this is kind of a chicken and egg thing... but what comes first? Optimal placement or room treatment?

I guess it would depend on WAF.

But let's assume a man cave situation where there need not be a WAF. Would you start with an empty room and go from there? Or would you put the equipment in THEN start taking measurements OR ideally, would it be best to treat a room before AND after placement of components?

 

Acceptable if it's just for audio geeks..., posted on October 26, 2016 at 12:41:39
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 But my living room where regular people are going to visit all that cabling on the floor and crap everywhere is not going to fly. I won't even blame WAF. I take full responsibility.

 

+1 nt, posted on October 26, 2016 at 13:08:36
RealStereo
 nt




 

RE: Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 13:51:57
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
 ...I would start with speaker placement/listening seat first and optimize it first for best response.

Then I would deal with the speaker/room interaction with room treatments.

While you can eliminate first reflections, you only be able to minimize, not eliminate, bass standing waves.

 

RE: Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 14:24:16
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 2248
Joined: January 9, 2006
 Yes, he does indeed appear to be quite thorough in his approach.

 

RE: System optimization..., posted on October 26, 2016 at 14:30:13
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Excellent!

 

RE: Room, posted on October 26, 2016 at 15:19:05
erik_sq
Audiophile

Posts: 150
Location: San Francisco Bay
Joined: September 28, 2016
 And most audiophiles don't care.

I sure do! :)

But based on the chatter and buzz, audiophiles buy with their eyes.

 

Any idea how much it costs? Nt, posted on October 27, 2016 at 03:12:28
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 Nt

 

Yup, posted on October 27, 2016 at 05:30:18
Dave_K
 I read through that whole article and the only thing he did to either room was to place a rug between the speakers and listening position in the first room. And despite all the tweaking of speaker placement, no mention of optimizing the listening position, seating, furniture placement, etc. Maybe Roy Gregory had declared all of that to be off-limits, we don't know. But these seem like very serious omissions, not what I would expect from a guy who is supposedly a paid expert in room setup.

Anther thing struck me as strange: how can Roy Gregory listen to (let alone review) high end audio systems in a space like that first room? Bare brick walls, bare floor, bare ceiling, rectangular geometry. It's a recipe for slap echo from hell. It's 13 feet wide and it looks like the system isn't even centered due to the doorway on the right. The second room isn't much better but at least the placement looks reasonable.

 

If you have to ask....nt, posted on October 27, 2016 at 05:39:21
geoffkait
 Nt

 

Inquiring minds want to know! , posted on October 27, 2016 at 05:40:14
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 How much would you charge?

 

I wouldn't want to pay for this by the hour..., posted on October 27, 2016 at 06:32:17
genungo
 .., at least not in a "Living Wage" city or locale. And, especially, not with paid lunch and bathroom breaks.

Down In Texas, OTOH? Optimizers might accept free room and board for a week as payment.

 

According to the article ..., posted on October 27, 2016 at 06:39:50
-æ-
Bored Member

Posts: 788
Joined: May 9, 2013
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 "Price: From $1500 plus expenses."

If you aren't quite noticing or accepting what is really going on in the present,
but are responding based on your thoughts or feelings about what ought to be,
then you are apt to collide with what is really going on.

 

RE: Inquiring minds want to know! , posted on October 27, 2016 at 08:24:40
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 38130
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
 ...he does it over the phone :-)

 

RE: System optimization..., posted on October 27, 2016 at 08:32:26
genungo
 Why?

 

Thanks-I missed that., posted on October 27, 2016 at 12:16:23
hawkmoon
Audiophile

Posts: 903
Location: cleveland
Joined: July 11, 2003
 Nt

 

OK., posted on October 27, 2016 at 13:03:11
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Instead of ten hours at $80/hr how about a flat rate of $800? Then can I go pee if needed?


ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: According to the article ..., posted on October 27, 2016 at 13:31:22
PAR
 It's the "plus expenses" that's the killer. Who decides what they are? Presumably he may ensure that all travel is first class, hotels 5 star, meals only at the nearest Michelin starred restaurant etc.

Even if I am just saying this to make a point, what control do customers have?

 

RE: According to the article ..., posted on October 27, 2016 at 17:20:21
-æ-
Bored Member

Posts: 788
Joined: May 9, 2013
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 >>what control do customers have?

Plenty. They can establish their own budget--much like
they would for a piece of gear--and spend accordingly.


If you aren't quite noticing or accepting what is really going on in the present,
but are responding based on your thoughts or feelings about what ought to be,
then you are apt to collide with what is really going on.

 

RE: According to the article ..., posted on November 3, 2016 at 06:32:57
Roy Gregory
Reviewer

Posts: 4
Joined: September 17, 2012
 By way of clarification, please note that the majority of the images for this article are drawn from the system optimisation detailed in the review. They show work in progress rather than the end result. The conditions (room decor, listening seat etc) in this case are a given - and a major contributor to the challenge. The whole point of choosing this room/system was to see what could be achieved in a distinctly real-world environment with limited options.

The image with the large yellow "poster" between the speakers is my room. This is a dedicated work-space that suffers none of the domestic constraints that normally impinge on system set up: hence the sheer quantity of equipment in evidence, the trailing cables etc.

You may notice that this piece appears in the Equipment Reviews section of TheAudioBeat.com. That is quite deliberate, inviting people to consider for a moment that set up and installation are a vital part of actually realising component performance. Just like painting a picture, we can all do it - but some of us are (considerably) better at it than others.

Finally, as regards pricing, I believe that the cost is $1500 for the first day, $1000 for subsequent days on the same visit. Expenses cover travel and accommodation and are agreed in advance.

 

Page processed in 0.037 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]