General Asylum

General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories.

Return to General Asylum

Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses

24.65.138.127
Posted on July 19, 2016 at 10:19:57
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 Upon demoing equipment at a local salon, it soon became obvious that the dealer had no clue. His recommendations for sound quality increases were perfectly proportionate to price.
Now this is usually true within one brand, but for it to be true when mixing manufacturers, would mean all manufacturers would have to listen to every competing product, and price it perfectly between better and worse.
It's also obvious that if the dealer agreed that his $1200 DAC sounded better than his $5000 DAC, he would be agreeing that the $5K one is over priced, and it would never sell. Another example is a $12,500 AMP is necessarily better than an $11,500 AMP.
Not to say a $1200 cable can't sound better than an $1100 cable in one's system context.
The take away lesson here would be that alot of components are miss-priced, high or low, alot of price over-lap exists. And one mustn't get caught up with price.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 11:48:22
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46295
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002

The cynic in me would say that the dealer took his cue from reading too many magazine reviews and their price-proportional rankings.

I wouldn't say that a lot of components are miss-priced. They are priced at what the market will bear for a particular (loosely defined) segment.

So of course that shiny new $10,000 DAC with the thick front panel wrapped in the latest marketing spin must sound better than the $900 unit built in a folded sheet metal enclosure. It just has too!



 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 12:05:04
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 The $10K DAC "probably" does sound better, but what kills me is the
$1300 one sounds better than the $1200 which sounds better than the $1100 one.

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 12:11:15
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46295
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 But does the $15,000 DAC sound better than the $12,000 one?

I wouldn't know 'cuz I don't have that kind of coin to throw at audio gear. It's all relative though. My pain point begins around $2K - $5K depending on the piece I'm buying so that's the 'segment' I live in.

And guess what? The $1200 MSRP DAC that I presently use sounds significantly better to me than the $5000 unit I had a year ago. Go figure. ;-)



 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 12:41:46
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 22597
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
 Several forces at work here.
Sure, TODAYS product might or maybe even SHOULD sound better than the same 'thing' from 2, 3 or even 5 years ago. Don't doubt for a second the subtle and NOT so subtle progress being made.

The 2nd factor is the 'more expensvie MUST be better' line of thought. If my thought, above, is correct, no reason at ALL for a 1000$ DAC today to not outperform the same price point from a few years back AND probably even 2x or 3x that price. From a few years ago.

You can make your OWN allowances for the fact of Inflation. Figure maybe 20% since 2006. That 1000 DAC in 2006 is about 1200$ in TODAYs money.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 12:52:31
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 Ya, me too, $2K to $5k, but I have nothing against the $100 cable or the $15,000 DAC, they both have their place.
But what we'll never know is if the "$100" cable is priced $2495 just because a big name is on it.

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 12:59:40
megasat16
Audiophile

Posts: 207
Location: SoCal
Joined: April 15, 2015
 No all manufacturers are geniuses but I'd say you have met a genius dealer indeed! This guy has all of this figured out for the better sounding rig!
.
.
.Thou shall not stand where I type for I carry a bottle of Certified Audiophile Air and a Pure Silver Whip.

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 13:35:17
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 Just struck me...wouldn't it be cool if a dealer auditioned all his equipment in the various combos, then DID price them accordingly, with MSRP only as a guideline. He'd make less on some, more on others, but at least the buyer could say that $500 upsale was worth it!

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 13:44:17
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46295
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have nothing against dealers (most of them anyway!). Many are in the business because they enjoy the hobby as much as we do and it affords them the opportunity to play with lots of gear and make a living at it too.

I do have a problem with walking into a dealer's store, playing around with his stuff, then buying it online at a better price or used off Audiogon. If I visit a dealer and like what he shows me, I'll buy it from him. I won't shop it around for best price.

On the other hand, I do have a problem with dealers who have aggressive idiot sales people. I walked into one store many years ago and the snotty nosed kid with his wrinkled white dress shirt and crooked tie walks up and says, "so how much are we spending today"? What an ass.

Even though this dealer carried the brand and specific model I was interested in, I DID shop that one around because they were the only so-called "authorized dealer" for this brand in my area.... and the sales person was an ass!



 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 14:53:51
geoffkait
 But what we'll never know is if the "$100" cable is priced $2495 just because a big name is on it.

Really? Never?

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 16:08:29
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 well Geoff, I guess we could know, if compared, the $100 and $2400 sound identical, the the $2400 really is only a $100 cable. Or maybe the $100 cable is really worth $2400! That's what I mean by "never know"

And I'm on board with not wasting the dealers time if I'm gonna buy it online. Do your research and take a chance.

Not saying I know everything, but I do know everything can't be priced absolutely in order of there SQ. And HE should know better than I which ones are over priced. He can't stay in business if he tells me. If he has any salt, he would just quietly drop the brand. Unless there's a big demand for the name of course, regardless of sound.
I want a Nagra, don't care how it sounds...

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 19, 2016 at 16:21:50
bigshow
Audiophile

Posts: 472
Location: WI
Joined: December 3, 2012
 Reason number 768 why good dealers are worth their weight in gold.
bigshow

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 22, 2016 at 06:09:48
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Good story Abe.

 

Was that a hair salon? The takeaway here is......, posted on July 22, 2016 at 12:02:13
viridian
 you shouldn't buy audio gear from stylists. Not that most audio salespeople are much better, and they usually have much worse hair and skin.

 

RE: Was that a hair salon? The takeaway here is......, posted on July 23, 2016 at 09:08:22
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 Now there's a concept in marketing. The hot stylist plunks you down in front of a descent audio rig, then cuts your hair!

 

RE: According to a local dealer, manufacturers must all be geniuses, posted on July 29, 2016 at 08:09:53
Bromo33333
Audiophile

Posts: 3502
Location: Ipswich, MA
Joined: May 4, 2004
 I don't know what to tell you, except most dealers tend to have auditioned a number of componnets from a number of makers and usually have a lineup of price/performance points for anyone coming into the store. You won't hear soemthing out of step since all the "it's good but not as good as the price would have you think" isn't in the store since they weeded those out.

I will also point out that what makes an audio component sound good is understood enough that manufacturers make few mis-steps (at least the experienced ones) in price vs performance within their line, and usually compared to others.

I think the price steps and performance steps themselves might be up for debate as how steeply prices rise for performance increases (when nobody has made a mistake), and the high price of caseworks or other features some may not care for are still baked into the price ... but most experienced dealers have usually figured out what they think gives their customers choice and value and weeded out any poor choices.

(And of course, if there are no margins in some components for them, I don't blame them for not carrying said widget. They want to be paid).


====
"You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you." ~ R A Wilson

 

Page processed in 0.028 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]