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Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market)

108.233.126.68
Posted on May 26, 2016 at 01:31:08
FrankC
Audiophile

Posts: 1230
Location: Silicon Valley
Joined: April 6, 2000
 So, I just sold an item online last week. The buyer sent me payment via PayPal Thursday night. And I shipped the item Friday morning via USPS 2-day priority across the country from the west coast. It was stated in my ad that I would use USPS Priority, but never mentioned 2-days.

I sent the tracking info to the buyer right after I left the post office. So Tuesday came around, and the buyer got restless and emailed me demanding I contact the post office to get some answers. I snap a picture of my receipt and sent it to him, then snap a picture of the info on the web for him. It showed that the item had reached the San Francisco sorting facilities on Saturday. But didn't look like it left. The website did indicate estimated delivery day to be Monday. I called the post office customer service today (Wednesday) and they adviced me to wait another day. If no progress tomorrow, then I could initiate an investigation. The person did say the "2-day" priority is just an estimate. (what!?)

I forwarded all that info to the buyer. But he seems like he's unhappy with the situation and is giving me an ultimatum or he wants to back out of the transaction, basically asking me to refund him.

Just curious if others have similar experience and advice. The item is shipped insured. So I can always file a claim. But I'm just curious as to where a seller's responsibility ends when it comes to two private parties on an used market? And in this case, it's the USPS who is slow, not me.

If I refund him the money now, and the package reaches him in a few days, wouldn't I be on the short end of the stick? Do I recall the package and wait for it to return before issuing him a refund on PayPal? If it's a refund, does PayPal refund him the fee too? Or do I eat that cost? And who covers the shipping cost in this case?

Thanks in advance,
FrankC

 

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RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 26, 2016 at 03:24:58
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2446
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 Do not give a refund. The buyer should check with the post office and find out what the problem is. If you marked that the item was shipped with Paypal there is no problem ! It sounds like the buyer is being very unreasonable !

 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 26, 2016 at 05:03:06
The Dill
Audiophile

Posts: 2199
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: July 1, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 3, 2016
 Do not refund yet, you did everything right. You don't want him to get have the item and the money too. Sometimes things happen (weather), scanning is not fool proof and even PM can take longer than estimated. You can't count Saturday & Sunday in the time estimate.

 

""2-day" priority is just an estimate. (what!?)", posted on May 26, 2016 at 07:47:28
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 That's nothing.

You can pay the $22.95 for a Priority Overnight letter from our local Post Office.

The USPS website says"

"Overnight Delivery Guarantee1

Our fastest domestic service, with limited exceptions, available 365 days a year, with a money-back guarantee1 and delivery shipping to most U.S. addresses, including PO Boxes™2. Beginning at $22.95 at Post Office™ locations and online."

However? Our local Post Office guarantees that it will leave OUR location, and spend the following day in Greenville, SC, only to be delivered the day after that.

That's why lots of folks walk across the street to my shop & send documents that actually ARRIVE the next day with UPS or FedEx for about the same price. :)

 

Sounds like you've done everything correctly and that the buyer just..., posted on May 26, 2016 at 08:46:39
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 needs to chill out and be reasonable.

Has he NEVER ordered ANYTHING through the mail before?!?

If he becomes particularly irrational or turns into a dick just let me know and I'll go have a chat with him.

BTW ALL priority mail delivery time is an estimate. I mail a LOT of stuff USPS and I'd guestimate 70% arrives
within the stated parameters, 20% sooner and 10% a bit later.

It ALL gets there and always has.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Thanks for all the good advices, posted on May 26, 2016 at 09:05:53
FrankC
Audiophile

Posts: 1230
Location: Silicon Valley
Joined: April 6, 2000
 Went on to Paypal to update with the shipping info. Then initiated a formal inquiry with the post office to track down the package this morning. Notify the buyer that I've done so and provided him the inquiry case number.

This is why I really hate selling stuff......Pain in the rear...

FrankC

 

"About the same price" sorry no, posted on May 26, 2016 at 11:26:02
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 I live rurally and exclusively use the post office because it is a 55 mile round trip to the closest Fed Ex or UPS. The post office does say their priority doesn't have a two day guarantee. When I send stuff to the nearby DC area it usually only takes one day. Since I use the small flat rate box for about $6 flat rate regardless of weight it's by far the best value in domestic shipping. Usually places farther away take three days. Still for the price to me it's the best value.
Your about the same price claim does not stand up however. An overnight UPS letter from Virginia to California with the least expensive next day by 5 PM option is 42.80. Even the two day option econmy by 5PM is more, it is 28.72.
The post office flat rate pricing policy regardless of distance makes it a much better option on longer distances. Even a less than one hundred mile overnight letter costs more at UPS but only about $5.
I've shipped hundreds of domestic packages and only had one problem.

ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 26, 2016 at 11:32:34
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 I'm sorry you had a problem. I only had a problem one time in several hundred small packages either small or medium flat rate priority.
PayPal is going to side with the buyer if it gets to that point. Hopefully it arrives in the next day or so. What is the packages destination?

ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

"About the same price" - yes, posted on May 26, 2016 at 16:43:32
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 ET, come to my shop.

No, I won't say UPS is always comparable, but I'll give you a FedEx rate in that ballpark.

From my location 28777 to most of California? FedEx Next Day Air in a FedEx envelope will run you between $22 to $32 - depending on commercial/residential, and specific location.

 

You did everything you could. , posted on May 26, 2016 at 16:54:08
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 I have learned that for a big ticket item like a turntable, I make a picture documentary of the thing getting secured and boxed then snap a quick pic of the box at the post office, then I send a tracking number along with the email that contains all the pictures.

I even post a video of the turntable on youtube showing it's working and playing music.

Seems like a lot of hassle, but with the iphone it's really only like 5 minutes and it's a huge relief for me and the buyer.

Paypal would get a forward of the email if I ever had a batshit crazy buyer like the one you seem to have. The only time I ever had a problem was when I sold off an American Girl doll my daughter was "over." Doll people are nutso! But the price was so stupid it was worth dealing with the nut.

In addition, if it ever happens that whatever I send gets destroyed, I immediately issue a full refund. It's not the buyer's fault. I take it up with the shipping company.

 

But, posted on May 26, 2016 at 17:31:37
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 You were the one that said UPS or Fed Ex not me. I picked the one with less letters to input

ET

But as I am curious I just went to FedEx.com and the pricing I got contradicts your numbers.
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: "About the same price" - no again, posted on May 26, 2016 at 17:54:04
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Are you quoting your cost as a dealer or something? I put in 22601 as the sending zip, 95401 as the destination zip. Eight ounces, fed ex envelope and drop off at a fed ex location and the cheapest over night is $38 for 3 PM next day delivery at FedEx.com. $71 if you want 9AM delivery.

So what gives?

ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

From my location to 95401..., posted on May 27, 2016 at 09:38:22
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 If you're sending to a residential address, I'm $27.52

If you're going to a commercial address, I'm $25.67

That's the actual cost, paid by the customer who walks in to send the envelope.

 

RE: From my location to 95401..., posted on May 27, 2016 at 09:41:06
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Kinda proves my point that the flat rate regardless of where you are from the USPS saves money. Lots of money when you ship hundreds of packages.

ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 27, 2016 at 12:08:00
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
You have done absolutely everything a seller can do in this situation. The rest is on USPS. If the buyer doesn't like that it's to bad. I have had the same situation and once they buyer receives the item and starts using it the excitement of having it usually calms the down. Unless they are a real A-Hole. You will just have to see.....

 

RE: Thanks for all the good advices, posted on May 27, 2016 at 13:39:24
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46295
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Sorry to hear that you're having problems with shipping. Not that it will help you this time, but I avoid the USPS at all cost. They're tracking system is a joke and I don't trust their carriers.

I've had much better luck with UPS and FedEx. If I were a retailer or manufacturer looking to save money as costs add up, I might consider USPS. But for a one-off shipment on an expensive piece of equipment I gladly pay the premium for FedEx, and then UPS.

Sounds like you've done everything right on your end. I would give it a couple days after the holiday before I'd get real worried over it.



 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 27, 2016 at 18:30:50
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 Frank USPS will tell you outright if you ask when purchasing a second day air "stamp" that the two days is only an estimate and it might take 3 days. Only UPS, FEDEX and probably DHL as well guarantee a 2nd day air will be delivered on the second day. Now as for your buyer I'd tell him that there's no way you can control the delivery of the mail. You sent the parcel second day air like you said you would and if USPS is late he should complain to his local post office upon receipt of the parcel! Who knows maybe if he complains enough they'll refund the shipping costs! I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. Sleep with a clear conscious, you've done all you could to make things happen as promised. This buyer just needs to learn to relax a little bit...

I'm listening to: From The Redwoods To The Rockies by Russ Freeman & Craig Chaquico







Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

RE: You did everything you could. , posted on May 27, 2016 at 18:49:45
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 6112
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
 MannyE I like your idea about making a video of the gear working and posting it on YouTube. That would go a LOOOOOOOOONG way with a lot of potential buyers. I'd even go a step further and have a friend video me taking the piece of gear out of the system and packaging it ---{that way the buyer couldn't claim the video of the gear working could have been taken months before and only posted on YouTube now to give the appearance that it was working fine now}--- After 300+ audio sales I've recently learned the hard way to cover my butt at all times when buying or selling audio gear...


I'm listening to: From The Redwoods To The Rockies by Russ Freeman & Craig Chaquico







Thetubeguy1954 (Tom)

Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns --- High Sensitivity Speakers


 

I sell a lot of gear.........., posted on May 28, 2016 at 10:18:27
viridian
 and the answer here is pretty simple. If you told him that you would send the gear via priority and you did, then you have satisfied that part of the transaction and it is only prudent for him to wait a few days for the item to turn up. Don't refund his money. Then he will have the money and the goods.

If, on the other hand, you told him that it would be there in two days, then you assumed liability for that and you have failed to live up to your end of the agreement. I still would not refund the money until you have the product back in hand or the post office says it is lost so that you can pursue your claim. Either way your buyer is unrealistic and unreasonable. Live and learn and good luck with it turning out well.

 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 28, 2016 at 11:52:05
jimmycj
Audiophile

Posts: 1507
Joined: December 6, 2004
 No refund. You dont know what shape it truly arrives in. There its has to bounce all over the place back to you.Buyers need to be serious when buying.

 

Happy Ending, posted on May 29, 2016 at 00:07:50
FrankC
Audiophile

Posts: 1230
Location: Silicon Valley
Joined: April 6, 2000
 Well, the item arrived in Wisconsin on Friday morning and was delivered that afternoon. The buyer is happy, and I am relieved.

The surprising part of all of this was how responsive USPS was. The first time I called, I got a robot. But after digging a little further I found a customer service number to call and actually spoke to a person. After I filed a request for investigation, I actually got a call from the post office in Wisconsin. The guy actually checked the system a few times each day for me, and left me a voicemail on Friday morning that the item had arrived at his post office and was sent out for delivery. Wow! I would never expected that from USPS.

FrankC

 

Very good! Glad it worked out for you., posted on May 29, 2016 at 07:17:19
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46295
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
.

 

The USPS often gets a (very undeserved) bad rap. , posted on May 29, 2016 at 07:27:42
MWE
Audiophile

Posts: 2202
Location: Burlington, NC
Joined: June 8, 2000
 Nice to hear of the good outcome.

Mark in NC
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon

 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 29, 2016 at 10:29:46
onemug
Audiophile

Posts: 1276
Location: So. California
Joined: April 19, 2003
 Didn't read all the posts below but would like to add this for anyone doing a search in the future.

Re USPS Priority Mail...

I found out the "long" way (not the hard way) that Priority Mail means "2-3 day, not guaranteed". They do have it in writing but you have to look for it.

It usually is 2 days, sometimes 3 if you are in a more remote area.

Priority Mail Express is "money back guaranteed" overnight. Of course it costs more but to some buyers it may be worth it.

Another of my experiences...Priority Mail often can be pretty wonky over the Xmas Holidays.

 

RE: Seller/buyer responsibility? (used market), posted on May 29, 2016 at 11:49:31
stehno
Manufacturer

Posts: 739
Location: Oregon
Joined: November 8, 2001
 You neglected to ask the buyer before completing the transaction if he ever experienced abnormal or psychotic tendencies.

I've had buyers like that. Regardless of how much reasonable due diligence the seller may have performed, It seems rather difficult for them to let the seller off the hook.

 

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