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Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana

8.25.246.235
Posted on April 24, 2016 at 11:32:46
SoundMann
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 Am I alone in finding the majority of modern equipment amusical? Is the pursuit of imaging and resolve really more important?

Why can I only find true contentment in the best of the old?

 

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    ...
Help!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 12:15:52
genungo
 "Musical"?

You have dared to use the "M" word, now please help define it.

 

Well..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 12:42:27
musetap
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 "Am I alone in finding the majority of modern equipment amusical?"

Probably not.

"Is the pursuit of imaging and resolve really more important?"

Certainly to some, but not to all.

"Why can I only find true contentment in the best of the old?"

Lucky? Fortunate?

Is there a problem? Are you unhappy? What are you searching for?

Most importantly, is there anything wrong with being content?

There shouldn't be, there shouldn't be...

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Well..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 12:57:29
SoundMann
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 I am only unhappy because there seems to be no suitable replacements for anywhere near a sane amount, if at all!

It is getting increasingly difficult to keep the old stuff in working order.

 

RE: Help!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 12:59:45
SoundMann
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 Musical = warm, inviting, involving, natural, non-fatiguing sound!

 

I completely agree!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:03:39
gkirkos
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 Im very happy w my restored 1980 vintage Lp12and Grace cartridge

SO much new stuff sounds like crap, and it doesnt matter how much you spend.


Somewhere along the way we lost the music. I think the influenceof digital is to blame to some degree, but its also a cultural thing of accuracy at all costs.

 

RE: I completely agree!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:04:45
SoundMann
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 Yes, digital ruined everything!

 

RE: Help!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:08:18
ahendler
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 That describes my system
Shindo preamp, David Berning power amps, Maggie 3.6 speakers, Rega turntable, Audio-GD Master7 dac. I love the fact that I can totally lose myself in the beauty of this system
Alan

 

RE: I completely agree!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:12:19
gkirkos
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 it Even ruined new analog!

Many new turntables leave me cold, and new vinyl, thats made from digital masters, is awful.

and im not old, Im 44! So i grew up with digital, and didnt know what i was missing until rceently.


its not nostalgia, its music.

 

Can't say I agree, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:20:11
Feanor
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 My modern equipment sound pretty good, (and it's not even high end).

Plenty of crappy recordings out there, though, but I don't think it's the job of playback equipment to make them tolerable.



Dmitri Shostakovich

 

BIG 1970's sound?, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:21:18
genungo
 I'd venture to guess that you might like a big, biG, BIG pair of cone + dome speakers that have some upper bass/lower midrange emphasis.

A pair of used Harbeth M-40.1 speakers should serve your needs just fine. Expect to pay upwards of $7000...

The updated 40.2 version sells for only $15,000 but I believe that they sound a bit more "modern" than the older 40.1 version does.

Good Luck in your quest for *musical nirvana*.

 

RE: I completely agree!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:26:02
SoundMann
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 Yes, absolutely! I am 47, and have been listening to records since I was born ('68).

I think that I am going to have to go back to a full tube front-end just to keep interested in this hobby (high maintenance)!

 

RE: BIG 1970's sound?, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:28:15
SoundMann
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 I have enough speakers, big or otherwise. They are not the problem.

 

RE: BIG 1970's sound?, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:32:17
SoundMann
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 Most of my critical listening is done with headphones anyhow.

 

My system's a mix old and new., posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:35:13
olddude55
 Personally, I agree with Feanor, below. Doubtful that a tube or transistor cares when it was first powered up.
Lots of shitty recordings though. Every era has its own idiom, seems to me. Today's is compressed, gritty, lacking in detail.
Speaking in general terms of course. There are always exceptions.

 

RE: My system's a mix old and new., posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:38:49
G Squared
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 Me to.

A PC based digital source with an old school system. Good recordings can be found.
Gsquared

 

RE: My system's a mix old and new., posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:39:01
SoundMann
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 I listen to precious few recordings beyond the '70's. Yes, there is great, and not so great from this era.

But precious few are anywhere near as bad as those made since!

 

RE: "musical" headphones, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:55:53
genungo
 I really like Senneheiser HD-650 when I'm in the mood for a relaxing listen. Powered by my balanced-drive DNA Sonett amp, they really come alive in a very (ahem!) *musical* way.

Slightly dark sounding, the sonic perspective they provide reminds me of when I'm sitting several rows back from the performance, in a large hall venue. I consider them to be the ideal headphones when I'm listening to large-scale classical music recordings.

 

No and yes, posted on April 24, 2016 at 13:58:16
Awe-d-o-file
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 I find excellent imaging very rare regardless of the price of the gear and Ive heard many high dollar setup. While how a system sounds tonally is very subjective for the most part image size is not.

Many agree that digital which is inthe modern group is less musical and while I feel overall it is generally true the are many exceptions but they still represent and pretty large minority of systems.


ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

You seem to be saying that "imaging and resolve" are being pursued at the expense of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:04:30
genungo
 ... something called "musicality".

If the root of this problem is not loudspeakers then where does the root of this problem lie? Would you suggest that *digital sound* alone is to blame?

 

RE: You seem to be saying that "imaging and resolve" are being pursued at the expense of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:14:04
SoundMann
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 What I am saying is, digital has not only ruined recordings, but the objectives concerning the very pursuit of what things should sound like!

 

RE: You seem to be saying that "imaging and resolve" are being pursued at the expense of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:15:22
SoundMann
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 The sound of today's speakers ARE part of the problem!

 

Took me a while to think about this, better sound or were we younger, posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:16:39
bullethead
 Initial reaction was sure, I remember my old receiver, and the vintage equipment my friend had setup when we were in high school and just discovering beer and pot.

However, is it really better, was it really better? Or does it just get consistently worse as you get older and yearn for the life energy you once had?

For me my experience is everything has compounded and is getting exponentially worse.

System sounds good but that's about all I got to smile upon. Even the pleasure is all gone, I am left with a soulless feeling with a half smoked cigar in my hand.

 

OK, ok... , posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:25:12
genungo
 !

 

RE: Took me a while to think about this, posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:38:47
genungo
 Sounds like you need more hope, not more or better tobacco and electronics.

 

RE: Took me a while to think about this, posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:40:54
bullethead
 I need hope and (pocket) change.

Yes we can!

 

Sometime around 1980..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 14:55:31
olddude55
 and for five or six years after that, a lot of popular music was ear-bleedingly bright.
Late-1980's/through the 1990's was better.
Now, it's just a lot of compression and a lack of dynamics.

 

Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 15:05:27
AbeCollins
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Why can I only find true contentment in the best of the old?

Maybe you're old. ;-)

I'll back that up by saying that I think many of us cling to what we're familiar with along with the nostalgia and romance for the past. You know, your happy places and happy times in association with the equipment you owned back then.

Personally, I remember some pretty crappy AND outstanding sounds from the equipment I owned back in the 1970's and 1980's. Oh and guess what? I have the exact same experiences with modern day equipment!


 

RE: Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 15:11:53
SoundMann
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 No, it is really a question of musicality, or lack thereof! The majority of modern components are full of fatigue, and devoid of harmonic content.

Soundstage, imaging, details up the wazoo! but little to no musicality!

 

RE: Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 15:28:36
SoundMann
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 Just like digital!

 

RE: Well..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 15:31:43
musetap
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 There's still a LOT of good old stuff available and plenty of folk that can help keep it
keeping on, if you're like me (DIY = fail) and it's something you can't/don't/choose not
to do.

Check in over at vintage (one of the more friendly/helpful/camaraderie inclined boards
here at AA) for tips, help, info, support, etc.

If you've found what you like and prefer it's good to invest your time and
interest and $ in that rather than pursue something that may not be as
satisfying - even with the applied and oblique pressures in this hobby to
keep up with the new, have the latest, be part of the trend.

Staying musical is a good thing.

BTW, what kind of system are you using?



"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure




 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 24, 2016 at 15:48:11
kenzo
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 you have to take the best of both worlds.

My sources are digital files,CDs. or SACDs, to musical fidelity streamer/dac, but from there into run a Transcendent Grounded Grid tube preamp, either a musical fidelity A1 ss amp, or a Transcendent sound tube OTL amp, and Refererence 3A DeCapoI speakers.

mostly blissful!

 

RE: Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:04:26
AbeCollins
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 I don't believe that for a minute, because I thoroughly enjoy my digital setup as much as I do my all analog vinyl system. If the harmonics are there, my digital system with reproduce them.

However, if you want to embellish with a more harmonically rich sound certain tube preamps and tube power amps downstream will get you there.



 

RE: Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:18:27
SoundMann
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 Proper harmonics, from digital? I have yet to here it!

 

RE: Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:28:23
AbeCollins
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Proper harmonics, from digital? I have yet to here it!

Proper digital? Perhaps you have yet to own it. ;-)



 

RE: Maybe you're old..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:39:13
SoundMann
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 Actually, I have owned the very finest playback gear available!

 

Would you care to provide some examples? , posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:40:59
E-Stat
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 While I'm an old boomer, I'm not in your court.

 

RE: Would you care to provide some examples? , posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:43:53
SoundMann
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 Examples of what?

 

RE: Would you care to provide some examples? , posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:56:59
SoundMann
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 Is my Accuphase DP70v (the most natural sounding player) good enough for you?

 

Examples of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 16:58:15
E-Stat
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 Am I alone in finding the majority of modern equipment amusical?

"Modern equipment" presumably vs vintage equipment.

Maybe you're not listening to what's available. What's your point of reference as to "modern equipment"?

 

RE: Examples of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:02:21
SoundMann
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 Considering that I have heard nearly every component made in the last 50 years, I can't say that I have missed much.

 

RE: Examples of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:04:07
SoundMann
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 Until a year ago, I was constantly auditioning gear at all price-points the world over!

 

RE: Examples of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:06:29
SoundMann
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 Even the Japanese have sold out to this deluded western pursuit of "modern sound"!

 

RE: Examples of..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:25:41
SoundMann
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 If anyone else has anything to say, please chime in.

 

That's about as nebulous as you can get!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:40:17
E-Stat
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 What's to agree or disagree with an utter lack of any information?

Yes

No

What are we talking about anyway?

 

So..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:42:49
E-Stat
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 tell us about your perspective of the "very best playback gear available"

Somehow, I think your posts will continue to be fact free. :)

 

Actually , posted on April 24, 2016 at 17:52:52
E-Stat
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 No. Heard better at Sea Cliff years back.

So what exactly is this "non-modern" system that is so wonderful?

I assume you are able to describe such. Do enlighten us all!

 

RE: So..., posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:14:07
SoundMann
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 "tell us about your perspective of the "very best playback gear available"

A system composed of Reference-class Accuphase, Avalon and Micro Seiki components perhaps?

 

RE: Actually , posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:22:24
SoundMann
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 "So what exactly is this "non-modern" system that is so wonderful?"

A masterfully rebuilt and modified Citation 1 preamp, feeding a set of full-range, vintage triode tube amps, driving a set of Shindo Latours (Oop's), fed by a rebuilt Garrard 301 with proper plinth and stand, plus a select Ortofon SPU!

 

RE: Actually , posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:23:25
SoundMann
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 These are just a few examples!

 

Not a big fan of those products, but, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:25:11
E-Stat
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 do tell us the "non-modern" gear that is superior.

Please put your comments into perspective.

 

RE: Not a big fan of those products, but, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:27:04
SoundMann
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 That is enough for now!

 

Troll -nt, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:31:17
E-Stat
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 .

 

RE: Troll -nt, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:32:07
SoundMann
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 You are trolling me!

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:33:20
SoundMann
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 My current system would blow your mind!

 

RE: Help!, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:52:28
Tweaker456
 Oh, Glad you explained it. I thought you were talking about horribly murky compressed capacitors and dull carbon resistors. Tweaker

 

By all means, posted on April 24, 2016 at 18:53:27
E-Stat
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 let us know when you're ready to supply something beyond vapor.

 

Not that you'll actually tell us, posted on April 24, 2016 at 19:03:50
E-Stat
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 but WTF is it?

Is there any substance to any of your posts? So far, zero.

Post a pic and we'll be the judge. :)

 

RE: Would you care to provide some examples? , posted on April 24, 2016 at 19:09:12
Tweaker456
 Did you modify your Accuphase to have murky Black Cat caps and dull compressed sounding carbon comp resistors dampened with some mold? Maybe you weren't listening to recordings of records so you could get the satisfaction of clicks and pops, my fav. I also love tape hiss.

 

Why didn't you begin with that point of reference?, posted on April 24, 2016 at 19:36:50
E-Stat
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 Nice, but I think you'll find those who prefer otherwise.

As for "vintage triode tube amps", that doesn't say much at all. I think you'll find there are hundreds available today.

driving a set of Shindo Latours (Oop's),

Two way horns based upon an Altec design?

fed by a rebuilt Garrard 301 with proper plinth and stand, plus a select Ortofon SPU!

Ever heard a Clearaudio Statement with Goldfinger cartridge?

 

RE: Can't say I agree, posted on April 24, 2016 at 20:20:22
Todd Krieger
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 With the over-processing and excessive "enhancements" engulfing modern popular music/recordings like a stage 4 cancer, it would be difficult to determine whether the music/recordings or the equipment is the root cause of the dissatisfaction in recently produced audio gear.

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 24, 2016 at 20:34:39
Todd Krieger
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 "Am I alone in finding the majority of modern equipment amusical?"

Probably not, if the equipment isn't tubes and/or analog.....

It also depends if you are listening to a lot of recently-produced music, which could lead to such perception. This is maybe the reason why recent gear often gets shortchanged. (I could be guilty of this.) It's also the reason why it's difficult to get younger people interested in high-end audio.

"Is the pursuit of imaging and resolve really more important?"

Once again, depends on the playback medium and recording.... I cannot tolerate an Auto-Tuned singer on a resolving system..... (It's a lot more tolerable through a cheap radio.) But can be heaven with Ella Fitzgerald on vinyl.....

"Why can I only find true contentment in the best of the old?"

I tend to be old school personally.... (I wouldn't get caught dead with a computer tied to one of my two big systems.) But some of the gear I own is relatively recent. I personally think loudspeakers are the one component which the best stuff out there is the recent stuff.

You have to pick and choose. The music you listen to will be the biggest influence.

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 24, 2016 at 20:53:09
hahax@verizon.net
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 Sounds like you prefer the colorations of old gear to the colorations onew stuff. I'd argue we actually have made progress but that doesn
't mean we don't still have lots of colorations that many find objectionable.

 

RE: Actually , yes and No , posted on April 25, 2016 at 01:35:22
A.Wayne
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 Best to define vintage , 50,'s,60's ,70's,80's which era and what components ?

I'm sure vintage state of the art Audio will sound good today as it did in the late 60's , better in everyway than modern day stuff , i'm doubtful of that , but yes i can see one being able to put together a vintage system to rival modern day Audio ..



 

RE: Actually , posted on April 25, 2016 at 01:54:13
morricab
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 And you find modern SET and/or push/pull triode amps too revealing and what? Not warm enough (sonically speaking). Personally, I have found the modern SETs to outperform most of the vintage tube gear I have heard by being revealing and precise as well as having a natural tonality. Best of both worlds IMO.

I have heard rebuilt Garrards a number of times and never found them ultimately to be my thing...I much prefer my 1980s Yamaha GT-2000 ;-). I was never a fan of the Ortofon SPU sound...

What is the driver in the Shindo Latour? Is it an Altec coaxial driver?

I find it interesting you mention a Citation 1 preamp but that it has been rebuilt and modified. Rebuilt with vinatge or modern parts? Modified how and if it was so much better than modern gear why was it modified at all?

Finally, you mention an Accuphase cd player but I do not know from what year it comes? Is it from the late 80s, the 90s, early 2000s? You imply it is vintage but if it is not 80s or early 90s then I would still call it a modern player.

What I can agree with you on is that the older cd players/DACs that used good multibit chips like the Burr Brown PCM63 or the ambitious UltraAnalog D20400, were more musical, but still very resolving, compared to "modern" DAC chipsets that were driven more by cost cutting than any real sonic advantage. I use "vintage" DAC chipsets in my digital to this day.

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 25, 2016 at 02:13:55
morricab
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 I think modern tube amps are quite a bit superior to the vintage ones I have heard. I don't necessarily think speakers have truly improved all that much.

After hearing some vintage Western Electric movie speakers and some modern Western Electric replicas, I can say that there is some powerful and convincing sound to be had from these old designs that make most modern speakers, even big ones, sound rather emaciated...so I can relate to a lot of what this guy is saying...but not completely.

I think if you take the best from the past and mix with the best bits from today then you can find a truly convincing way to go.

 

RE: Took me a while to think about this, better sound or were we younger, posted on April 25, 2016 at 02:24:54
morricab
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 Well, don't want to judge, but you have chosen rather soulless components upon which to pin your audio hopes on.

I take great pleasure in listening to my system, which while not totally vintage, has vintage elements where I think they will enhance the overall experience of music listening.

I also have great memories of listening to music in high school in my friend's basements, shooting pool and jamming away to the great classic rock of the period on vinyl of course but I know now that it was the total experience and not just the sound quality that is inextricably intertwined in those memories.

 

RE: You seem to be saying that "imaging and resolve" are being pursued at the expense of..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 02:25:03
Kirk57
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 I think what people are asking is you specify what manufacturers/models you find to be lacking. 'Modern' is painting with far to wide a brush to be meaningful.

'Old is Better' means nothing to me.
'The Gigantor 300x, driven by the Zorbitron II with [insert source here]
sounds sterile compared to [detailed list of vintage gear here] ' is something people would understand.

 

RE: You seem to be saying that "imaging and resolve" are being pursued at the expense of..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 02:30:10
morricab
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 Well, it is easy to get SOTA imaging and soundstaging from a vintage vinyl system. I have a Yamaha GT-2000 that is from the early 80s and was one of the great direct drive TTs of that era. I use a modern Audio Technica AT150MLX cartridge and feed that into a superb Silvaweld, all tube phonostage. That last bit, the phonostage, is critical BTW.

The pursuit of better imaging and soundstaging has been a goal of hifi for a long time and rightly so or there wouldn't be a need for stereo at all! However, I do agree that most modern systems throw out the baby with the bath water! That doesn't mean there aren't modern ones that can't do what you want on top of the high resolution etc.

Your examples above of an Accuphase, Avalon type system would give me the shivers and I would never call that SOTA from a music listening POV.

 

RE: So..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 02:31:51
morricab
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 Accuphase and Avalon together was likely part of a problem, IMO. Avalon is the very epitome of a "modern" sounding speaker...one I also do not like. Ceramic drivers have never sounded natural or right to me.

 

A camel has as much chance of passing through the eye of a needle as a rich man has of entering audio nirvana., posted on April 25, 2016 at 03:52:00
geoffkait
 Nt

 

Obviously, the "rich man" is not too skinny..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 04:17:23
genungo
 ... but there must be more to this. Please further the definition.

 

Agreed. He wasted several posts..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 06:28:05
mlsstl
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 ... to say absolutely nothing.

 

You Seem Pretty Pleased With Yourself..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 06:35:12
Doug Schroeder
 regarding your adaptation of the Biblical verse, because you seem to trot it out with regularity.

Frankly, your comment isn't that witty, or true. Plenty are the enthusiasts in this hobby who found out that one must spend more to obtain a more beautiful experience - the opposite of your assertion. :)

As for discontentment, I see more grousing by people toward the lower end, cheaper end, than by those with the means. The cheapskates simply will not enter the realm of the High End; they cannot, as their systems are incapable. They can delude themselves all they want, but they don't have the best experience. Perhaps they do not care, but it is laughable the way they insist they have it.

 

Maybe...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:10:07
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 But did you ever stop to consider that in may cases he who spends six figures (or even five) on the bright and shiny may be reluctant to admit that his brand new system kinda isn't doing for him what he thought it would?

Not saying that only cheap old stuff is capable of audio excellence in the "trans-formative" sense. In fact I agree with you that high end gear is more likely to bring an enthusiast to "that state" than 30 year old components from the used market.

But I think we should all agree that both expensive and cheap can get one there... the cost is either monetary or effort. One isn't better than the other except in the eye of each enthusiast.

 

At least in the case of Classical music ..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:22:21
Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9853
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
  Since: March 12, 2004
 ... Recordings made in the last 10-15 years are more likely to be better than anything made earlier. Perhaps Auto-Tune or other processing technologies are used less in case of classical.

Almost all my listening is to lossless computer files, (FLAC or ALAC and a few Monkey), via Foobar2000 using WASAPI. I usually use the Electri-Q equalizer which is highly, (to my ear, perfectly), transparent.

I started my hifi hobby with home-built Dynaco solid state components. Maybe my feelings would be different had I choose Dynaco's tube components instead.

Speaking of old solid state, the Phase Linear 400 I used for over 20 years was possibly the most unmusical piece of equipment I ever owned.


Dmitri Shostakovich

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:23:15
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 Too many questions, not enough time or interest!

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:30:29
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 My current system is at the opposite end of the spectrum, but you will most likely will find fault with it too!

 

How about this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:50:09
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Can you give just one example of a modern component you auditioned that you feel has "sold out" or whatever to the modern sound.

A specific component. With brand and model.

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:50:24
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 Sony GX900ES amp, Micro Seiki BL-51 turntable (Grace 707, Signet TK7e), modified Infinity RS5000 speakers, and modified Grado SR125i headphones!

These components give me an honest and fairly musical result.

But, I will most likely gain greater musicality with a Grado wood body cartridge!

 

RE: How about this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:51:58
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 I would rather not mention anything specifically!

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 25, 2016 at 07:57:11
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 I do have an Accuphase DP70v as well, but it is sitting in its box at the moment.

 

RE: How about this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 08:14:10
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Well then I hope you can understand that few are going to take your statement seriously and view it as more of an attempt to troll.

Without specifics, you're sounding like a grumpy old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

Give us some examples of equipment you enjoy and the modern equivalent you think is lesser for the pursuit of "modern sounds" and maybe then we will be able to have an intelligent conversation about it.

 

RE: How about this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 09:08:29
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 First of all, you misunderstood my post concerning the Accuphase/Avalon setup. It is the most true-to-life system that money can buy, and as such, I enjoyed it immensely!

But this is $300,000 dollars worth of gear we are talking about!

 

RE: How about this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 09:33:42
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 Again, I did not come here to bad-mouth any particular make or model of gear, so that's out!

 

Huh?!, posted on April 25, 2016 at 09:59:27
geoffkait
 You wrote,

"The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile."

Exactly! See, we actually agree.

Tootles

 

RE: You Seem Pretty Pleased With Yourself..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 10:06:23
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 Old school or new ...?

 

"Perhaps Auto-Tune or other processing technologies are used less in case of classical", posted on April 25, 2016 at 11:08:43
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26434
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since: February 6, 2012
 Yeah - like, not at all! ;-)

Actually, I'm speaking only of AutoTune. Certainly, I've never heard a classical recording which has used Auto-Tune.

 

RE: "Perhaps Auto-Tune or other processing technologies are used less in case of classical", posted on April 25, 2016 at 11:19:57
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 Just another digital conundrum.

 

Hmmmmm OK then this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 11:33:19
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 How about what they are doing differently in design?

OR

Who is doing it right, in your opinion? Is anyone?

I looked at your past posts and I don't think you're trolling. I DO think you're being a bit vague and that you're thinking manufacturers are a bit more sensitive than they are.

Would that help?

 

RE: Hmmmmm OK then this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 12:20:38
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 I guess you missed this one.

"No, it is really a question of musicality, or lack thereof! The majority of modern components are full of fatigue, and devoid of harmonic content.

Soundstage, imaging, details up the wazoo! but little to no musicality!"

 

RE: Hmmmmm OK then this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 12:22:10
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 And again, the majority to different degrees, not all!

 

RE: Hmmmmm OK then this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 13:42:35
MannyE
Audiophile

Posts: 2088
Location: Miami Beach
Joined: March 4, 2001
 Yes I had missed that one.

I'm going to have to disagree on some of those points. I find lots of modern equipment as good or better than classics stuff with the exception of the very advanced turntables/cartridges from the late 80's which are still superior to many things available today.

 

RE: Hmmmmm OK then this...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 14:24:02
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 To each his own!

 

Nothing wrong with charm, but....., posted on April 25, 2016 at 14:34:04
Bob Neill
Dealer

Posts: 2953
Location: New England
Joined: October 1, 1999
 My guess, without reading dutifully through this thread to avoid repeating something someone else has said better, is that you're not really looking for the real sound of instruments and voices but something that pleases or charms you.. If that is your conscious or unconscious goal, all bets are off. The best new gear out there these days does a far better job of retrieving and reproducing the sound of music than any or most of the old stuff, much of which I owned. It is of course possible that you simply listening to the wrong new gear, of course.

 

RE: Old-school, and the quest for musical nirvana, posted on April 25, 2016 at 15:25:50
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 These components give me an honest and fairly musical result.

Certainly should. Nice system!

 

Strange guy, posted on April 25, 2016 at 15:36:14
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 our examples above of an Accuphase, Avalon type system would give me the shivers and I would never call that SOTA from a music listening POV.

He says that is the best sounding system available today at any price (according to exactly whom?) and then complains about it.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't choose those components either. :)

 

RE: Maybe...., posted on April 25, 2016 at 17:26:45
Tweaker456
 I would like to amend your " The cost is either money or effort" statement a bit. I have heard very expensive systems at shows that I couldn't stay in the room with. Lots of effort with modest priced stuff can yield excellent sound. I like to view it as a combination of both. Money, effort in combo, used wisely. The worshiping of vintage gear is nonsense. At no other time has there been the kind of products and information available to people interested in sound quality. As to Geoff's comment, I assure you that if I was rich I'd have a much better sound system. And a much better place to put it.

 

RE: Strange guy, posted on April 25, 2016 at 18:11:03
SoundMann
Audiophile

Posts: 588
Joined: October 21, 2015
 E-stat, you are nothing but a troll!

 

So sayeth the clueless guy with 63 posts..., posted on April 25, 2016 at 18:27:04
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37584
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Right-ty-O!

Welcome to the Asylum. I think you'll find you will be better received when your posts aren't of what Manny succinctly identified as:

"Without specifics, you're sounding like a grumpy old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn. "

Does anyone actually believe you've owned ALL the state-of-the-art gear available today? You must be joking. :)

 

+1, with caveats, posted on April 25, 2016 at 18:36:30
genungo
 The classical catalog is probably the best place to go for *natural* sounding recordings. Un-amplified acoustic instruments provide us with hard references for what "good sound" actually is.

Fantastic and *unnatural* sounds are often the mainstay of the pop catalog and are often difficult or impossible to judge by naturalistic standards as they sometimes contain mere traces of naturalistic tone, timbre, and texture (just enough to be recognizable as music made by humans in an earthly atmosphere, at times), and as they become a sort of reference unto themselves, sound-wise. The hifi enthusiast is left guessing about exactly what it is that constitutes "hifi" with some types of pop recordings. Reproducing pop music engages the imagination and the resources of the hifi enthusiast differently than naturalistic classical recordings do.

I find that both types of recordings can be equally *good*, as recordings go, but in different ways and for different reasons.

 

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