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PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650

98.172.81.226
Posted on February 4, 2016 at 11:17:33
awinn.sd
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2016
 Hi all, and thanks in advance. I'm about to begin in starting up my stereo system. I'm a young civil engineer, so I'm not rolling in a lot of dough yet. I prefer to buy American made. I'm planing on getting the U-Turn Orbit Plus. But I'm debating on what Amp to get. I have someone offering me a mint Harman Kardon pm650 for $350, but I have also been recommend to get a brand new PS Audio Sprout, for about $460.
The Harmon pm650 lacks bluetooth, but can handle 2 pairs of speakers. But I'm not sure if I can hook a subwoofer to it, if someone could clarify this I would appreciate it. Also, I kinda prefer the aesthetics to the pm650.

The Sprout is new and highly praised for the price, and has bluetooth, which would be nice for pandora purposes.

I hoping to buy very soon, so any input would be much appreciated.
Again, Thank you.

P.S. I should add that I'm starting out with a pair of Bose mini doubles and sub, that I got for free in mint condition.

 

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RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650, posted on February 4, 2016 at 12:19:29
geezerrocket



Hello and welcome!

I for one am happy to have new blood joining this hobby. I'm guessing that your not yet suffering from digestive issues, male pattern baldness, prostate issues, arthritis, and you still have a fairly flat stomach. All of this makes you an anomaly here on Audio Asylum.

OK, all kidding aside, let's start with Bluetooth, or the lack of it. The HK does not offer a integrated Bluetooth solution but, this can be remedied by simply adding a Bluetooth receiver which can be plugged into one of the line level inputs on the HK. These can be had for less than $50 on Amazon.

The Sprout has been reported to have some frequency response anomalies, mainly a significant boost in the lower midrange. This is presumably for increased "perceived" bass response for budget type speakers that will more than likely be mated to it. Let's face it, the Sprout will not likely have full range floor standers ($$$$$$) hooked up to it. Since you will be running a subwoofer, and thus would not require additional low frequency response boost, I would consider this a detriment.

Speaking of subwoofers; Most all powered subs (built in amplifier) allow for LFE (low level signal input via rca from the preamp out), and high level inputs (signal taken from the speaker jacks).

I would guess that most including myself prefer the high level method for connecting a sub. I however, choose to run the speakers full range, that is connecting the sub via speaker output and thus not using the crappy crossover found in most subs. To do this simply run a pair of speaker cables directly to the sub, then run a additional pair of cables from the amp to your speakers. Next; While you are in your desired listening position, have a friend gradually turn up the frequency level on the sub until the bass begins to get thick and congested, then back it down just a bit.

If it's not clear yet, I vote for the HK vs the Sprout BUT........The HK is on the older side and has old electrolytic capacitors that are a ticking time bomb. If it were me, I would consider something like the Cambridge Audio 651 currently on the "Trader Asylum" at this time for $350.
I have no affiliation with the seller.

Take your time and gather as much information as you can before laying your cash down.

Also; the guys over at the "vinyl" Asylum will be invaluable to you if you need help with your turntable setup.

Good luck!

 

RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650, posted on February 4, 2016 at 12:37:34
awinn.sd
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2016
 So... I'm waiting for my tax return (already filed) to purchase this all. I can get the U-turn Orbit w/ or w/out an internal preamp. But I was under the inpression that with the pm650 integrated amp, or the sprout, that I wouldn't need a preamp?

 

I would allocate my funds quite differently......., posted on February 4, 2016 at 13:26:45
viridian
 source first. I think I would pony up $400.00 for a Project Debut Carbon turntable, and the receiver linked below which I have recommended to several friends and they like them.

Later add some nice Music Hall Marimba speakers, on sale for $179.00 per pair at Hi Fi Heaven.

Whatever your decision, welcome to the hobby and enjoy your new rig.

 

RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650, posted on February 4, 2016 at 13:32:23
geezerrocket



Above: Modern NAD integrated amp




Above: A 1959 Sherwood S5000 vacuum tube integrated amp rebuilt by the master Michael Samra. It's a killer!


Ok.

Let's begin with the basics.

A integrated amp is a amplifier and preamplifier in one chassis. A power amp is a stand alone amplifier, and a preamp is a stand alone preamplifier. A receiver is a amp, preamp, and tuner (radio) in one chassis, but that's another story.

The audio signal starts at the source (CD player, tuntable, tablet, phone etc). It next goes to the preamp or preamp section of your integrated amp. It then goes to the power amp or amplifier section of your integrated amp, and from there on to the speakers.

Now; The preamp referenced in the Orbit turntable is a "phono preamp". A phono preamp is a device that through a thing called RIAA equalization feeds a signal to the preamp, which in turn amplifies that signal and sends it to the power amp and on to the speakers.

If the integrated amp(s) you are considering already have a built in phono preamp, then you do not need the phono preamp available with the Orbit turntable.

Most older integrated amps and receivers had a built in phono preamp as LP's were the standard for home Hi-fi at that time.
A lot of modern integrated preamps did not include a built in phono preamp because the CD had taken over as the main source for home Hi-fi.

You are doing the RIGHT thing by asking these questions now instead of going through buyers remorse later.

There are many very good buys available with regard to integrated amps. Some have built in phono, and some do not. It is easy to add a good sounding phono preamp that you can connect to a "aux" input on your integrated amp if it does not already have one built in.

If it were me, I would go the used route especially if you intend to upgrade and begin to get interested in this stupid hobby.

Others will chime in, but I would look at offerings from NAD, Marantz, Harman Kardon, Adcom etc......

For more info, Google phono preamp and there you will get a detailed explanation of what a phono pre does.

Keep those questions coming and you won't make the mistakes that many of us did way back when.







 

Nice. I like it., posted on February 4, 2016 at 14:29:04
Todd A.
 You treated a newcomer with respect, and offered some good information without being condescending. Thank you.

I suspect you're right with your description of most of us in this hobby, though. Sigh.

 

Another excellent solid state amp I just love and that is the Luxman L2 and L3, posted on February 4, 2016 at 15:47:52
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 When you look at the amps,they don't look like they don't look like they would set up a big masterful sound with tube attributes but one in proper tune is amazing.If anyone has an L2 or L3,they can probably tell you more but I really like these integrateds.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Nice. I like it., posted on February 4, 2016 at 16:09:30
geezerrocket
 No worries Todd, I get just as much satisfaction by helping a up and comer as I do getting new audio toys for myself. I suspect most here do as well.

I just hate it when a newbie reaches out and is met with condescension from the minority.

As for the general physical condition of the rank and file here; What are we to do when our prime is in the rear view mirror and getting smaller and smaller? Shrug our shoulders and turn it up!








 

RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650, posted on February 4, 2016 at 16:18:08
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4391
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 Welcome to the asylum...
I support all that Geezer has said,
and also I would put in a plug for used equipment - better bang for the buck- and less $$ up-front.
I have had great luck on the AA Trader - every deal so far has been GREAT!

One other note- if you are not listening to lots of Radio AM, or FM, go for the Integrated Amp -
You can always add a tuner if you need, or connect the computer, or some streaming device...

Good luck, and keep asking questions

Happy Listening

 

RE: Nice. I like it., posted on February 4, 2016 at 18:46:00
Todd A.
 You're right, of course. I really shouldn't allow a few bad apples to color my perception. Thank you once again.

 

RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650, posted on February 4, 2016 at 19:23:27
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8385
Joined: June 3, 2006
Geez, you left out COPD!

Regards
Bill

 

RE: PS Audio Sprout vs classic Harman Kardon pm650, posted on February 5, 2016 at 06:54:24
geezerrocket
 Forgot that one along with gout, kidney stones, sciatica, bunions, macular degeneration, and of course dinky do.

Dinky Do: Belly sticks out further than dinky do.




 

Does Pandora and good sound,........, posted on February 5, 2016 at 07:08:26
Awe-d-o-file
Dealer

Posts: 21037
Location: 50 miles west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 Happen? I thought it was a less than in terms of bandwidth/sampling rate. Bluetooth isn't required to get things from the net to an audio system. Cabling can be used. You may have to prioritize between convenience and sound quality as often the prior can compromise the latter.

As to the HK its decent mid fi from the 80's so likely will need servicing in the near future. I also wouldn't pay near that much for it unless it was serviced and recapped in the last couple of years.

ET
ET

"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

 

I guess now I know why, posted on February 7, 2016 at 21:35:58
jeromelang
Audiophile

Posts: 2303
Joined: February 2, 2001
 ....I found the sprout sounding muddy and muffled against similarly priced amps

 

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