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Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?

100.8.25.131
Posted on November 24, 2015 at 08:47:27
Rick W
 Off the bat -- I'm from the short ic, long spkr. cable school.

I recently moved and the best setup option requires shorter speaker cables (though still long) than at my previous apt. I'd like to use different lengths for left (16.5 ft.) and right (10.5 ft.). Think it'd make a noticeable difference in timing?

The only cable I'm aware of that claims different lengths for R/L are fine is OCOS, which I don't even know still is available. At any rate I prefer using the same spkr. wire I've used for decades, which is Discovery.

Views/experience?

 

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RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 08:51:58
oldmkvi
Audiophile

Posts: 10581
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I have been using one 15', one 30' cable without audible problems.
Maybe 2 30' would be better, but couldn't afford that.
This is with both SS and Tube front ends.
I wish they weren't so long, but it's unavoidable here.
I don't hear anything wrong, tho.

 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 09:24:28
Inmate51
 You worry too much. But, that's not unusual in audiophile land.

In fact, if your existing cables aren't excessively too long, just loosely coil up the unneeded portion and tuck it under your rack or wherever - you might want/need the length sometime down the road.

:)

 

Could be an amp or speaker-dependent thing..., posted on November 24, 2015 at 09:38:20
genungo
 I've had issues with unequal lengths of speaker wire on only one occasion in the past. Perhaps it was an issue with the amp, perhaps it was an issue with the speakers? All I can say is that things sounded imbalanced and weird until I replaced those two unequal lengths of 14 gauge speaker wire with two equal lengths.

OTOH, I'm currently listening to a pair of speakers hooked up with two unequal lengths of wire and I cannot perceive any sort of weirdness or imbalance in the sound.

Try it and listen for yourself. It might be a problem, or it might not.

 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 10:26:30
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 If the speaker hooked up to the shorter length is louder,just use the balance control on your preamp to correct it!

 

Si! - that's good advice - don't shorten the cable you have..., posted on November 24, 2015 at 10:28:34
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31872
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 Besides at those lengths (minor) differences in length isn't going cause any discernible
problems, especially audible ones.

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 10:33:01
SgreenP@MSN.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3537
Joined: April 23, 2007
 Not for me...

 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 10:58:09
mraudio
Audiophile

Posts: 459
Location: Northern Colorado
Joined: November 4, 2006
 "just loosely coil up the unneeded portion"

Never coil cable. It's causes inductance.

 

I avoid different lengths., posted on November 24, 2015 at 11:21:10
grantv
Manufacturer

Posts: 7724
Location: B.C.
Joined: January 15, 2002
 Timing, eh, maybe not a long enough stretch to affect that. But depending on the wire you also have amp load, etc. I always run equal lengths...

 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 24, 2015 at 12:11:50
jec01
Audiophile

Posts: 1462
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Joined: September 22, 2004
 I used to have a setup like that, using Mapleshade Golden Parallel cables. One wire was about 25' long and the other about 30'. Mapleshade advised me that they recommend that unequal lengths were ok as long as the longer cable was no more than 150% of the length of the shorter. I certainly heard no problem with 25' vs. 30'. Full disclosure: that wasn't the most ruthlessly revealing system (Acurus preamp, NAD amp, Musical Fidelity V-DAC, Joseph RM22si speakers).

Happy listening,

Jim

"The passage of my life is measured out in shirts."
- Brian Eno

 

Not gonna happen. (NT), posted on November 24, 2015 at 12:24:54
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

 

Perfectly fine, posted on November 24, 2015 at 12:31:07
PabloP
Audiophile

Posts: 14875
Location: So. Cal
Joined: January 23, 2001
 Nordost once talked about a 10 to 1 ratio making no difference with their cables. Ray Kimber drew some equations for me one time in LA that convinced me there should be no problem with less than extreme differences. And that all has to do with load, not timing. The signal travels at something approaching the speed of light. Don't worry about it. But don't destroy an existing pair of matched cables that you may be able to resell some day. There is no market for mismatched cables.

 

RE: Not gonna happen. (NT), posted on November 24, 2015 at 12:36:32
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 And what makes you so sure?

 

RE: Not gonna happen. (NT), posted on November 24, 2015 at 13:33:16
Inmate51
 I'll take "knowledge" for five hundred, Alex.

:)

 

Inductance, posted on November 24, 2015 at 14:03:35
Inmate51
 I KNEW someone would bring that up! :)

Yeah, a closely/tightly coiled cable will result in some inductance, 'cause it'll be an inductor.

But a few rounds of loosely coiled speaker cable is a non-issue. As an experiment, since you're into this stuff, take 30 feet of 12 gauge twisted pair laid out more-or-less straight, and measure the inductance. Then, take the same 30 foot cable and loosely coil it up into, say, twelve inch loops suitable for stuffing under your furniture, leaving the necessary amount at each end for running to the speaker and to the amp. Measure the inductance again. Get back to me with the results. Alternatively, cite a source where this has been shown to be a problem in the OP's scenario.

:)

 

RE: Could be an amp or speaker-dependent thing..., posted on November 24, 2015 at 14:51:43
Inmate51
 "things sounded imbalanced and weird"

Yes, I completely understand - "weird" is a well-defined technical audio term. Some people, though, are clueless about its meaning, but, that's to be expected among non-professionals. ;)

Did you consider that the problem was a poor wire/terminal connection which could have been rectified by simply releasing the cable leads and re-inserting them? Faulty/poor connections are a common problem.

:)

 

Do the math (nt), posted on November 24, 2015 at 14:53:14
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:01:58
Inmate51
 THAT was a pretty useless post.

Although, I'm sure it helped to keep your ego inflated.

 

You're right. Non-issue IME., posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:17:09
Rick W
 Used to do exactly what you mentioned in order to use equal length R/L spkr. wire when - due to running the right channel wire underneath/around a big bay window - I needed much less cable for the left channel. Coiled it up outta the way behind a large cabinet. No audible difference.

Since I don't know how long we'll be in our current apt. I don't wanna cut my old long set of spkr. cables. I'll get an additional shorter pair - hence my OP.

 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:30:22
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 Take a look!

 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:32:41
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 My ego has nothing to do with it. Simple math shows that the increased resistance is trivial.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:40:49
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 More!

 

RE: Perfectly fine, posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:50:38
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
 Yes. Resale value is the primary consideration.

 

Yes, there's a difference with different length speaker cables, posted on November 24, 2015 at 15:58:05
PAR
 It's this; it is a lot harder to sell on a pair of loudspeaker cables where one is of a different length to the other.

For audio purposes, no worries. However some Naim amps use the inductance of the cable to provide stability to the amp and a very short length may not provide enough. I believe that they recommend a minimum length of 3M when using their own cable.

 

I've done that, posted on November 24, 2015 at 18:01:23
driver
Audiophile

Posts: 2116
Location: Henrico, VA
Joined: May 8, 2004
 Years ago had a set made up with the left cable 26' and the right 18' and didn't have any issues. Ran that set-up for almost 10 years.

When I make my own cables I do custom lengths but when I buy name brand stuff, I use one length for resale purposes. When I sold the 26'/18' cable I had the factory re-terminate and had 2 sets that were equal length.

 

That's what I'd do -- reterminate tro make 'em even if I later sell the pair. Thanks, everybody. nt, posted on November 24, 2015 at 18:52:13
Rick W
 nt

 

"a difference in length of not more than 40% worked pretty well..., posted on November 24, 2015 at 23:44:55
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31872
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 So a 5 and a 3 metre pair, a 7 and a 4 metre pair and a 10 and a 6 metre pair were good."

You have me confused.

Which side of the discussion are your links supporting?

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: "a difference in length of not more than 40% worked pretty well..., posted on November 25, 2015 at 01:45:07
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2444
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 This part.The length of cable might be a problem with certain amps.

There is an obvious logic in keeping the lengths of speaker cable used in the hi-fi system the same. The vast majority of pairs of speaker cable that we supply are of equal lengths. Increasingly though, people are using odd lengths of speaker cable in a system. This is something that we researched quite carefully. What we found was that a difference in length of not more than 40% worked pretty well. So a 5 and a 3 metre pair, a 7 and a 4 metre pair and a 10 and a 6 metre pair were good. There are a couple of important points here though. Whilst the vast majority of amplifiers will be completely happy with a different length pair of speaker cables, some amplifiers use the speaker cable as part of the circuitry and in this case, cable lengths should be kept the same. Before using different lengths of speaker cable, it is important to check with the manufacturer of the amplifier.

Contact The Cable Doctor for further advice and recommendations for your particular system.

Find more advice and information about speaker cables in our speaker cable guide.

 

RE: "Weird", posted on November 25, 2015 at 10:58:03
genungo
 Definitely not a "well-defined technical audio term". And yet, I know "weird" when I hear it - just as I know "porn" when I see it.

But it's too late to go back and troubleshoot the heck out of this happening, now. All I'm saying is that it *happened*...

 

Yes, it MIGHT be, but the majority of what they wrote suggests otherwise...N/T, posted on November 25, 2015 at 11:27:17
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31872
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 AA
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 26, 2015 at 16:31:05
Lakeshore Larry
Audiophile

Posts: 215
Joined: July 30, 2014
 OK, I did the math....

Assuming 5mm diameter conductors spaced 8mm apart and a dielectric constant of 1:

Time Delay: 1.016nS /foot = 0.007315 deg / foot @ 20kHz
Resistance: 3.028 mOhms / foot
Inductance: 128nH / foot = 16.085 mOhms / foot @ 20kHz
Capacitance: 8pFd / foot = 1.005 uSiemens / foot @ 20kHz

 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 27, 2015 at 07:20:28
Inmate51
 http://www.chord.co.uk/help-and-information/speaker-cable-guide/why-materials-matter/

Hogwash.

:)

 

RE: Do the math (nt), posted on November 27, 2015 at 08:06:03
neolith
Audiophile

Posts: 4842
Location: Virginia
Joined: February 21, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 2, 2004
 Good job. So let's assume a 4 ohm speaker with a 1st order low pass filter (a coil in series with the woofer which would typically have a DCR of 0.3 ohms), the impedance with a 10' cable would be 4.306ohms and with a 25' cable 4.318 ohms and the resulting loss from the extra 15' is 20xlog (4.306/4.318) or -0.02 db.
Some things in audio are hard to define and explain (why some cables sound different for example) and other things are just the result of simple classical physics.



"Our head is round in order to allow our thoughts to change direction." Francis Picabia

 

RE: "Weird", posted on November 30, 2015 at 08:06:10
Inmate51
 You said it might have been the amp or it might have been the speaker not liking the different lengths. I'll suggest that it also might have been a poor connection. This is often the case. I can't say if hand-made, whether by the user or the manufacturer, or if pre-fab connectors are more prone to faults. These faults can be due to an improperly sized pin or sleeve, poor soldering, or even corroded metal. I have examples of all three: pre-fab Hosa RCA to 1/4", where one of the RCA connectors is intermittent; pre-fab RCA where the outer ring of a female connector doesn't fit snugly onto the male connector (and can't be squeezed due to its construction style); and an ITT Cannon connector where the metal has oxidized (it'll be replaced with a Switchcraft connector).

So, when we attribute a "fix" to something - in your case, speaker cables of unequal length - we may have unknowingly fixed the REAL problem, which isn't the "problem" we thought we were fixing.

:)

 

Food..., posted on November 30, 2015 at 12:47:23
genungo
 ... for thought, nothing more.

Thanks for adding to the list of possibilities.

 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 30, 2015 at 17:48:58
russ69
Audiophile

Posts: 951
Joined: December 13, 2009
 Different lengths are OK on paper but not OK for my sense of symmetry...

 

RE: Speaker cables -- different lengths for L/R ok?, posted on November 30, 2015 at 17:57:07
Lakeshore Larry
Audiophile

Posts: 215
Joined: July 30, 2014
 You realize of course, that no matter how carefully you measure and cut them, 2 cables can never be exactly the same length, even if done under a microscope.

You can hear them whispering to you at night: "Russell...Russell....we're not the same length...help us!".

How can you possibly sleep knowing this....

 

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