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RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System

74.67.16.10
Posted on April 14, 2015 at 04:11:09
fstein
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 Recently another poster wanted a DAC with More Bass. I asked how he found live music, and he said he preferred reproduced sound. Wondering if he was one of those one note megabass guys who pull up beside you in their noisemobile, I suggested he listen to live music more.
This is what i got from a fellow lunatic: "He doesn't need to hear more live music...he needs an honest reply to a completely legitimate question.This is an audio hobby board, NOT a live music review board.Try to stay focused!"
Well, I guess that showed me! I know "The Absolute Sound" is a loaded phrase, but I guess the hobby is not about music. Can downloads of train whistles be far away?

 

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RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 04:11:59
fstein
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 By the way, how do i get rid of this old subject line... it keeps popping up in my posts

 

People have different perspectives, wants, likes, desires and outcomes … , posted on April 14, 2015 at 05:27:53
three_sox
 ... One of my best friends likes lots of bass in anything he is listening to.

When he visits me he wants to turn up my two large subs to how he likes to listen.

I have allowed him to do this on occasions. To me, the sound is wayyyyyy too bass heavy.

But my friend likes it and prefers it and it is how he listens in his own home.

It is not what I like but guess what, he doesn't like how I like to listen to music.

I guess you think one of us is right and one of us is wrong?

I think we both listen to music how we prefer to listen to it.

I have heard a live band play in my main audio room and it is exciting and totally in your face. But I actually prefer listening to recorded music most of the time.

Sue me!


 

Edit it!, posted on April 14, 2015 at 06:45:28
E-Stat
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 Click preview to verify results.

 

And here I was..., posted on April 14, 2015 at 06:46:44
musetap
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  Since: January 28, 2004
 getting ready to suggest an integrated amp for a bedroom system...

Trust me, more bass does not equate one note OR thump, thump, thump bass coming out of a "noisemobile".


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure




 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 08:14:00
soulfood
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Posts: 3725
Joined: August 9, 2001
 "Wondering if he [poster seeking more bass via a new DAC] was one of those one note megabass guys who pull up beside you in their noisemobile, I suggested he listen to live music more."

You presume too much. Particularly the notion of listening to live music (???) is a cure-all for grasping reproduced sound (audio).

"I guess that showed me! I know "The Absolute Sound" is a loaded phrase, but I guess the hobby is not about music."

This shows me that your post is more about you.

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 08:36:40
fstein
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Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 By the way, I'm listening to twin JBL 15 inch woofers in minifridge sized boxes on mahler 2, subwoofed with Paradigm servo 15 dialed back so most of the time it's not apparent.
I choose not to use my digital room EQ
I live 16 minutes from Tanglewood, where I will attend 2-3 live concerts a week, and I have a 6 foot grand piano and my son is a professional musician.
I know about real bass, not thump thump.
Without reference to real music, we might as well all buy equalizers and turn them up to 12.

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 08:38:20
fstein
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Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 thump thump

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 08:39:06
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 I guess if I paint a Mona Lisa with 4 ears it's OK?

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 08:48:52
AbeCollins
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"He doesn't need to hear more live music...he needs an honest reply to a completely legitimate question.This is an audio hobby board, NOT a live music review board. Try to stay focused!"

I have to agree with the person who posted that response.

I don't see the problem with wanting a DAC or any other component with more bass. You don't know the strengths and weaknesses of his system or his room acoustics, or his musical preferences. Some equipment can sound lean and thin to anemic while others are rich, robust, full-bodied, and extended in the lower frequencies.

Depending on the genre and venue, I often hear deeper and more pronounced bass at live performances than I can easily achieve at home. In those cases, I too wish I had more bass. And in some cases I prefer listening at home vs a live performance. Stadiums, sports events centers, and many large venues have extremely poor acoustics. So asking the guy if he ever listens to live performances is irrelevant to his specific request.

When someone asks for more bass I don't automatically jump to the conclusion that he's a one-note megabass freak. Maybe he just wants more bass.

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 08:58:07
fstein
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Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 Or maybe he needs ear training

 

"This shows me that your post is more about you.", posted on April 14, 2015 at 09:10:57
rlw
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Posts: 3347
Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL
Joined: August 29, 2006
 Indeed. If the guy likes more bass, who are we to tell him he's wrong? Sheesh!!
-RW-

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 09:22:09
fstein
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Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 Abe, I have followed your postings for years and you are generally astute.
I did not jump to the conclusion that the original poster was a one note freak, but he was obviously a newbie.
To reopen the can of worms, I think that there has to be an objective standard, and to me that is live generally un- or minimally amplified music, which I am in a position to hear or play several times a week, or at least what is on the recording.
Note that I did not refer to an overdriven room in a bar where the EQ has been set by a 19 year old.
This whole conversation would have Harry Pearson spinning in his grave.
If an audio reviewer generally turned his bass up to 12 would you place any value in his writings? I think not.
I once took a friend to an audio salon. He was disappointed in the bass of a $20K speaker that clearly had all the bass when it was really on the recording. That was my concern.

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 09:32:23
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 It's about the sound of music (the hills are alive)

 

"...the absolute sound is a loaded phrase...", posted on April 14, 2015 at 09:44:26
Steve O
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Posts: 12383
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...It sure is! What if the preferred music genre doesn't involve live acoustic instruments and visceral bass is the norm?

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 09:56:09
AbeCollins
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RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 09:56:14
AbeCollins
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RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 12:10:02
fstein
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Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
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 ..then it is difficult to evaluate a system, as you don't know what you are comparing it to

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 14, 2015 at 13:31:53
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12383
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 It wouldn't surprise me that a fan of that type of music enjoys their music more because they're less frequently in a system evaluation mode. Could the pursuit of (system) perfection be the enemy of musical enjoymentt?

 

What? , posted on April 14, 2015 at 16:01:58
three_sox
 .. A tad presumptuous on your part.

And from your post above;

I think that there has to be an objective standard


That is your opinion and you are very ignorant of others if you believe everybody thinks the same or has the same goal.

If a person wants to listen to music with enhanced bass who the hell are you to be disparaging of their preferences & tastes?



 

In answer to your question there..., posted on April 14, 2015 at 21:21:05
musetap
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 and judging from his answers and attitude elsewhere in this thread, it would seem he's THEE Prima Donna!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

Agreed, posted on April 15, 2015 at 16:19:36
E-Stat
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 If a system cannot reproduce unamplified instruments and voice satisfactorily, then I'd rather not listen to any genre of music with it. For me, musical enjoyment involves some level of fooling the senses that I am not listening to electronics and boxes.

Heavy rockers can have their gruesome sound reinforcement system fidelity delivered at ear bleeding levels and never know the difference - or likely no longer have the hearing ability to realize otherwise. :)

 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 15, 2015 at 18:14:06
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 In response to various obnoxious ad hominem statements from the trolls, I think I should offer my creed.

As an audiophile for 50 years (took tube amp design as high school "enrichment", wired up a dynakit aged 16, I will take no backseat to anyone.

You are perfectly free to stick your cat's tail in an AC socket and call yourself an audiophile, but I think that if you do not owe some respect to the music and the musicians who made it you do not have my respect.

My gurus felt that to be called "fidelity" there should be some "faithfullness" to the original signal and to the music.In the case of rock and other processed types of music this may be difficult, as we have not only the gear settings but the engineers to worry about....

As someone who is privileged to hear live music by some of the world's greatest artists on a regular basis, I think I know what it should sound like.Don't tell me that yo-yo ma sounds "better" with 20 db of bass gain or his head in a sousaphone. As I said, you can do whatever you want, just don't call it music.

Don't kid yourself that cranking the EQ up (or down), then spending a fortune on cables to restore some balance to the system, while crying crocodile tears about a $50,000 unobtainable amp du jour makes you an audiophile.

 

I think ... , posted on April 15, 2015 at 20:10:18
three_sox
 ... You take yourself wayyyyyyyyyyy too seriously.

Speaking only for myself, I couldn't care less if I have your respect or otherwise.

I listen to music how I want to and it is totally irrelevant to me if you like it or agree or whatever.

I have had bands and musos play live in my home and on my property. Gosh!

When I buy albums I certainly don't owe the musicians or the music any respect whatsoever, I own them nothing.

If you feel the need to delude yourself you owe music and musicians your respect that is your burden to fantasize about. I think your comments are absurd.

If a person wants to listen to music with bass which is not supposedly realistic then that is their prerogative. I have more respect for folks who listen to music how they want it to sound than people who get cowered into listening to music how some internet bozo says they should listen.

I play guitar, piano/keyboard, flute, clarinet, accordion, harmonica, euphonium/fresh horn and drums (usually not at the same time) I think my family are very harsh critics, they prefer to listen recorded music in the very same room I play music live. Ungrateful so & so's they are.

Life's good, enjoy it. Especially enjoy listening to music however you wish and be gracious enough to allow others to do the same without ridicule.

Cheers.





 

RE: Integrated Amp for bedroom System, posted on April 15, 2015 at 20:20:30
fstein
Audiophile

Posts: 2997
Location: fstein
Joined: May 18, 2006
 "We like to believe that what we are all striving for is a system that will reproduce exactly what is on the recording, be that good, bad or so-so. Such a perfect component should perform its desired function—transduction, amplification or what have you—and nothing more. It should neither subtract from nor add to the input signal. It should, in other words, be the equivalent of a straight wire with gain, and when inserted into the signal path, it should produce exactly the same sound as when it is bypassed. Nothing could be more self-evident."
- Gordon Holt, founder Stereophile

 

Your gurus lied., posted on April 15, 2015 at 20:24:40
soulfood
Audiophile

Posts: 3725
Joined: August 9, 2001
 "My gurus felt that to be called "fidelity" there should be some "faithfullness" to the original signal and to the music."

"and to the music", was a misguided embellishment. It's just how gurus are.

 

What? , posted on April 15, 2015 at 20:26:12
three_sox
 ... What is the purpose of replying with a quote? How about addressing my comments instead of replying with a quote from another person. Try thinking for yourself instead of doing a copy and paste.

I don't know who the "we" or the "all" in the quote are but Holt or you don't speak for me, never have and never will.

EDIT; Syntax.

 

Your creed seems as disjointed as your various user names..., posted on April 15, 2015 at 21:47:40
musetap
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Location: San Francisco
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  Since: January 28, 2004
 leaving one to question not only what are you trying to prove but... who are you?

Then there's the integrated amp thing...


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure




 

Can't you even stick with one moniker or change the subject line?, posted on April 16, 2015 at 07:30:40
Dave_K
 You post under two monikers, Diogenes

You keep posting with the same subject line in every thread

You attack another poster for being a "one note megabass guy" without having any idea what their system sounds like or whether it is bass heavy or bass shy.

Your responses offer insults to people's hearing and childish taunts like "thump thump"

Then you post this masturbatory screed full of self-puffery

I just had to see what your reference is, so I checked out your current system (listed under your other moniker) and some of the gear you've owned in the past (e.g. HPM-100). Based on your own gear choices, I don't think you have any basis for flying the flag of fidelity and faithfulness to the signal.

You're a clown and a hypocrite and have a staggering ego


 

The worse part about the two monikers?..., posted on April 17, 2015 at 10:50:48
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 We have twice as many user names to ignore!


"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

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