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My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!

140.211.109.59
Posted on January 29, 2015 at 14:59:35
smrex13@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: Oregon, USA
Joined: December 3, 2014
 Hi everyone,

Thanks for the recommendations of audio stores in the SF Bay Area. As it turns out I didn't have nearly as much time as I had hoped to explore them, but I did make it to Tone of Music (after a 30 mile drive that took 3 hours - damn that SF traffic). The owner, Tim, is a very knowledgeable and understood my system needs right off the bat.

I only had about an hour, so I chose to listen to the Harbeth P3esr as I had never heard a Harbeth. He paired it with a Luxman integrated and a Line Magnetic CD player. His listening room is lined with shelves and equipment, so it's not an ideal acoustic space (but the cost of space in SF is at a premium, so no complaints). The speakers had not been played recently, so Time put on some acoustic bass music to warm them up. The clarity and realism of the instrument was very impressive. Later he put on some Jackson Browne, and there were some moments of absolute magic. Browne's voice was as real as anything I've ever heard from an audio system - spooky. Finally, we put on some electronica so that I could hear how deep the little Harbeths go. This was where I had some doubts about the little P3s. The bass seems to be rather undefined and boxy. It really sounded like someone smacking the side of a plywood box rather than bass. However, he was playing the music much louder than I would at home, and the room may have been contributing to the bass issues.

Anyway, it was a lot of fun to hear the Harbeths, but I'm still unsure about whether to buy them. I don't listen to electronica, hard rock or dance music, and in my 14x11 listening room I imagine they would provide more than enough bass depth. And I'm sure I could resell them to a budding audiophile if they don't work out.

Thanks again for all your suggestions!

Best, Scott

 

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RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 29, 2015 at 15:45:37
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Good to hear- Scott.

Which brand(s) of cables/cords were used during your demo?

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 29, 2015 at 16:06:33
smrex13@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: Oregon, USA
Joined: December 3, 2014
 Unfortunately, I didn't ask about the cabling. I had such a short time to listen that I just wanted to hear what the Harbeths could do.

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 29, 2015 at 18:09:07
BCR
Audiophile

Posts: 2446
Location: connecticut
Joined: April 7, 2009
 Go with the Harbeths. I have them about two years and I think they are an outstanding speaker. I have owned speakers more than twice the price including the more expensive Compact 7's and I like the smaller 3's better.

As far as the bass,your dealer was probably over driving them. The last thing I would describe them would be boxy. As a matter of fact I find them just the opposite they just disappear when I listen to them.

Good luck on your decision.

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 29, 2015 at 18:57:38
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Line Magnetic makes pretty wonderful sounding CD players - and this is largely a major factor in reproducing quality sound.

The Harbeth is good but I find it rather overpriced for what it offers. It's another in the LS-3/5a realm that personally I find to have been eclipsed by numerous much less costly loudspeakers - speakers that will reproduce classical/vocals and jazz just as well but will also play amplified bass better.

Speakers like the Audio Note AX Two ($1,000) and the KEF LS-50 ($1500) spring to mind. The caveat on the latter is that it is harder to get to sound good. The R300 from KEF is $1800 and some prefer it to the LS-50 and is much more full range in the bass.

The LS-3/5a variants are all very limited speakers for the prices they are charging in my opinion. Low sensitivity and low power handling limits their volume capability but also their ability to reproduce bass. And by extension their ability to reproduce dynamics.

No question they sound good but I can't get the price out of my head. $2200 US for limited bandwidth midrange only, low volume only, loudspeaker it has to have unbeatable midrange to overcome the weaknesses. The AX Two is at least as good in the midrange (IMO better) and it is much easier to drive (90dB 6ohm), has at least 10hz deeper bass, can play a lot louder and costs $1200 less. And it is hand built in Denmark using Danish drivers and was designed by the LS-3/5a designer.

The KEF LS-50 was also inspired by the LS-3/5a design for a modern age. To be fair - if it was that hard to find a Harbeth dealer - you can pretty much forget finding the AX Two. Still there are other speakers in the sub $2k range like Legacy Audio, ATC, Tekton, Omega, Zu Audio, Magnepan, Martin Logan boxed speakers using AMT, Roksan, and heaps more.

Just be sure to cover the more full range speaker bases because what you may deem unimportant now may in time wind up being a bit frustrating when its missing later.

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 29, 2015 at 20:46:32
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 I have yet to hear digital that comes close to the better analogue. In fact, I HATE to listen to CDs. MF explains why digital sounds like crap in one of his posts on Analogue Planet. IMO, the KEF LS 50s are better than any Harbeth, but please stop using CDs for critical listening.

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 30, 2015 at 05:59:37
middleground
 "to warm them up" too funny!

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 30, 2015 at 11:02:06
musetap
Audiophile

Posts: 31879
Location: San Francisco
Joined: July 8, 2003
Contributor
  Since: January 28, 2004
 Glad you had a good experience dealing with Tim: he's a knowledgeable guy and a great guy.

I've never heard Harbeth's but it sounds like you took a step farther along the audiophile journey.

Hope you had time to enjoy the local flora, festivities and food!

"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure



 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 30, 2015 at 11:12:46
smrex13@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: Oregon, USA
Joined: December 3, 2014
 Thanks for the responses. I agree that CD is not ideal for critical listening. My trip was too short to bring my own vinyl to really get an idea of what the P3s sound like. I just wanted to get a sense of the sound and scale of the little Harbeth.

I just didn't get enough of an impression to drop $2,200 on a speaker that might be lacking too much bass for my taste. Tough call. I really want to upgrade my speakers (currently have both a Focal 706V and a Wavetouch Audio Grand Teton Gen 2. Waiting on a new amp to be delivered, and then I'll turn my attention to speakers.

I appreciate all the input.

Scott

 

Where is your bass?, posted on January 30, 2015 at 11:27:39
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 99% of all minis don't do that well below about 55-60HZ, or worse. Rear ported minis can do better, also those that need to be put close to walls, but don't expect more than 5-10HZ. The cabinet volume is the limiting factor.

If you want to get down into the 30s, or lower, you need more volume, like the Harbeth 40s.

I don't much care for bassy music, so I do love the LS3/5A types and their offspring.

 

“The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.” nt, posted on January 30, 2015 at 12:05:11
Eldragon
 nt

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 30, 2015 at 17:43:19
TWB2
Dealer

Posts: 316
Location: N. California
Joined: July 10, 2004
 You should try Fritz Speakers. He offers home domo.

 

RE: My SF trip - heard some Harbeths!, posted on January 30, 2015 at 18:00:55
suretyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 3022
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Good for you. Over the years I've been in in high end audio stores all over the country and I've never so much as seen a Harbeth let alone heard one.

 

Surprised me too !!, posted on January 30, 2015 at 18:15:14
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46302
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I had just moved to N.CA and lived in Davis in the mid 1980's which is not that far from SF but inland and rather hot. I decided to visit SF one hot summer day with a couple friends. I couldn't believe how cold it was in SF! My shorts and golf shirt were the wrong choice for the day.


 

RE: Wait ! what about Digital ....., posted on January 30, 2015 at 19:42:34
A.Wayne
Audiophile

Posts: 2527
Location: Front row center
Joined: November 30, 2011
 So Digital is not good enough for critical listening , lmao, dats funny , just when you think you have heard it all ....



:)

 

RE: Wait ! what about Digital ....., posted on February 2, 2015 at 20:51:21
the old school
Audiophile

Posts: 764
Location: marin county
Joined: April 9, 2011
 All sound starts out as analogue. Digital converts the analogue signal into bits, and after processing those bits in myriad ways, must reconvert those bits back into analogue. Digital is, sonically speaking, pure crap! There is a good reason why vinyl records and analogue dominate most audio shows.

 

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