Another great company sells out to the Chinese

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 23, 2014 at 19:16:55
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	The shame is not on the Chinese.... It's on our own government, whose rising taxes and inflated wage requirements have made foreign business attractive and viable.

I didn't know you were Danish (nt) , posted on October 23, 2014 at 19:21:43
Steve O Audiophile Posts: 12364 Location: SE MI Joined: September 6, 2001

and I was thinking the government worked "for the peope", posted on October 23, 2014 at 19:24:01
cloudwalker Audiophile Posts: 634 Location: central wa Joined: September 27, 2012	silly me.

actually, posted on October 23, 2014 at 19:47:28

unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010

No matter where a speaker driver company is based, 96%+ of speaker sub assemblies are made in China already. China makes virtually 100% of metal cones and domes(maybe not forged beryllium domes, though).

Not necessarily bad for consumer. They use toxic glues banned in first world countries

Plus China is.officially.the biggest world economy.

News source,please,nt, posted on October 23, 2014 at 20:24:19
Inmate51

RE: actually, posted on October 23, 2014 at 20:29:25
Inmate51	And it's all Mitt Romney's fault. LOL

OMG, what a travesty! They sold to the highest bidder. Shock! Horror! , posted on October 23, 2014 at 22:19:05
three_sox	... It is sickening to see capitalism at work. Those Danes should have sold for less money to an American company. I just shake my head at you xenophobic clowns.

RE: OMG, what a travesty! They sold to the highest bidder. Shock! Horror! , posted on October 23, 2014 at 22:41:26
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	As always you play devils advocate. I guess that's your M.O.

As usual ... , posted on October 23, 2014 at 22:45:38
three_sox	... The irony goes straight over your head.

Was Dynaudio in financial trouble?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 00:39:39
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9178 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	If not then it is a sickening pure greed move by the major shareholders. I doubt it is a publically traded company so unless they were desparate for cash they probably weren't under any pressure to sell. I always saw Dynaudio as one of those long term audio success stories, now that vision is shattered.

LOL ... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 00:53:02

three_sox

... What a load of xenophobic drivel.

I phone my broker, hey, see how much you can offload my stake in XYZ company for.

Hey, Mr Sox, I have a buyer, one hundred dollars per share. I say sold!

Ooops, excuse me Mr Broker, if it is a Chinese company tell em to shove their offer up their rice hole.

Before your sneeze all over yourself, YES, I know it doesn't quite work like that when offloading parcels of privately owned companies but the principle is the same.

It's good to see xenophobia is still running strong around this place.

EDIT; See link. It seems the horrible founder of Dynaudio sold out to see his vision continue. The greedy bastard! LOL

Run for your life, the yellow peril will get you ...

RE: OMG, what a travesty! They sold to the highest bidder. Shock! Horror! , posted on October 24, 2014 at 01:34:55
middleground	I don't see that he does. Sox is pure neo-con.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 01:38:19
middleground	Oh yes slavery is what separates the real economies from the also-rans.

SOURCE here, posted on October 24, 2014 at 01:43:57

Tom Schuman
Audiophile

Posts: 2632
Location: Bremen
Joined: October 22, 2003

source below

Dynaudio sells to GoerTek, Inc. Weifang, China

Part of the western world's conspiracy to destroy Asia..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 06:17:54

genungo

The west is so sneaky. The chemicals and processes banned in 1st world countries (but allowed in Asia) are enabling dangerous speedy gene mutations within the Asian populace. Symptoms include high fever and hemorrhaging as the eyelids change shape from narrow to ovoid.

China - the world's greatest dumping grounds.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 06:18:50

Dman
Audiophile

Posts: 7211
Location: Kansas
Joined: January 28, 2001

As a Canadian ex-patriot, relocated (LEGALLY, I might add) to the US, I don't see a problem with what has transpired.

In fact, IIRC, isn't the ideal/idea of Capitalism to make a living at doing something via the exchange of goods or services? whether it's done well or not doesn't seem to matter to a lot these days, unfortunately?

Part of that ideal/idea (at least, as I see it) is being able to do with your business what you like (obviously within legal parameters, unless you are in bed with certain gov't officials)? If these two things are true, then I see no problem for Dynaudio choosing this course.

Obviously, people will be out of a job(s). Sure it will add to the (under and non) employment issues that we have, but that is life! If systems aren't/weren't in place to cope with that, we have only ourselves to blame for being a little too self centered with our own well-being to be bothered to worry about our proverbial brother(s)...

I've been both the underemployed low man, and I've also been the business owner. I've lived both the "sell-out-to-the-highest-bidder" and "sold-out-from-under" thing. Do I have a thicker skin as a result? Did I struggle to get through and reinvent myself? Sure on both accounts!!! Maybe one could say it is "Economic Darwinism" in two parts- the weak will go bankrupt while the strong will become wealthy- AND/OR- those who have made a living and are now ready to retire (really meaning; move onto the next goal in life). In other words; THEY EVOLVED (regardless of what Christianity might say- I DO believe in Economic Darwinism!).

Then again, this is only MY opinion.

YMMV...

Cheers,
Dman
Analog Junkie

Their products will still say "Made in Denmark"..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 06:29:03
genungo	... as a sort of "status symbol", I guess?

Undoubtedly a Communist conspiracy! , posted on October 24, 2014 at 06:44:18

rlw
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL
Joined: August 29, 2006

I speak the truth [g], see link below....

-RW-

The Next Revolution

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 06:53:30

Inmate51

What have you got against the Chinese? They have a strong work ethic and are a cheaper source than Denmark.

During the Clinton presidency, the US granted MFN status to China, and since then, you can't buy hardly anything without it being made in China.

Personally, I think it would be great if they would turn their sales office outside of Chicago into a full-blown manufacturing facility, AND start selling raw hifi drivers again! Hopefully, the Chinese will agree.

GoerTek - OMG!, posted on October 24, 2014 at 07:16:35
Zipcord Manufacturer Posts: 707 Location: No. California Joined: December 19, 2002	GoerTek manufactures/supplies cheap Electret Condenser Mics (ECMs) Audio/Telecom Industry

RE: LOL ... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 07:39:21
morricab Distributor or Rep Posts: 9178 Location: switzerland Joined: April 1, 2005	Why Xenophobic? I think it is sickening that they sell at all, not necessarily to the chinese. Regardless of who it is to the guys at the top just want to cash out and don't give a rat's ass about the future of the products that come out of the company. China will probably teach them a thing or two...but I doubt it will be about making better speakers.

Why xenaphobic? , posted on October 24, 2014 at 07:57:54

three_sox

... Because oh yeah, if Dynaudio had sold to a Danish audio company I'm sure you would have posted exactly the same thing. No? Kid yourself if you like, your comments are obvious.

As people get older what do you expect them to do?

Got any rational ideas on how a person who starts a company retires?

You say "cash out" like it is a bad thing?

What is this idiocy you imply about the founder of a company having some obligation about future products? Sounds naïve in the extreme to me.

China will probably teach them a thing or two...but I doubt it will be about making better speakers.

Sounds arrogant to me.

Carry on.

RE: actually, posted on October 24, 2014 at 08:09:52
Awe-d-o-file Dealer Posts: 21037 Location: 50 miles west of DC Joined: January 10, 2004	Hey how bout that law that passed 10 years or so back giving a tax credit if you build a factory in China. That helps who? ET ET "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

Chinese ownership, posted on October 24, 2014 at 08:50:01

layman
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Location: Washington, D.C.
Joined: August 8, 2007

I am sad to say that I agree entirely with Morricab, that this "transaction" respresents the end of Dynaudio as we have known it. The company has decided to cash out, like many Hifi Companies before them.

We have seen this before...the Chinese bought out Krell in the mid-2000's. The name Krell still appears on the new products but audiophiles know that the new Krell products are nothing like the old.

Similarly, when the Chinese bought out REL, they wasted no time laying off all the English REL staff. The new Chinese REL products are in no way comparable to English REL products.

I can go on.

The Chinese bought Rogers loudspeakers in 1993 and by 1998 had closed down the (English) speaker building operation entirely. Rogers products ceased to be traded except in the Far East where you saw the Rogers name attached to vacuum cleaners. It seeems the Chinese only saw value in the name and trademark.

The Chinese bought the English Verity Audio Group (including the venerable Mission brand) in the late nineties. Since then the former Verity brands have virtually vanished.

I also think that its telling that Chinese hifi collectors (who are busy vacuuming up all the world's best hifi) won't touch the products of the Chinese-owned companies. They prefer the originals. They know the difference.

WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE FOR "THE CHINESE" HAVING BOUGHT KRELL?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 09:05:50
John Marks Manufacturer Posts: 7799 Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I. Joined: April 23, 2000	I have never heard that. Is there a real source for that, such as a trade journal such as TWICE, or is that merely a supposition based upon the fact that Mr. D'Agostino now has a new company? My understanding is that the investor who "ousted" Mr. D'Agostino was local. jm

RE: Krell, posted on October 24, 2014 at 09:23:55
layman Audiophile Posts: 559 Location: Washington, D.C. Joined: August 8, 2007	You could be right. All I can confirm is that the new products are "Made in China."

RE: Chinese ownership, posted on October 24, 2014 at 09:29:09

Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012

What a totally uniformed, lame post.

First, to get this out of the way, you obviously have never taken the time to hear Chinese home grown hifi from Eastern Electric, Meldoy, Line Magnetic, or even the Auralic Vega.

Secondly, just as many companies have been led astray by being acquired by domestic or non chinese companies. The company known as Thiel was gutted by local buyers who are now destroying the legacy by tossing aside all of Jim Thiel's designs.

McIntosh was owned by a Japanese company for decades and they were led down the path of solid state hell.

Perhaps you have heard of Marantz? They also have been owned for a long, long time by a Japanese company and their current products are superb.

Lots of blather here.

KT or KP Capital Partners?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 09:37:14
-æ- Bored Member Posts: 788 Joined: May 9, 2013 Contributor Since: March 1, 1999	KT Capital Partners is what I originally heard. There was also talk of KP Capital Partners. If you aren't quite noticing or accepting what is really going on in the present, but are responding based on your thoughts or feelings about what ought to be, then you are apt to collide with what is really going on.

So with all the sour, dour bellyaching from you and others around here..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 09:57:37
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	about the state of the high end audio business and hobby, it appears that there's plenty of money still to be made by smartly run companies? Otherwise the Chinese wouldn't be the least bit interested in Dynaudio, their not being anything even resembling dumb. "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: LOL ... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 10:05:04
Inmate51	"I phone my broker, hey, see how much you can offload my stake in XYZ company for." You still phone a broker?! You DO realize this is 2014? Sorry, forgot, you're in OZ. :)

AFAIK, Krell was having products made in China while Mr. D'Agostino was in control., posted on October 24, 2014 at 10:12:58

John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7799
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000

But perhaps my memory on that is faulty.

In the grand scheme of things, no matter, because:

Perhaps you also heard about the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission's action about Krell amplifiers catching fire, while Krell was 100% American owned. And the CPCC recall says those amps were made in the USA, and I assume that the CPCC knew what they were talking about.

Amplifiers Recalled by Krell Industries Recalled Due to Fire Hazard

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 19, 2009
Release # 09-312

Firm's Recall Hotline: (888) 436-6055
CPSC Recall Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908

Amplifiers Recalled by Krell Industries Recalled Due to Fire Hazard

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with the firm named below, today announced a voluntary recall of the following consumer product. Consumers should stop using recalled products immediately unless otherwise instructed. It is illegal to resell or attempt to resell a recalled consumer product.

Name of Product: Amplifiers

Units: About 2,300

Distributor: Krell Industries LLC, of Orange, Conn.

Hazard: The amplifiers were designed to operate at a temperature warm to the touch. However, a component input device can fail and cause the amplifiers to overheat, posing burn and fire hazards to consumers.

Incidents/Injuries: Krell has received 50 reports of the amplifiers overheating including reports of smoke and electrical fire. No injuries have been reported.

Description: This recall involves Krell power amplifiers with model numbers KAV-250a, KAV-250a/3, KAV-500i and KAV-1500. The amplifiers are used to provide power to a loudspeaker in a home audio playback system. The Krell logo is printed on the front of the amplifier.

Sold by: Authorized dealers and distributors of audio equipment nationwide from January 1997 through February 2001 for between $3,000 and $8,000.

Manufactured in: USA

Remedy: Consumers should immediately stop using the amplifiers, and contact Krell to schedule the free installation of replacement fuses.

Consumer Contact: For additional information contact Krell at (888) 436-6055 between 9 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, or visit the firm’s Web site at www.krellonline.com. Consumers can also email the firm at service@krellonline.com

Have a nice quiet weekend.

jm

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 10:18:28

tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 8198
Joined: July 4, 2002

Hi
Due to the states huge union pension deficit of more than 100 billion dollars which triggered the last large tax increase, Illinois has become one of the least friendly states towards business and that increase drove many companies out of the state to Wisconsin and Indiana where the climate is more favorable.

With the next tax increase scheduled for right after the election and no possibility of dealing with the outrageous pensions promises, things will not be getting better so far as business and employment.

The problem is in the cost of doing business here, even though the Chinese have to import & ship raw materials from other countries and then manufacture the product, then export it here and pay tariffs, taxes and shipping here, it is still much cheaper to do that than building here.

http://politics.suntimes.com/article/springfield/illinois-pension-debt-rate-nation%E2%80%99s-worst-moodys-report-says/sat-09062014-848pm

RE: LOL ... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 10:25:45
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	This dude is behind on a lot of stuff.

RE: So with all the sour, dour bellyaching from you and others around here..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 10:38:10
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	I agree there is money in audio when you have a well recognized product like Dynaudio. All you have to do is have it made in China using 12 year olds and cheap parts. By the time joe public figures it out the Chinese will make bank.

It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 10:52:21

tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
Joined: March 21, 2005
Contributor
Since: October 1, 2005

Hi, Sudz,
I'm not sure it's a shame, it's just all part of the shifting of power world-wide. It's inevitable. And if you read the PR at Dynaudio's web site, the purchase makes sense from a product development and manufacturing perspective. Let's face it, mid-to-high end audio isn't going to persist as we've known it; the demographics are heading towards fewer of us old farts and our paradigms of what a stereo system looks and sounds like. Wireless connections and streaming are the future and Dynaudio is already at the leading edge of the trend in wireless sound systems. This merger provides the opportunity to develop a complete package.

Regards,
Tom

PS: I own Dynaudio speakers, so I'm happy. They're probably worth more now. :-)

Well done article. Nice to see facts as facts..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:00:58
Dman Audiophile Posts: 7211 Location: Kansas Joined: January 28, 2001	...and not the "spin" of some rather prominent TV news stations... Cheers, Dman Analog Junkie

+1., posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:06:11

Dman
Audiophile

Posts: 7211
Location: Kansas
Joined: January 28, 2001

From a business standpoint, I'm sure for those involved, things were very beneficial. While I am sorry to the lot that is probably gonna become an unemployment stat within the next 6 mos./year, as tomservo's link to the article he referenced (read if you haven't),I too have to agree- if there is a possibility for the company to advance, then all the power to them! I would move my company to a lower taxation area or sell my company to the highest bidder if the offer looked attractive enough...

Cheers,

Dman
Analog Junkie

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:06:28
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Sad but true, you make some good points. I guess my Dynaudio's will be going in the trash next Thursday. The only thing I want to see the Chinese owning are Chinese restaurants.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:29:40
Inmate51	"raise property taxes or cut services" Typical government scare tactic. They never seem to figure out how to trim their fat, i.e., excessively large workforce, unnecessary spending, extravagant benefits, etc.

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:42:21
middleground	It does?

RE: So with all the sour, dour bellyaching from you and others around here..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:44:38
middleground	It's pretty safe when you have wage slaves to manufacture your stuff.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:48:37
middleground	Is it Kansas that is doing so well Mr. Laffer, eugh sorry, Mr. tomservo?

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 11:50:22
middleground	This is getting too political, but what with your beliefs and the moderators here you are safe.

What can I say?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 12:03:14
driver8 Audiophile Posts: 842 Location: Montreal Joined: December 5, 2002	ಠ_ಠ

THAT'S how Dynaudio grew their company to the point that is was at to... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 12:14:29
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	attract new investors! Who knew (other than you and sudz)? Tell us more oh knowing one! "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

"The only thing I want to see the Chinese owning are Chinese restaurants.", posted on October 24, 2014 at 12:26:04
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	Never takes long for the frightened to bare their ignorance in this type of thread, though it took you longer than usual. Did someone in this thread mention xenophobia? "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

And the Danes did all this without sacrificing *happiness*..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 12:36:00

genungo

How cum?

The Happiest Country

RE: THAT'S how Dynaudio grew their company to the point that is was at to... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 12:46:41
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Dude, you are not buying there speakers! Why do you care?

And you are?..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 13:08:09
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	is that why YOU care? "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: So with all the sour, dour bellyaching from you and others around here..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 13:08:25
Mr. Dick Hertz	Just how many so-called domestic manufacturers use domestically-produced drivers? Most of the drivers used in speakers today are made in China. As far as the quality of Dynaudio declining, don't you think the folks back in Denmark will have some say-so regarding Dynaudio labeled products? Or have you read the corporate documents detailing all of the aspects of this merger?

On another site I visit someone started a thread on same topic but it was quickly deleted., posted on October 24, 2014 at 13:16:40
bjh Audiophile Posts: 18614 Location: Ontario Joined: November 22, 2003	Seems they wanted to avoid the predictable bigot feeding frenzy.

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 14:17:51

tketcham
Audiophile

Posts: 6701
Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA
Joined: March 21, 2005
Contributor
Since: October 1, 2005

Hi, middleground,
Sure, in respect to the global economy. With the implosion of the Soviet Union, Japan's slippage from it's former economic prominence, and the European Union's financial troubles, China is filling the voids. The difference is that China is much smarter about it's role in the world's economy than Russia, has far more growth potential than Japan ever had, and is financially solvent in ways that most countries can only dream about. So the balance of power is shifting. As to whether the earth's center of gravity is affected, only time will tell.

Regards,
Tom

RE: Was Dynaudio in financial trouble?, posted on October 24, 2014 at 14:23:15
unclestu Dealer Posts: 5851 Joined: April 13, 2010	Dynaudio was farming out subassemblies to China about a decade ago. So it is no surprise. Even 8 years ago, on their boxes holding their drivers one could read, Denmark, some other place, and China printed on the box itself. IIRC, a lot was already being subbed out to China but they were afraid to fully admit how much. Well, now that China owns them outright, its not an issue any more.

RE: Chinese ownership, posted on October 24, 2014 at 14:38:05

unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010

Big difference between Japan and China currently.

That China may catch up is probably assured. That China has a lot to live up to is also very true, too however.

Made in Japan in the 50's and 60's was a synonym for poor quality. Today it is a mark of quality.

Incidentally Mac was bought out by Japan car stereo giant Clarion. They did not institute any changes in Mac production but did insist that they make some car stereo gear.

Marantz went through the wringer, through a host of ownerships that produced cheap crap ( Sanyo at one time owned the name). when Philips tried to enter the Japanese market, it was more economical for them to buy out the Sanyo factories and name than to try and establish the Philips name in Japan. They pumped a lot of investment into Marantz and eventually the Japanese division bought out Philips, a good thing because Philips has ended all consumer electronics as of last year.

Marantz is now a 40-60 partner with Denon ( D-M holdings), and the two share technology. Their pro stuff will carry either name....

China despite fears, can produce decent stuff. In talking to certain far east manufacturers like Usher, they are careful to point out that they are Taiwanese, not mainland China, and obey all world wide patents and such. There is a distinction although it may be lost on most.

API, home company to Mirage, Energy, and such, once the largest speaker manufacturer in the world is switching to China. Interestingly they tie in their production payment to the QC of shipments. 5% failure or reject and they do NOT pay for the entire shipment (this was 8 years ago so it may have changed). They report that reject rate fell to 0.5%, even better than their Canadian made product.

With ISO certification China is slowly upping their manufacturing quality. I would say they are where Japan was at in the mid 60's

FWIW

RE: THAT'S how Dynaudio grew their company to the point that is was at to... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 15:08:08
middleground	Some miscommunication involved here...

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 15:13:17
middleground	The owners of the US made China by outsourcing\offshoring. Have the Chinese invented anything since gun powder?

RE: Why xenaphobic? , posted on October 24, 2014 at 15:15:32

morricab
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 9178
Location: switzerland
Joined: April 1, 2005

Depends on the nature of the Danish company they sold to. If that other company specialized in, let's say washing machines, I would probably have a negative comment to say. If they had consolidated with Dali I don't think I would care much.

BTW, in Europe there are many old Breweries that have carried on with traditional recipes for centuries...so continuity when the original owner retires or dies IS possible.

Cashing out isn't always bad but in this case it means probably wholesale change in the business he founded...like the sale of Thiel once Jim Thiel died. The new products don't even remotely resemble the products that the company built it's reputation on.

"What is this idiocy you imply about the founder of a company having some obligation about future products?"

Not idiocy at all but companies that care about their reputation more than profits.

Not arrogance, experience with Chinese products. Sure they are improving and will one day reach the same level of craftsmanship...but they aren't there yet.

RE: And you are?..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:12:44
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	I own C-1's bro!

Fire hazard hot line :-), posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:12:56
mark111 Audiophile Posts: 4699 Joined: April 12, 2002	he he

RE: So with all the sour, dour bellyaching from you and others around here..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:15:07
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	It's not Dynaco bro, it's Dynaudio.

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:18:16
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	The Chinese don't invent. They copy.

Two clowns on the hook ... ., posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:20:35
three_sox	... Enlighten the board with how you sell unlisted shares in a private company? Duh!

RE: Chinese ownership, posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:22:10
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	You see Krell being sold by the big mail order firms. That gear is made in China

RE: Two clowns on the hook ... ., posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:32:21
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Here we go again with the devils advocate trip. You remind me of Phil Donahue. I am sure you have no idea who that is.

So, you are not buying there speakers as you have already bought their..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:43:19
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	speakers? The past sure is tense. Does that worry you over the future or are their other plots afoot lurking over you're shoulder like a sullen waiter in a Chinese restaurant waiting for you to pay your bill, bro? "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

Time will tell .... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:50:59

three_sox

... How successful Dynaudio is in the future. My guess is their future is bright.

Dynaudio is 37 years old and comparing it to breweries is silly. I doubt any speaker/audio company founded in 1977 will have the same traditions of manufacturing audio gear in centuries to come. Time will tell LOL.

I'd also say Dynaudio speakers are better today than they were in 1977. YMMV.

"Cashing out" is inevitable. There is rarely an alternative, except maybe going broke.

You mention Thiel, are you suggesting Thiel was uncaring because he died? Enlighten me about what YOU think should have happened after Thiel
died and how your views about Thiel would be implemented?

Some manufacturing in China is world class. Like in every country there is good and bad.

The irony is it is the insatiable greed of the West which has most empowered China. China can't force anyone to buy anything. But the West loves making money with China, as they should.

Lastly, I think you, and many others on this site, are ignorantly & arrogantly impugning the character & motives of Wilfried Ehrenholz for no other reason than your intrinsic hate & fear of China.

Stay on point ... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 16:56:29

three_sox

... You say;

This dude is behind on a lot of stuff.

Just answer the question;

Enlighten the board with how you sell unlisted shares in a private company?

Here is a hint, you need to phone a broker or meet in person with a broker.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 17:39:01
fantja Audiophile Posts: 15518 Location: Alabama Joined: September 11, 2010	Thanks! for sharing Sudz- yes, it is important to post companies that are cutting corners w/ the chinese!

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 18:47:11
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Thank you my friend. It's nice to hear from someone with common sense. This board can be scary at times.

RE: Stay on point ... , posted on October 24, 2014 at 18:53:12
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Btw- Phil Donahue was a talk show host in the states in the 70's and the 80's. His Schtik was to always play Devils advocate on the show. Similar to what you do here.

Everyone wants to sell out ..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 18:56:21
Bromo33333 Audiophile Posts: 3502 Location: Ipswich, MA Joined: May 4, 2004	I don't care who bought it, seems like everyone wants to sell out to make a quick hit of cash. Nobody wants to work for a living ... Ah well ... such is this day and age. ==== "You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you." ~ R A Wilson

Stop with your BS and condescension ..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:08:54

three_sox

Of course I know who Phil Donahue is.

Your idiocy is well known around AA but stay on point sudz.

In your eagerness to impugn me all you did was highlight how ignorant you are about how business works.

You charge me with;

This dude is behind on a lot of stuff.

So again, how about you put me straight and answer the brain-dead simple question.

Enlighten the board with how you sell unlisted shares in a private company?

RE: Stop with your BS and condescension ..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:24:36
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Your a god dude. Everyone here knows how smart you are. What I can't understand is why you feel the need to always prove yourself. That is the real important question of the day.

Is it really that hard to answer the question? , posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:28:09
three_sox	... Rhetorical ol' son, rhetorical.

Happiness is overrated..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:42:31
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	and, apparently, under paid! "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

Wonder how many lives were saved from burning USA amps by smoke detectors..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:45:58
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	made in China? "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:51:55

Inmate51

Not really. Someone made a comment about the cost of doing business and manufacturing in the U.S. While there is clearly a political aspect to taxes, government at all levels and of both Parties are guilty of using scare tactics to whip the townsfolk into submission. It's virtually political-neutral.

Most governments work for the government first and foremost..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:53:42
musetap Audiophile Posts: 31874 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	the people get the trickle down. "Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure

Touché !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, posted on October 24, 2014 at 19:55:55
John Marks Manufacturer Posts: 7799 Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I. Joined: April 23, 2000	'Tis not as deep as a well, nor as wide as a church door; but, 'twill do; 'twill serve... jm

RE: So with all the sour, dour bellyaching from you and others around here..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 20:15:52
Mr. Dick Hertz	As long as you're correcting other's typos, try correcting your grammar first. In your initial post you said Dynaudio's (a contraction) when it should have been Dynaudios (plural). Later on you posted "buying 'THERE' speakers" (a preposition) instead of "'THEIR' speaker" (a possessive pronoun). But you refused to address the issues raised, so we'll just count this as another FAIL on your part.

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 20:19:40
tketcham Audiophile Posts: 6701 Location: East of the 100th meridian USofA Joined: March 21, 2005 Contributor Since: October 1, 2005	Oh, I thought we were talking about Dynaudio and business decisions, world trade and the relationship to economic power. Not sure about gunpowder. Did the USA invent outsourcing? We seem to have perfected it. :-( Tom

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 21:13:30

suretyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 3022
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001

The breadth and depth of ignorance displayed in this thread about the most fundamental aspects of capitalism and business is simply breathtaking. Dynaudio, at least to my knowledge, is not a philanthropy nor a social welfare agency, therefore the expectations expressed here are incredibly wide of the mark. And then there is the ridiculous assumption that involvement by a Chinese entity means an automatic decline in quality.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 21:17:42
suretyguy Audiophile Posts: 3022 Location: western Missouri Joined: October 9, 2001	Is it possible you don't know that Dynaudio is not a USA company and that your comments are therefore irrelevant?

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 21:35:07
sudz1234@yahoo.com Audiophile Posts: 2956 Joined: February 20, 2011	Hey cuz, I have owned Dynaudio speakers for 20 years! I know where there made.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 24, 2014 at 23:01:38
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	"Is it possible you don't know that Dynaudio is not a USA company and that your comments are therefore irrelevant?" I presumed Dynaudio was an American company.... I knew Bang & Olufsen was a Danish company, but I had no idea Dynaudio was one too. But I've seen too many American companies go foreign.... For the very reason I stated above.

Some would say so..., posted on October 24, 2014 at 23:28:35

genungo

Hamlet, for instance?

*Happiness*

Quite possibly., posted on October 25, 2014 at 04:50:29
b.l.zeebub Audiophile Posts: 9361 Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W Joined: April 17, 2006	About ten years ago Dynaudio was bought by TC Group (that's when they stopped supplying raw drivers to individuals and doubled the price of spares), were subsequently spun off again and now sold to China. TC Group held on to Tannoy who they purchased a year earlier.

RE: Everyone wants to sell out ..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 05:42:36
fantja Audiophile Posts: 15518 Location: Alabama Joined: September 11, 2010	Right On! Bromo I never (knowingly), buy junk from china.

RE: Everyone wants to sell out ..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 06:16:33
Bromo33333 Audiophile Posts: 3502 Location: Ipswich, MA Joined: May 4, 2004	I don't think it is "selling out to" anyone in particular. The nationality isn't important, just the original energy and direction set by the founder is lost in most cases. But ... to be fair, the death of the founder sometimes does that, too. ==== "You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you." ~ R A Wilson

It's true that the Chinese CAN IF THEY CHOOSE make products of the highest quality, posted on October 25, 2014 at 10:44:32
Feanor Audiophile Posts: 9858 Location: London, Ontario Joined: June 17, 2003 Contributor Since: March 12, 2004	Unfortunately the standard Chinese business plan is to undercut competitors' prices and sell to the mass consumer market rather than niche, up-markest. Nowadays Western makers MUST sell to the high-end niche unless they move production off-shore. On-shore labor and other costs are supply too high for them to manufacture for the lower and mid-markets. Dmitri Shostakovich

RE: Exceptions, posted on October 25, 2014 at 11:19:51

genungo

There are a few exceptions "on-shore", of course. Many of them seem to cater to the medium to low wattage/medium to high-efficiency school of hifi (Magnepan being a notable exception), which includes headphone hifi. These companies glide low and are happy to stay that way for the most part. Perpetually shrouded in mystery to some extent because they rely mostly upon word of mouth for sales, they rarely do shows or spend on advertising and generally keep all superfluous costs to a minimum. No affiliations.

About

Nothing against the Chinese, posted on October 25, 2014 at 11:26:56
jedrider Audiophile Posts: 15166 Location: No. California Joined: December 26, 2003	But would we want BMW selling out to Ford, for instance? I wonder what happened to Jaguar, though?

RE: It's just another example of the world re-balancing itself..., posted on October 25, 2014 at 12:36:24
middleground	It's based on the love of money overriding the love of being a civil society or the love of actually building things.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 25, 2014 at 12:38:48
middleground	Are you the inventor of the Political Pretzel Sound Bite?

RE: It's true that the Chinese CAN IF THEY CHOOSE make products of the highest quality, posted on October 25, 2014 at 14:05:29
fantja Audiophile Posts: 15518 Location: Alabama Joined: September 11, 2010	Excellent point Feanor.

RE: It's true that the Chinese CAN IF THEY CHOOSE make products of the highest quality, posted on October 25, 2014 at 14:54:11
suretyguy Audiophile Posts: 3022 Location: western Missouri Joined: October 9, 2001	I don't necessarily disagree with your comments, but they're not really responsive to my point about the assumption expressed in this thread that Chinese products are automatically inferior. But that issue palls by comparison with my other point about the ignorance of how business works.

RE: Another great company sells out to the Chinese, posted on October 25, 2014 at 14:55:49
suretyguy Audiophile Posts: 3022 Location: western Missouri Joined: October 9, 2001	I didn't direct my question to you.

RE: Nothing against the Chinese, posted on October 25, 2014 at 15:06:42
suretyguy Audiophile Posts: 3022 Location: western Missouri Joined: October 9, 2001	Interesting that you bring this up. In 1910 Ford sold its Volvo personal automobile business to a Chinese firm. Ford had allowed the quality, reliability and dependability for which Volvo had always been known to deteriorate. By all accounts the brand has been improved significantly since the change of ownership.

1910?, posted on October 25, 2014 at 15:08:57
genungo	?

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Another great company sells out to the Chinese

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