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Vintage Turntables

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Posted on October 16, 2014 at 18:34:33
Kidomaha
Audiophile

Posts: 92
Location: Indiana
Joined: September 13, 2014












So, over the past few months, I have been collecting equipment to put together an all "vintage" set-up just for kicks. When it comes to the turntable, I am a fish out of water. I know very little about them. I have collected 3 TTs of late though. They are:
1. Sony PS-LX4;
2. Sanyo DC Servo TP727; and
3. Scott Belt Drive Auto Return PS60C.

The Scott, by far, sounds the best but that may very well be because of the bad cartridges in the other two. Does anyone have any opinions about which of these 3 might be best to keep? Thanks in advance for the assistance.

Kerry
Kerry

 

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RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 16, 2014 at 19:27:10
Rod M
Web Geek

Posts: 16244
Location: So. California
Joined: March 1, 1999
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 I'm at a loss. The Sanyo looks great, but the picture is better for seeing the table and arm.

You're right on cartridges though. They're all different and if one is worn out and mis-aligned, it's all apples and oranges.

To evaluate the tables, you'd need to get a cartridge alignment tool and swap the one you like the best with the other tables as well as checking the alignment on the table that it's on.

Here's a good place to start:

-Rod

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 16, 2014 at 20:02:36
Kidomaha
Audiophile

Posts: 92
Location: Indiana
Joined: September 13, 2014
 That's exactly what I needed Rod. A push in the right direction. Thank you!
Kerry

 

The Sony and Sanyo are probably better turntables., posted on October 17, 2014 at 04:57:02
olddude55
 The Sony is quartz-lock direct drive, which is a plus. You'll have a much wider choice of cartridges with either turntable because they both use the standard mount.
If you want to play records and not deal with set up at all, then the Scott is the way to go. It uses a P-mount cartridge, and if I recall the P-mount system was designed so that the user could replace a cartridge and no adjustments would be necessary, not even vertical tracking force. I'll often recommend vintage P-mount tables for friends who want to play records but don't want to get involved in set-up.
The drawback is that you'll be limited to P-mount cartridges only. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Audio Technica, Grado, and Shure all make P-mount carts and there are upgrade styli available.

 

My recommendation?, posted on October 17, 2014 at 05:48:42
rlw
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL
Joined: August 29, 2006
 I'd broom all of them and get a really good vintage turntable. That is, if you're really serious about having a nice vintage 'table.

And I would recommend one of the Denons from the late 70s - early 80s. Look for DP-45, 52, 57, 60, 62, etc. Those tables were built like tanks, sounded very good, and look exquisite. And they are good enough to really take advantage of a nice cartridge in the $100 - $800 range.

Look on FleaBay, you'll find the Denons all over the place...


-RW-

 

I never understood, posted on October 17, 2014 at 08:54:36
Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13975
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999
 why P mount cartridges were not very successful. They're very simple to
install - no muss, no fuss, no need to invest a whole lot of money in
infrequently used accessories - and they all sounded fine to my ear.

My gut feeling is that people who like vinyl are inveterate fiddlers and
tinkerers: they actually enjoy jumping up every 15-20 minutes to change
the record, fiddling with VTA, trying new tt mats, adjusting tracking
weight, washing records, spending money on inner and outer record sleeves,
trying different carts and styli, etc., etc., ad nauseam. Personally,
I like to pop the disc in the player and listen uninterrupted for an hour
or so. YMMV or course ...

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 17, 2014 at 09:15:41
6bq5
Audiophile

Posts: 4387
Location: SF Bay
Joined: August 16, 2001
 You might also try the Vinyl and vintage forums-
another good older table is the Luxman, and older thorens.
Happy Listening

 

You might be on to something., posted on October 17, 2014 at 10:48:16
olddude55
 There were some really good turntables with P-mount arms but apparently they never sold and still don't get much respect. Maybe if we had bought in, outfits like VPI and Rega would be making decks with P-mount tone arms today.

Didn't Technics make a good solid quartz-locked direct drive deck with a P-mount arm? And wasn't there once a Shure V15 series P-mount cart?

 

I totally agree!, posted on October 17, 2014 at 10:56:43
rlw
Audiophile

Posts: 3347
Location: Near West Palm Bch, FL
Joined: August 29, 2006
 "My gut feeling is that people who like vinyl are inveterate fiddlers and
tinkerers..."

Yep. I've had numerous turntables. My favorites were the B&O tangential trackers. I *loved* the fact that the cartridges were optimized for the tonearms and simply snapped into place. Set your tracking force and you're done!

Like you, once CDs came out, I jumped on that bandwagon and never looked back. Not having to fuss and fiddle ad infinitum and having 1+ hours of music uninterrupted sealed the deal for me...

-RW-

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 17, 2014 at 12:04:54
Mechnutt
Audiophile

Posts: 17
Location: Woodbury MN
Joined: October 15, 2014
 Very nice.

I just got back into vinyl and purchased a Thorens TD-145 and Pioneer PL-55x. I have the Thorens set up and in the next couple of weeks I will try the Pioneer. Both are in excellent condition.

 

agree, posted on October 17, 2014 at 12:07:13
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
Contributor
  Since: June 17, 2003
 tons of nice turntables on fleabay.









 

Inveterate fiddlers and tinkerers . . ., posted on October 18, 2014 at 14:30:49
DRam
Audiophile

Posts: 1309
Location: Montana
Joined: July 30, 2005
 Yup. Nothing is as satisfying as tweaking settings on a turntable. Unless it's trying to maximize speaker placement and room environment.

Gotta go now. I haven't checked the VTF for a few days. Have see how it's doing and maybe see if a .1 gram change will affect sound for the better. ;)

 

Rega TTs have a 'no-brainer' cart install. but most buy aftermarket carts there too. nt, posted on October 18, 2014 at 19:39:36
Nuit
 .

 

It's a passing phase, a rite of passage..., posted on October 19, 2014 at 06:55:56
genungo
 I'd bet that most people here went through the fiddling and tinkering phase. I know I did. You can't know what does and does not work unless you fiddle and tinker to some degree.

The three things that matter most to me, performance-wise?

- Placement. Of speakers, listening seat, and components. Speaker/seat placement relating to acoustics. Component placement relating to vibration control, cabling issues, and ergonomics.

- Component matching. Mostly, amp/speaker synergy. I'm mostly looking for a natural sounding tonal balance, decent dynamics, and a low noise floor.

- Cartridge. The cartridge is more influential than any other part in a turntable system, assuming that the phono preamp is properly matched and the turntable itself is a halfway decent model that maintains proper speed.

If I'm happy with the state of these things and every other aspect of my system attracts little or no undue attention, then I can relax and listen almost indefinitely...

 

You inspired me to get the Beogram TX-2 out of its box., posted on October 19, 2014 at 14:01:30
olddude55
 and back in the system. Sweet little deck.

 

RE: I never understood, posted on October 19, 2014 at 16:47:54
Kidomaha
Audiophile

Posts: 92
Location: Indiana
Joined: September 13, 2014
 I think that is probably a very accurate description of those types. At this stage, I don't know enough to know what to tinker with. For now, simple is good. For now.
Kerry

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 19, 2014 at 16:58:34
Kidomaha
Audiophile

Posts: 92
Location: Indiana
Joined: September 13, 2014
 Thanks all for the excellent ideas. I'm probably leaning towards following rlw's advice to get rid of all of them and upgrade. That is sort of what I have done with other components over the years. I do have one more related question. In my parents' basement is an OLD Magnavox console TV/stereo. (I live in Fort Wayne, IN where Magnavox was once headquartered). I believe the console was my grandfather's. (I am 43 to give you a frame of reference). I know there is a turntable somewhere inside that behemoth! Any chance it's worth unearthing or were all TT's found in these old consoles crap? Thanks for all your efforts to bring me up to speed with TTs. Looking forward to the learning curve and acquisition chase!
Kerry

 

RE: My recommendation?, posted on October 19, 2014 at 17:01:57
Kidomaha
Audiophile

Posts: 92
Location: Indiana
Joined: September 13, 2014
 Good timing. I see the Sanyo just sold on eBay.
Kerry

 

RE: Beogram, posted on October 19, 2014 at 19:22:23
genungo
 Beogram 5000 with MMC-3 cartridge here. Another sweet B & O.

 

Still kicking myself..., posted on October 20, 2014 at 02:52:35
olddude55
 the B&O cart that came with the deck was buggered and I replaced it with the cheapest Soundsmith unit. The SMMC4 was only $150, but should have sprung for the SMMC2, which is now something like $500USD.
The SMMC4 sounds good but the bonded elliptical stylus can get tizzy on some vocals.

 

RE: Still kicking myself..., posted on October 20, 2014 at 03:27:54
genungo
 I'm going for the Soundsmith SMMC2 after my MMC3 stylus wears out. I think having a good auto deck is fun and the extra money might be well spent. I can always get Soundsmith's cartridge adapter if I want to use the SMMC2 on a different arm/deck combo.

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 20, 2014 at 06:16:44
Markw*
Audiophile

Posts: 10370
Joined: June 1, 2001
 Not really. The ones you are ditching are better than the one in the console.

The only reason to restore that one would be for sentimental reasons to preserve the console in it's original condition.

 

Ditto., posted on October 20, 2014 at 06:51:21
olddude55
 SMMC2 for me also.
I used the TX2 for a couple of hours yesterday evening. It doesn't sound as good as my main deck but it's close. The biggest differences are the effect of the elliptical stylus and not as much bass energy.
But it still sounds damned good, much better than the Rega P2 I used at one point, better than my friend's Kenwood/Transcriptors combo.
I've got a cat problem. There are two windows on the same wall as the stereo rack and the cats use the rack as a path to the windows.
If I recall, the Beogram is pretty much cat proof so I played records with the door to the stereo room open for a change. Of course, none of the cats tried to jump on the deck.

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 20, 2014 at 08:25:19
kff
Audiophile

Posts: 1033
Location: SE PA
Joined: October 19, 2006
 scott, late 80s 90 bucks new
sanyo early 80s 130 new
sony early 80s 190 new.

Get em all dressed up and sell em on CL for just under a c-note each in good working condition and use the money to step up a bit.

 

RE: Vintage Turntables, posted on October 20, 2014 at 17:21:23
badteacher
Audiophile

Posts: 304
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: June 5, 2012
 You might want to look at a JVC QLY-5F. I have had mine for 28 years. It is a quiet direct drive, servo controlled. I use it with a Grado Reference Platinum (notorious for picking up TT hum) and it is dead quiet.

 

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