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I'm giving props to Lady Gaga...

42.2.154.247
Posted on September 6, 2014 at 23:21:37
RGA
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 So the pop queen is getting away from the "fans who brung her" and is coming out with a Duets album with Tony Bennett called "Cheek to Cheek" as Tony was impressed by her vocals and interpretive ability.

She also took noted that there will be "No autotune. No tricks. Pure jazz."

Some pretty high praise from Tony here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47R_yoirN84

What I would like to see regardless of your bent on Lady Gaga is an uptick in the era's music brought back to the mainstream.

 

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she had an amazing performance here..., posted on September 6, 2014 at 23:26:55
bullethead

an extremely talented woman... would love to see her on Blue Note :)

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 01:37:59
Todd Krieger
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 "She also took noted that there will be 'No autotune. No tricks. Pure jazz.'"

Lady Gaga has claimed "no Auto-Tune" in the past, but it was always Auto-Tuned..... Something tells me this is going to be the same old BS..........

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 04:52:38
RGA
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 Lady Gaga clearly uses auto tune in the pop songs to the "Cher effect" which is of no concern to me. It's basically used as a pseudo synthesizer.

I also don't have an issue with pop singers using it at the same time as a dance number at a live concert because dancing and trying to sing is likely to push you off pitch so long as you're still singing live I find that fine.

I think we want to know they can sing and I suppose the only way to know for absolute certainty is to hear them sing Acapella and not into any sort of microphone.

Lady Gaga has said she uses auto tune - has not denied it.

"Last week, I caught up with Lady GaGa, one of Akon's protégés, and currently number one all over the world with 'Just Dance'. Which has, of course, been autotuned to the hilt. But throughout our interview she kept bursting into snatches of song to demonstrate a point, and it was clear she had no trouble hitting whatever notes she wanted. So I asked her why she felt the need to amend her vocals in the studio. "Its not for my voice," GaGa replied. "The radio is used to a certain perfection and it compresses the voice in a certain kind of way, it smooshes all of the sound together so it sounds smaller but fatter, its not open, very condensed. Unless you are Duffy, where its this extremely organic record, its important to play into the psychology of the listener who is used to a certain sonic quality in the voice. If they don't hear that, its not hip."

Indeed, what she is describing to me sounds like the loudness war - auto tune aids yet again compressed recordings to sound "decent" on $3 car speakers and $3 iPhone headphones. With Gaga you can usually tell in the Vibrato if she is auto-tuned and when she's not.

I don;t think she would lie - she admitted using auto tune and made a kabillion kazillin dollars anyway. So it's not like anyone much cared.

So take the above with the following:

[There] "is no auto tune on the album at all. And the records are one-take suzies. We sang them over and over until they were right." (Cheek to Cheek)

Bennett may be responsible for that as well.

 

She is once again following Madonna, posted on September 7, 2014 at 05:41:33
E-Stat
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 who went "mainstream" with Evita almost twenty years ago.

Perhaps Gaga might also take voice training as well to fine tune her pipes. It helped extend Madonna's range to three octaves.

 

Three octaves? LOL, posted on September 7, 2014 at 06:30:59
budget fi
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 Madonna never could and still can't sing or dance very well, even when doing it separately. I will give her some musical credit for writing many of her own songs.

 

To both..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 08:02:55
RGA
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 Being able to sing octaves doesn't mean you're a better singer. Mariah Carey has 5+ octaves but I'd personally much rather listen to Madonna even though arguably Carey is the better all around singer. There's an X factor there which is why Madonna sells more than anyone else and she's done it for 30+ years.

E Stat - Yes she had vocal training before and probably during Evita - although I actually preferred her voice Pre-Evita where she had a rawer lighter breezier sound. For example "This Used to be My Playground" one of my favorites from Madonna (and five years before Auto Tune was invented).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrxwt9_madonna-this-used-to-be-my-playground_music

Gaga has been classically trained although it would be interesting to see if Bennett makes some improvements. She did say she has learned a lot from him.


Budget fi - this site analyzes many of today's female singers and their vocal range with strengths and weaknesses. It appears Madonna does indeed have a solid 3 octave range (a bigger range in fact than Adele).

Gaga's range is 4 octaves and 1 note according to the link below (how accurate it is - well they show the youtubes of the parts in various songs noting the notes). You have to scroll down for the update because the top says 2.7 octaves http://www.divadevotee.com/2010/10/lady-gaga-vocal-profile.html

I think a lot of the judgements come from whether people "like" the person behind the microphone or not and whether the type of music they sing is their cup of tea or not.

Everyone was in love with the Dixie Chicks and they made a few political comments and CD's were in bonfires. A view of an artist can change in a New York Minute (Thanks Mr. Henley).

Here is Madonn'a vocal range

 

That was great, thanks. Reminds me of her Edge of Glory solo on her Thanksgiving special 2 yr ago^, posted on September 7, 2014 at 08:12:33
Road Warrior
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----------------------

"E Burres Stigano?"


 

Yep loved it. Nt, posted on September 7, 2014 at 09:04:32
G Squared
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 Nt
Gsquared

 

2.5 is impressive in my book... heck, 88 keys is a little over 7 octave... many GREAT singers are unknown~nT, posted on September 7, 2014 at 09:37:59
Cleantimestream
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 ~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

What was Tiny Tim's range?, posted on September 7, 2014 at 09:51:03
budget fi
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 His speaking voice was pretty deep. Don't mean nuthin'

 

RE: What was Tiny Tim's range?, posted on September 7, 2014 at 09:56:02
Cleantimestream
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 Your humor is pure dessication, he sang in falsetto.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 10:34:45
Goober58
 More of the same old from Mr. Bennett -

 

Omigod.., it looks like she's crying..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 10:49:46
genungo
 ... a heart-wrenching performance!

Somehow she reminds me of Barbara Streisand. Maybe it's the size of her nose?

 

RE: To both..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 11:32:48
E-Stat
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 although I actually preferred her voice Pre-Evita where she had a rawer lighter breezier sound.

To each his own. As for me, I prefer her latter work from Ray of Light On the other hand, singers like Carey haven't tried to mimic Madonna's formula.

Gaga's range is 4 octaves

Not according to the same source you used for Madonna found here. I'll edit to your edit. Note the qualifying in that comment. That supposition is not supported elsewhere either.

As for serious range and control, one of my favorites from high school days is Annie Haslam from the British band Renaissance who has a five octave voice. She can hold a stratospheric note forever...


 

RE: Omigod.., it looks like she's crying..., posted on September 7, 2014 at 13:24:31
Todd Krieger
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 "Somehow she reminds me of Barbara Streisand."

For how much I don't like Streisand, at least she isn't phony.......

 

Those might be real tears, who knows? (nt, posted on September 7, 2014 at 13:57:58
genungo
 .

 

Lady Gaga is more talented than most singers in the pop music industry, posted on September 7, 2014 at 14:28:05
Jay Buridan
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 IMHO

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

That Doesn't Say Much..........., posted on September 7, 2014 at 17:42:45
Todd Krieger
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 Like most modern pop singers, without Auto-Tune, she'd be nothing.

Lady Gaga does have talent..... But as an actress and maybe a choreographer..... I'll say it was those talents that got her where she is today. She'd probably do well on Broadway or in Hollywood.

 

The Mistake in Claims of Octave Singing Range....., posted on September 7, 2014 at 19:05:49
Todd Krieger
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 Whenever I see claims of singing range as 4 octaves or more, the FOS alarm goes off........

When one claims a four-octave range, he/she often ignores the fact that hitting the same note over four octaves is actually a three-octave range. (It's like that old fence math problem: If posts are 10 feet apart, how long would a fence be with 10 posts. The answer is NOT 100 feet. It's 90 feet.)

Think about it, even a three octave range is rare with singers..... Amongst the males, the only one I can think of is maybe Paul McCartney...... Amongst the females, Mariah Carey is three octaves.

 

Before she was "Lady Gaga", posted on September 7, 2014 at 20:54:05
Jon Risch
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 She was born Stefani Germanotta, and was a classically trained musician.

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SagYW3-KNyc

If the link doesn't work, try going to youtube and typing in her real name and the word piano, the video will be the first one to come up, titled:
"Stefani Germanotta (Lady Gaga) - Captivated Live 2005".






Jon Risch

 

Thanks John..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 01:25:35
RGA
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 I have seen that before but it's nice to see.

I think the point of my post got a little side tracked where it turned into talent evaluation night on audioasylum.

People will like or dislike a given singer - and it may or may not have anything to do with their ability to sing. Mariah Carey has a near operatic voice and I respect the voice a lot but objectively weaker singers like Madonna, Ellie Goulding, or Lady Gaga has a better shot at making it onto my playlist.

Axl Rose was voted by some as the best Male Vocalist because of an impressive 5 octave range but I know a lot of people who view his voice as nails on a chalkboard.

I don't think range is all that import - it's kind of what you do with it and the song you sing. Opera singers have excellent voices but when you know what the translation is and you listen to them bellowing away with such silly translated lyrics in often absurd stories it's real tough for me to dump on pop song lyrics.

I still wouldn't consider Lady Gaga to have a "great voice" - it's "good" but I would not buy an album based on the vocal talent in the same way I would buy an Eva Cassidy on vocal talent. Cassidy could sing the phone book and I'd probably buy the album.

The main point was that I felt it is nice to see a major pop star - arguably the biggest female pop star do something quite a lot different and take some risk doing it because now it will be about her voice and not the costumes and videos and pyrotechnics. It will be about the voice and interpretation of Jazz standards. I like the fact that she will put her neck out there and TRY to do something different. Regardless how it pans out critically or commercially I respect her for doing this when she is still on top and still selling out every show worldwide. It puts a genre of music on the map for a lot of people. More-so, it isn't some collaboration with a 25 year old male Jazz singer of some current fame - it's a pairing to a non sex symbol 87 year old man that most of Gaga's fan base probably doesn't know exists.

As an aside - A list of male and female singers by vocal range past and present

 

RE: Thanks John..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 03:36:57
sudz1234@yahoo.com
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 Eva Cassidy in death could run circles around Gaga in life. To bring up Gaga in the same sentence as Cassidy is disrespectful.

 

The lady can sing, posted on September 8, 2014 at 05:24:47
reuben
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 regards,

-reub

Dark energy? Ridiculous!
We live in an electric universe.

 

IMHO she's at least as talented an entertainer as she is a singer., posted on September 8, 2014 at 06:56:51
Goober58
 There's often much more to being a pop star than just one's ability to sing or write songs. Matter of fact I would suggest that is what is wrong with the music industry. Some of course would argue that is exactly what is right with it.


 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 08:05:06
RGA
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 That was painful.

Still - I heard Cyndi Lauper live when she opened for Tina Turner many years back (before autotune was invented) and she sounded surprisingly good live.

I found her to sound much better live than I've heard on her albums which surprised me.

 

RE: Before she was "Lady Gaga", posted on September 8, 2014 at 09:02:56
Old SteveA
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 Hmm... Did anyone else notice that the piano she was playing in that video sounded like it
"might" have had a cracked hammer shaft in one of the registers ?

Sorry, I can't help making comments about pianos after spending years around a Piano Rebuilder's shop & learning what is implied when a Piano Tech says "Good enough for Jazz"; They're saying what is the "generally" considered acceptable for use "could" use a bit
more work before the instrument is what it should sound like.

(Just find a Piano with numerous cracked hammer shafts & you have an instant "Honkey Tonk" piano)

 

Auto tune..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 09:20:47
RGA
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 I sort of get why it's use to get a consistent package. The problem is that it seems to make artists sound the same across each individual song on their own albums but also a homogenous sound across artists.

I remember listening to Ellie Goulding's CD version of a song and then hearing her live without auto tuning and I can barely listen to the CD versions with copious amounts of autotune. But live she doesn't use it. Ellie has a unique voice (love it or hate it) but I'd rather hear it than some digitized sameness. I wish these artists would give you two CD's - with and without the processing.

Indeed, in Ellie's case I'd far rather hear pretty much every song she does with her and one instrument. I can't say she has a good voice but it's certainly well off the beaten path of mainstream singers and for whatever reason the whispy quality where it seems to be just barely holding together and about to break - manages not to.

Here is the autotune version of a Lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqLGuRX_nLM

No autotune version of Lights and "The Writer".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTyL7p0E0Fk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SsLnNazxY0

Here is Sarah McLachlan pre the invention of autotune. You're basically safe with albums purchased before 1997.

 

She has a good voice and intonation, posted on September 8, 2014 at 12:29:33
Jay Buridan
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 Many pop singers can't even sing on key. I don't care so much about the entertainment factor. Even rap, the new minstrel show, provides entertainment to those so inclined to waste their time.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

This does NOT apply to "Lady Gaga," because she is the real thing, but.., posted on September 8, 2014 at 14:11:56
David S.
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 this video will make clear for those out of the loop what "autotune" (or, a REALLY fast sound engineer) does...

 

RE: She has a good voice and intonation, posted on September 8, 2014 at 14:18:03
Goober58
 Sure but I've met people who could sing circles around her who will at best achieve a very low level of local celebrity/fame.

In the big picture she's not a real good singer (don't deny she can sing) - it's her character that brings her fame - most certainly she's risen far beyond her ability to sing.

It's not like the best singing talent rises to the top of the pop charts. If it ever was like that, it was long before I came aware, in the mid 60s.

She's a celebrity who sings. IMO she's as interesting as watching some young actor/actress do gymnastics. I mean for crying out loud MJ does underware commercials. But then again it is what the public adores....

 

FWIW, I don't like pop music, posted on September 8, 2014 at 19:58:44
Jay Buridan
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 For instance, I DVR SNL and fast forward through the musical acts which bore me terribly. IMHO, Gaga has a better voice than most singers in this crap music industry. YMMV.

"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 20:36:34
robert920rogers@gmail.com
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 I love to hear people tell me that something I like
is horrible,but it never changes my mind. I do not know more than
a few Lady Gaga songs,but this is one I like alot.

 

That's hilarious... NT, posted on September 8, 2014 at 20:41:42
RGA
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 NT

 

I like pop/rock music and pretty much agree with what you say, posted on September 8, 2014 at 21:24:18
Goober58
 SNL live musical guest usually are worth of FFing through and if you say Lady GaGa has a better voice than most pop rock singers I agree with you.

Still she can't sing that well and for the most part almost everything about her is ugly. I mean if you want to define pop music as the "celebrities" that usually populate Billboard charts or SNL guest list then yea I agree it's a wretched industry. I haven't done that since the mid-70s and I find tons of great music by new artists these days (most of it not very popular).

Didn't Tony Bennett duet with that tattoed drug addict before she died too? Yea she had a better than most voice too. I'm glad Tony has found a way to keep himself in the press.

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 21:34:19
RGA
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 Thanks for that one. Nothing wrong with her voice there that's for sure.

It's kind of weird really because she writes her own music and lyrics plays the piano, sings and puts on a good show live.

She's the female Elton John/Jerry Lee Lewis of our time.

 

RE: Thanks John..., posted on September 8, 2014 at 21:54:30
Tubegroover
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 Eva Cassidy has been dead for almost 20 years. I don't see how they can remotely be compared and why would anyone would try to, they're so different and I don't think RGA was trying to. Eva was a small time local DC lounge songstress who covered standard pop, country and blues songs who's mild fame came after death. Lady Gaga is a current, original PoP Diva, fashion icon, musician, singer, songwriter and money machine who sure can be fun to watch but not someone you listen to just hear her sing, at least I don't like I do other singers, RGA's point maybe? I don't understand why any of this would be disrespectful to Eva.


Maybe when the duet album with Tony comes out your opinion of her will change a bit, you might be surprised. She's a lot better than you give her credit for even if you don't like her.

 

RE: She has a good voice and intonation, posted on September 8, 2014 at 21:57:51
RGA
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 The problem is rock and pop really aren't about the quality of the singer's voice. Or for that matter how well they play instruments.

Even American Idol has said this to contestants who may have a terrific voice but the wrong image to be able to succeed as a pop artist. Your voice would have to be so above and beyond the rest to be able to make it. The only one I can think of that managed a career by looking like a troll in the world of pop from that show was Kurt Nilsen linked below with Willie Nelson in a duet. You have to be buying the guy for his voice. (sorry Kurt).

You're correct that there are better talents who go under the radar because they don't have the money or the "ins" to have a leg up on their career. Madonna basically brought Burlesque from France into her acts and created a fashion statement. On the other hand she's still going for over 35 years so it's not just about sex appeal and costumes and stunts.

It's about putting out a better pop song that stays in people's heads longer. It's pretty tough not to be at clubs and not hear the song Holiday played - even 30 years on. Similar to AC/DC's Thunderstruck. Can anyone tell me that Brian Johnson is a great vocalist. The guy basically screams every lyric as if his head is about to explode. Yet I can listen to and darn well like AC/DC for whatever strange reason.

More important than a good voice is perhaps a unique voice - like Ellie Goulding or Sade or Cher or Celine Dion. You know instantly who it is - and in a way that may be more important than some largely subjective evaluation of their vocal range.

For instance even the below link - Kurt Nilsen is a terrific singer vocally but does he stand out - is it unique. Willie Nelson arguably isn't remotely in the same league but yet you know his voice - it stands out from the "pleasant" more. Same for a guy like Johnny Cash. Ellie Goulding is a prime example - her voice is likely to be a love it or hate kind of thing.

 

RE: Thanks John..., posted on September 9, 2014 at 00:46:31
RGA
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 Exactly what I said - Eva Cassidy could sing the phone book and I buy her albums because you pays to hear her sing.

With PoP it's about the spectacle and music videos perhaps ended the radio star. With music videos - it is theater - a short film of sorts.

This was the first thing I think I ever say with Gaga and it is a commentary on the pop music scene and the fascination with the stars and how they "stay on top" and indeed the fleeting popularity of the pop diva in general and her own future career in the business.

Pop is about a catchy song, and lots of spectacle. Madonna and Michael Jackson were perfect at this. Lady Gaga is no slouch at it.

And when we talk about singing talent there are not many in the Eva Cassidy class outside of Opera which is kind of love it or hate it.

I mean take some of the biggest artists in rock - does anyone go to see Bob Dylan because he's a great vocalist? Here is my favorite Bob Dylan spoof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H26rfN5H8J0

Gaga and spectacle

 

RE: Thanks John..., posted on September 9, 2014 at 05:25:01
Old SteveA
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 I realize your intention was to be descriptive as possible ,but that analogy was just completely ridiculous.

"Taste" really carries no more importance than it is only someone's subjective opinion of something. While explaining why you do like something may be useful & generate more interest in something,posting "dopey" analogies to describe your feelings are well...pretty dopey if you use "cartoonish or Science Fiction" scenarios to fortify your "opinion".

(What do they say about opinions ?; & even that is subjective !!!)

 

Hilarious +++ (nt), posted on September 9, 2014 at 05:41:16
mcondo
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 x

 

RE: That Doesn't Say Much..........., posted on September 9, 2014 at 06:19:09
Old SteveA
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 Could just be she considers "pop" music to be beneath her musical "skill
set", (which in reality should be beneath anyone who has even the slightest amt of musical sensitivity)

Unfortunately, what the general populace will "accept" as being "viably entertaining" dictates what the rest of us are stuck with.

As I see it we have 2 choices. We can either attempt to raise the "musical expectations" bar within whatever circles we can or stay within our Old School mentallities & shake our heads at "the stuff that people will listen to"

If there was ever a subject that we could all benefit from with some "Brainstorming" on these forums this would be it! (or we could shut our YAPs & adopt the "modern day edited version" of Popeye's Philosophy of "It am what it am")(It's pretty sad when a cartoon saying written well over half a century ago becomes a relevant statement)

 

RE: She has a good voice and intonation, posted on September 9, 2014 at 09:17:22
Goober58
 In a nutshell - I'd much rather hear an ok singer who sounds like they give a shit about the song than some old pro displaying his talent going through the motions. Not much more boring than listening to some hyper-talent show casing his/her abilities. I think this has something to do with why I can't appreciate much jazz (or the post 1971 or so Rolling Stones).

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 9, 2014 at 16:02:23
RGA
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 The first release from Gaga/Bennett and very clearly no auto tune.

It's not too bad. Not Ella but the up tempo version was probably smart to avoid the comparison. It's more in the Doris Day style.

Doris Day version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF3KaHImHu4

Gaga and Bennett (she'd probably be more suited to a smokey song with her deeper voice (something like Fever) that the breezy song but still not too bad.

 

RE: Auto tune..., posted on September 9, 2014 at 18:24:19
Todd Krieger
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 Here is the autotune version of a Lights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqLGuRX_nLM

No autotune version of Lights and "The Writer".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTyL7p0E0Fk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SsLnNazxY0

All of those clips are Auto-Tune'd.......

 

Link Doesn't Work [nt], posted on September 9, 2014 at 18:28:13
Todd Krieger
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Doris Day........... [yt], posted on September 9, 2014 at 18:35:09
Todd Krieger
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 Do you notice anything different on this clip? (Aside from the visual?)

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 9, 2014 at 20:13:28
RGA
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 I'm at work but with the two dollar speakers in my classroom and a rough attempt to level match I'd say your link sound less dynamic and flatter while my link has more range (maybe more noise as well) but that said it could be the people uploading the thing and the awful buzzy amplifier system in my class.

Still based on the $2 speaker and the buzzy amplifier I'm going with the one I linked as sounding better - so it's probably the one auto-tuned right ;)

(fixed the link)

 

Did Tony ever sing a duet with....., posted on September 9, 2014 at 20:57:44
Bill the K
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 Beyonce? Shakira?

Cheers
Bill

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 9, 2014 at 22:26:32
Todd Krieger
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 These two clips could be valuable in regard to learning to recognize Auto-Tune. One clip has it applied, the other does not. It's kind of spooky once the difference is recognized. (This would easily pass an ABX test.)

The one with it applied, you'll notice the voice constantly "locking" on pitch. The other clip does not have this effect.

 

RE: Auto tune..., posted on September 10, 2014 at 03:43:26
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I'm having difficulty hearing it on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOcjeNeaHQg

Can you give me a second count and perhaps a word where it is quite clear there is auto tuning.

The word "Artist" and "Rather" the pitch shifts but it sounds like her voice doing it not an automated sound like in all of the songs in the link below.

At 1:06-1:08 where she sings "Oh but I've Got" is a bit all over the place but it doesn't sound robotic. At 1:55 she goes off pitch which is what autotune should fix but doesn't seem to get fixed to me. At 2:10 it sounds like autotune on the word "plan" but she has a warbly thin waif-like vocal so is it auto-tune making the shift or her warbly voice shifting. But I am not hearing the dead robotic sound on the Writer that I hear in any of the songs below.

For instance this is Ellie Goulding with autotune and with the first 10 seconds it is so patently obvious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8a---YBEc0

But Lights is world's apart from the Writer. I detect the obvious ones with ease (all of the ones in the below link) but apparently I am missing more subtle usages of it. I need more practice apparently.

Although to be honest I have not been necessarily "looking for it" because it's pop and I kind of lower my standards for pop music. Further, over the last decade it has been intentionally used for affect by groups like Daft Punk and even by good singers like Sarah McLachlan where it is used for a very obvious effect. So this may be "training" us over time to accept it as the "norm."

Geez - Take this song by Owl City - the entire thing sounds completely electronic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psuRGfAaju4 although strangely because it is so obvious and so intentional that it doesn't really bug me.

On this website they discuss auto tune and give 10 examples - all of which are very very obvious to me. And it's a pretty good link in general to help people detect it because they are telling you which word to listen for.

The problem is that they are very obvious - you can hear the pitch shift and it sounds robotic and the writer of the article is also correct about which songs are least obvious out of the 10.

What I would like to see is a link with the far more subtle usages to better be able to fine tune the detection. From what I am gathering from you is that it's being used a lot more and in a more subtle manner than I thought.

The robotic nature of Cher's "Believe" is on the obvious end of the spectrum. It's noticeable on Avril's Complicated but far less egregious.

Do you have some examples of where it is done really well and is very subtle? I'd like to work on this to bring my skill level up on it. Also if you have a suggestion of albums that can be purchased on CD with and without auto tune it would help so that I can actually play it over my stereo rather than my rubbish TV speakers that would be a huge help.

I don't care so much that it's used on pop or even rock because as I said the standards are generally already lowered so what's a little more lower.

However it bothers me if it is being used in jazz/folk/adult because you buy these guys/girls mainly for their voice - you buy pop for an overall "sound presentation" which can sound space-age and it doesn't concern me. However I don't want them screwing with Frank Sinatra and I don't want my ear to be DEGRADED by getting used to the pop auto tune to such a degree that I miss it on music that actually counts!

Thanks Todd for your patience. I love Audio Asylum and getting something out of it - even if you have to tell me five times.

 

RE: Did Tony ever sing a duet with....., posted on September 10, 2014 at 06:18:26
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I think plenty of people may like someone and want to do a song or two together. I think you see oddball match-ups all over the place. Aerosmith and RUN D.M.C. and that's not even to mention bands like Nightwish that took an opera singer and had her head a heavy metal band.

Here is a review of Bennett's last Duets album where the reviewer liked Bennett with Gaga the best. This may explain why he's doing an entire duet album with her.

But it may also be as simple as the crazy idea that they could actually LIKE each other. Unlike Madonna who always seems like a total bitch - Lady Gaga seems like a nice girl. Oddball creative type yes, but she seems good to her fanbase and in interviews comes off respectful. It was a small thing but in the interview with Bennett she corrected the interviewer that his name, not hers, should be mentioned first. And Bennett doesn't need the cash - he's not wasting an album on someone he dislikes or thinks is a talentless hack. Maybe a song or two but an entire album. Doubt it.

I think it's difficult to disassociate oneself from their personal feelings on the individual. If you think Gaga's a weirdo who is a pre-packaged, pre-sold gimmick and sell-out who is all spectacle and hype then it really doesn't matter what she does the bias against her will be there. Further to some, anything that is popular must be bad. Not that anything that is popular is always good but occasionally the stars do align and things that are popular are good (like Morphine and the Margarita).

If Gaga can bring younger people to Jazz then it's a benefit - I am so sick of seeing stores with wall to wall crap and 25 Jazz CDs on a shelf. Since school have all lost music programs (and besides who listens to fuddy duddy teachers anyway). If Gaga or anyone with idol star power gets onto something the followers follow it. They follow the fashion, the food, the charities of their heroes so why not also follow the music? When I was a kid every second girls had Madonna's fishnet gloves, cross medallions and many even put the pimple on their face. So if it's Gaga's love of jazz that gets them to listen to it it's good for jazz whether she is any good at it or not. And she'll be at least decent I am sure.

Lots of young people like 70s 80s rock and pop and metal. The kinder and gentler and soulful music of the 50s and 60s I want back (and it was before my time).

I talked to James Darren for a bit in August who is still performing in Vegas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ1MI1zPJvY and we talked a bit about the staying power but a grayer audience. But we'll get 500,000,000+ hits for Gangnam Style and 20,000 for James Darren. The world has already ended in my view - we're all just zombies waiting for extinction.

If nothing else Gaga has good taste in music - she actually LIKES jazz and wants to sing it. So she's already about 10,000% better than most every other pop artist going.

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 10, 2014 at 07:15:31
Rob Doorack
Audiophile

Posts: 5378
Joined: May 26, 2000
 Much more important that Gaga's use of Autotune is her refusal to lip sync to recorded tracks in live performances. She was quite vehement about it in her first interview with Howard Stern from a couple of years ago. Many pop singers lip sync in live shows now because their audience expects them to do vigorous dancing while singing, "just like they do in the video." Gaga said that the practice was cheating the audience.




 

RE: Did Tony ever sing a duet with....., posted on September 10, 2014 at 08:16:12
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 RGA, thanks for that nice reply. In fact Lady Gaga is a favorite of mine. Some of my friends laugh out loud when I say that. I tell them they should lidten to her carefully. Her duet singing is exemplary. Actually, she floored a hundred thousand Hindi music lovers when she performed at a stadium in New Delhi.

Regards
Bill

 

RE: Did Tony ever sing a duet with....., posted on September 11, 2014 at 07:14:58
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Well you can show your friends this

Tony Bennett "TB: The first thing I said was, “Let’s do an album together.” And she said, “Okay.” That quick. I just love what she did on this album. She’s up there with Ella Fitzgerald, who was the greatest singer in the world."

Okay that's a big reach but still - even if he's 88 and a bit deaf and a bit senile - he's probably more reliable than peanut gallery audiophiles (me included) on these forums so there is that! :)

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 11, 2014 at 08:01:01
IEaudiodude
Audiophile

Posts: 2814
Location: So Cal
Joined: February 11, 2010
 I was reading the posts about Lady Ga Ga and her voice,rather than debate with everyone about her style her voice, her range and talent with or without Auto-Tune and her choices of strange attire......... I decided to just listen to on of my daughters "Pink" CD's. I like her voice much better than Ga Ga's anyway. Probably because my daughter has played it so much. Then of course since I started listening to her I will have to put on the Dana Owens CD, then Susan Tedeschi, then etc. etc. etc. Pretty soon my honey-doo list will be shot to hell, thanks guys! :^)
Photobucket

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 11, 2014 at 20:50:22
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 "Much more important that Gaga's use of Autotune is her refusal to lip sync to recorded tracks in live performances."

There are numerous clips showing the contrary.... Most notably whenever she fell on stage while "singing".... If you heard just the audio, you wouldn't even know that she fell. (The funny thing is there are a few instances where the guitarists run over to shield her from the audience, to obscure any signs of something fishy going on.)

"She was quite vehement about it in her first interview with Howard Stern from a couple of years ago. Many pop singers lip sync in live shows now because their audience expects them to do vigorous dancing while singing, 'just like they do in the video.' Gaga said that the practice was cheating the audience."

It's no different from her claiming not to use Auto-Tune....

The telltale sign of a singer lip-syncing on stage is the total lack of vocal improvisation. The song is "sung" exactly the same way from show to show to show. (It's almost impossible to do that actually singing, even if one tries.) Try to find Gaga improvising her singing at any live show.

 

RE: Did Tony ever sing a duet with....., posted on September 11, 2014 at 21:35:11
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8386
Joined: June 3, 2006
 RGA

Lady is such a great singer. But i feel she has hurt herself with too much gimmicks and costumes, an image too deeply etched, its hard to remove. Whenever I say she is a great singer, the guys start talking about Halloween.

I listened to the Duets for long last two days. I still consider Amy Winehouse the most talented natural singer, like my great favorite Janis. What a pity.

It may be available in HK, Sufi songs in Urdu by Abida Parveen. The CDs are Indian production. Outstanding singing. It doesnt matter to me that I dont know Urdu but the music and the singing are more than enough.

Best Regards
Bill

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 12, 2014 at 09:27:26
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 This thread is getting me to listen to more Lady Gaga than I have since she came out I think. LOL

Rob - Not only does she sing it live (and very differently) she changes her dance routines as well.

Here are five live performances of Bad Romance - all are completely different vocally which is fairly obvious within the first minute of each one. And all are different than the show I saw her at in Las Vegas. And I only chose the first 5 that came up - there many others but I am too tired to post but I would bet each of those are different again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyJFmGWjBYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6cBsV35T0w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfAaM57N0SA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXm6_v0rMCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUrLSRxuDoU

I think what Todd may be taking exception to is the fact that the chorus is overlayed. For instance in the first link above the chorus in the background is recorded and Gaga comes in and out around the pre-recorded chorus. The third link she sings the chorus because there is virtually no movement to the number. Lip syncing is pretending to sing the overlayed backing track which she doesn't do. When the chorus is being played her lips aren't moving and in some instances she was talking to the audience.

I could see some having issue with this of course. I don't because of the high movement factor due to the dance numbers that pre-recorded chorus (back tracks for parts of the songs) lets the dancers get into position and she still sings all of the stable parts. This is why at some shows you can see different parts of the song are backing tracks. It's really common for any pop singers with large dance numbers. But what is patently clear is that all five videos are very different in the way she sings them. And in the video she falls - that too is the chorus of that song. Some fans will defend her to death and non fans will rip her to death on this issue.

I am in the middle. I understand the back track for the dance numbers and can excuse it in part - but I also understand why people would rip her for it. I think Gaga should have backing SINGERS not a a backing track layed down. Have the back-up singers sing the chorus so that you can avoid the whole argument and give some singers a job/career in music than a cd player. Have two singers at the corner of the stage singing the bits gaga can;t sing while jumping around the stage. So this irritates me about such performances. Someone, whether Gaga or a back-up singer should be singing the thing - not recordings being played. And it's not like she can't afford it.


Now aside from the dance music and take away the dance number stuff from the discussion and go to girl at a piano and all of these are completely different from each other in pace rhythm and timing and probably her best song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT8lp-U7hFk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2y2PiEh1U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J3qy0UXraI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFZWtPGmnVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cQOpURbqgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vek6znZEWY4

I think she proves she can sing. That's established regardless of the Poker Face and Bad Romance overlayed back-up. That can be fairly debated as a side issue I think. But she is not just a studio created voice and there is no denying that fact.

And this is Poker Face completely different than any album or most any other live version - she constantly changes it up. So that argument against her is purely lazy. Poker Face live acoustic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R_OHpMbQVM

This is probably the best version of speechless

 

RE: I'm giving props to Lady Gaga..., posted on September 14, 2014 at 02:45:57
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 Pink.... Auto-Tuned but not lip-sync'ed.... At least in this performance.

The music, overall, isn't much better..... A typical modern act that is lacking in a polyrhythmic element.... You hear one song, you've heard them all.

 

On point RGA ... tis why am still reaching for Ella... what a voice~nT, posted on September 14, 2014 at 07:49:07
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 ~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: On point RGA ... tis why am still reaching for Ella... what a voice~nT, posted on September 15, 2014 at 03:17:48
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I do as well. But for me I keep searching and wanting to listen to new artists. Bring something different to the table.

It's like when people compare covers (I did the same) and people argue over which one is best. Gee is everything a competition. I can like a Frank Sinatra and a James Darren version of a song (listening to James as I type this). I can Like Ella as well as a Sophie Milman cover of it. I may like the Ella version of it more but to be fair it's probably because I am used to the version.

I don't mind people who dump on every female pop singer but I wish they would provide 5 alternates who:
1) they think are "good singers"
2) are still breathing
3) have put out an album in the last 5 years

 

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