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A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith

76.103.168.66
Posted on July 16, 2014 at 16:29:51
jnr
Reviewer

Posts: 2164
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: April 5, 2000
 I was a customer of Jim's back when he had his retail shop. I was young and had very little money and he always treated me like was a real high end customer. He sold me my first Linn, not only did he set it up for me, but he taught me much of what I know about turntable setup. Every dealer,importer, and manufacturer should read this and take it to heart. Every customer should expect this from a brick and mortar dealer.
theaudiobeatnik.com

 

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RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 16, 2014 at 17:22:49
Schlep
Audiophile

Posts: 289
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined: April 24, 2007
 jnr -

You are correct, this is a 'must read', for both customers and retailers. I read this (I believe) in Jim's book. It really puts things in perspective. I suspect the vast majority of dealers are 'performing' between 1 and 5 on Jim's scale.

Thanks for posting it.


Craig

 

my dealer is UPS, posted on July 16, 2014 at 17:30:33
bullethead
 Bob has got some equipment for sale.

...

Newspapers are doing bad too... Just saying, also the Central banks have invested in the equities markets...

Every time I went to a dealer I was treated like shit. Online dealers give me what I want without the b.s. I don't have to make believe I am rich to buy a $3k amp, or $6k speakers.

 

RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 16, 2014 at 17:43:00
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15524
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
 Thanks! for sharing.

 

sorry you stated "high end" my bad..., posted on July 16, 2014 at 17:46:38
bullethead
 If I was spending over $100k on something I would expect more. I am fine with my situation though. High end you must be talking about the .01% sorry I misread :-$

 

"most responsible" how incredibly self-serving. Not to mention......, posted on July 16, 2014 at 19:43:44
viridian
 just completely wrong.

Did it ever occur to him that the high end companies are building gear that the broader market doesn't want? For that matter, that the audiophile community doesn't even want? Most of it becoming ever more corpulent and ugly as the prices skyrocket and the user interfaces become needlessly complex rather than more intuitive.

Is he aware of the changes in our lifestyles brought on by the revolution in mobile devices? Changes in the way that we live our lives? The high end might take a lesson from Apple, if not Bose.

No matter how caring and sensitive the gear jockey at the high end hut is, for the most part, he is selling the past. A past that ever fewer people want. The Maytag repairman of yore has become the Krell salesman of today.

 

Why the bitterness?, posted on July 16, 2014 at 20:21:40
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37650
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Did some dealer beat you up as a kid?

 

I wonder the cost of a system that "allows" the dealer to provide the services described..., posted on July 16, 2014 at 20:25:00
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12381
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 ...assuming they're included in the deal as implied? Bet the cutoff is astronomical.

 

How about a number eleven? , posted on July 16, 2014 at 20:37:41
three_sox
 11/ A dealer who comes to your home to listen to your system and concludes nothing needs changing, upgrading or needs to be purchased.

d:o)

Good dealers are gold.

Their numbers might be diminishing but there are always good dealers to be found.

 

To continue to ascribe the ills of the high end to the......, posted on July 16, 2014 at 20:56:32
viridian
 wrong things will continue to hold back the hobby. I think that the problem does not lie solely, or even principally, with dealers; you are welcome to the opposing opinion. And yes, I was brutally beaten by a Sansui dealer in my formative years. Feel like a big man now?

 

RE: I wonder the cost of a system that "allows" the dealer to provide the services described..., posted on July 16, 2014 at 21:05:29
jnr
Reviewer

Posts: 2164
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Well, back then it I know a Linn/Naim system with the little Linn Kans got you a really fine treatment from Jim when he was in Birmingham.
theaudiobeatnik.com

 

No wonder, too, if #11 occurs much. nt, posted on July 17, 2014 at 10:44:35
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 d

 

Why either/or? Someone is buying the expensive stuff or, as has been here pointed out, it wouldn't be, posted on July 17, 2014 at 10:54:26
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 manufactured by so many competing companies, world-wide.
That said, I share your frustration at the lack of high-end product available for easy computer/iPOD usage, the lack of marketing to younger folks. The success of Beat headphones is a prime example of how to market, albeit an inferior product.

 

I'd guess $10K/equivalent hour (nt), posted on July 17, 2014 at 11:25:59
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12381
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001

 

Bet the cutoff is astronomical., posted on July 17, 2014 at 13:55:53
Chip647
Audiophile

Posts: 2652
Location: The South
Joined: December 24, 2012
 Yes, as compared to sitting on a stool for hours on end ignoring customers while surfing the internet...

 

RE: Responses, posted on July 17, 2014 at 14:05:58
BigguyinATL
Manufacturer

Posts: 3475
Joined: April 10, 2002
 (1) A standard retail shop will probably help you load your purchase in your vehicle. "I can carry stuff out on my own - but any good salesman (with any product - but especially a luxury product like hi-fi gear will be more successful building a relationship with his "Clients"

(2) Of those dealers, an even better one will offer to deliver it.
(3) Of those dealers, an even better one would offer to hook it up.
35 years ago and earlier I was an audio sales person - and often ended up doing 2&3 with even pedestrian (Pioneer/Garrard/Advent) customers for a tip or a fee or just for free (b/c the girl was good looking or maybe had friends that might be)

(4) Of those dealers, an even better one would have come to your home and listened with you to your current system first, before recommending any costly new component.
(5) Of those dealers, an even better one – upon listening to your system – can easily hear where your systems’ issues are.

4&5 This a dealer you should never do - the ability of a stereo system to succeed to create the illusion of playback accuracy etc. is dependent on the confidence the owner has in his system to do so. By criticizing the system the dealer adds doubt. Instead the dealer, or you if you are visiting a friends house, should be like a therapist - asking only "What do or don't you like about the sound (or looks or operation) of your system?" Besides a dealer and everyone is biased to their own preconceptions and could easily steer someone the wrong way.

(6) Of those dealers, an even better one will actually know what to do to correct your system’s shortcomings.
Based on the clients observation not their own.

(7) Of those dealers, an even better one will suggest a “game plan” or road map to successfully overcome any issues your system may have.

(8) Of those dealers, an even better one would then make adjustments in keeping with the road map. These adjustments may include your purchase and his installation of a new component, and simultaneous voicing of your system; or the adjustments may simply be a voicing of your existing system.

(9) Of those dealers, an even better one would ask you to be present to observe and to listen to any differences as your system is being voiced.

7,8&9 (I just hate the whole concept of "Voicing" A system) ir assumes way too much, or it used the term "Voicing" as a description of "Coloring", or adjusting the sound - and 90% of that is the source material - what happens in production of the music.) If you want to hire an acoustical consultant to set up your room and equipment to optimize the performance of the system you can do that. That is not an equipment dealers responsibility.

(10) Of those dealers, an even better one will stay there to get your system right, no matter how long it takes. Getting your system right is defined as when he is satisfied that he’s accomplished his goal – and when you are delighted with the improvements. If he’s good, you’ll be happy long before he is.

Yeah just a little arrogant here - No dealer wears the ears of of his Client; Or should assume that they can.
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius

 

Some of the responses here have just been wierd to me, had you rather . . ., posted on July 17, 2014 at 14:08:18
jnr
Reviewer

Posts: 2164
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: April 5, 2000
 have a dealer who sits in a chair and acts like they doesn't care about you unless you and then doesn't go the extra miles to be sure you get what you need and to be sure you're getting the best out of what they sell you.

I still know dealers who do these things. The first one that comes to mind is Matt at Pitch Perfect Audio. I have known him to travel out of state to deliver a system and see it is set up right.

My only real point is that if highend dealers, importers, and manufacturers want to sell from Brick and Mortan location instead of the internet they should offer something worth the price, not just the equipment.
theaudiobeatnik.com

 

By the way Jim hasn't had a retail shop in years and I have no relationship with Jim other than as a . . ., posted on July 17, 2014 at 14:11:35
jnr
Reviewer

Posts: 2164
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Joined: April 5, 2000
 customer many years ago.
theaudiobeatnik.com

 

RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 17, 2014 at 16:31:52
Inmate51
 No offense intended, but there is nothing about hi-fi shops which is "must read" material.

"Retail sales", on the other hand,...

;)

 

I'm not sure that the Beats cans are an inferior product ......, posted on July 17, 2014 at 19:28:03
viridian
 For sound quality,sure. But it's not a product about sound, where it fails, but it is about fashion where it succeeds wildly.

The Michael Graves tea pot was barely functional as a tea pot but it was the iconic home accessory of its time.

 

Hey, this is an audio, not a fashion, site! nt, posted on July 17, 2014 at 21:25:03
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 65782
Location: Kansas City, KS
Joined: April 9, 2006
 d

 

At my age I get confused easily! Nt, posted on July 18, 2014 at 09:18:25
viridian
 Nt

 

RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 20, 2014 at 08:39:17
Jwm
Audiophile

Posts: 1322
Joined: April 16, 2002
 First of all his message is outdated. Speakers today are so heavy no one can possible move these around like they use to be. One could put casters on them, but then that really lowers the over all sound of the speaker. I agree dealers should carry lines that they really stand by and don't carry the greatest of the month club. I would be pissed if I bought a 50,000 speaker like a Rockport and find my dealer dropped them for Magico since this is what the magazines like. I know many dealers that do this. Many dealers offer set up and install but you have to pay for this.

 

RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 20, 2014 at 17:25:52
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 15167
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 That is a good point about constancy. I like it that dealers and manufacturers support each other and that, hopefully, the dealer has chosen what they believe are good value in their respective market.

I can order from the internet (and do) but I take my chances. I would expect dealers to carry good sounding system combinations.

 

The "Good Guys" Still do this ...., posted on July 21, 2014 at 08:20:01
Bromo33333
Audiophile

Posts: 3502
Location: Ipswich, MA
Joined: May 4, 2004
 I have saved/avoided wasting a lot of money by working closely with a dealer that I trust. I cannot emphasize the value in it enough. I have bought a combination of used and new stuff through a dealer as we were trying to get the sound "just right" and within our budget.

The very best one, had come over to the house to help set things up, tune things in, and help tweak things, too. Actually feels like a "friend of the family" at this point.


====
"You are precisely as big as what you love and precisely as small as what you allow to annoy you." ~ R A Wilson

 

RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 23, 2014 at 10:49:05
jtycho
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: philadelphia
Joined: December 10, 2007
 This is kind of unrelated but it is an extremely funny dealer experience. I called a well known dealer in NYC, I told him I was interested in one of his turntable brands. He said "that's the best table under $10,000." I then told him another table I was considering. His response: "oh I hear that's a good table, haven't heard it though." At that point I got off the phone as quickly as possible. What are we dealing with, used car salesmen? Ugh.

 

RE: A must read about brick and mortar dealers by Jim Smith, posted on July 23, 2014 at 17:30:53
michaelhigh
Audiophile

Posts: 839
Location: midwest
Joined: August 18, 2010
 I've had quite a few retail sales positions in my working days, and back then (70's-80's), I worked in a men's wear store my father managed. He always taught me to sell clothes that fit the customer (correct size for his stature as well as his lifestyle), and to compliment the customer on how well the clothes fit. Then Custy could decide if it was because of my expertise, or as a result of his own perception of his own good taste. The best salesmen can suspend disbelief that there's any difference between the two!

 

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