What Purchase Was Your Biggest Waste of Money?

An award winning amp, (383), that didn't sound like it my system. I liked the usability of the thing, but the sound never delivered any where near its cost.......

The problem of leisure, what to do for pleasure. Ideal love a new purchase, a market of the senses. Dream of the perfect life.

Yes, my 80s CD set, posted on May 4, 2007 at 17:18:48
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46277 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I have an 80's CD set I bought from some late night TV commercial. The sonics are just horrid!

Philips DVD-R 75, posted on May 4, 2007 at 18:10:35

docw
Audiophile

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Location: So. California
Joined: July 23, 2004
Contributor
Since: November 29, 2004

got about $300 on warranty exchange credit @ BB for a JVC S-VHS unit, simple fix, but they "junked" it.

Got this as an open box unit with remote to process my VCR's and home hi 8 video and regular 8 materials, works OK for simple dvd and cd playing but the recording is problematic, and despite many efforts, there is no solution for many issues. Gave up on it's use practically speaking, but the Pioneer universal DV-47Ai plays the dvd discs it makes. Every other unit, incl. computers, balks and spits the discs out.

Sony SL-2700 Beta Hi-Fi, posted on May 4, 2007 at 18:20:59

Road Warrior
Audiophile

Posts: 21653
Location: Dallas
Joined: August 31, 2004

Top of the line first generation Hi FI VCR. The salesmen said wait, a year from now VHS will have a competitor to it. Much cheaper.

No, gotta have gotta have gotta have, per Stereo Review.

Great deck, but $1,199 mail order? In 1984(???). Wife still pissed. It sits at the bottom of my HT equipment rack, not plugged in, staring at me, mocking me.....

"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"

Re: Sony SL-2700 Beta Hi-Fi, posted on May 4, 2007 at 19:27:50
SteveBrown Audiophile Posts: 2454 Location: Portland, OR Joined: November 14, 2002	Well I was in the same camp and I have to say, Beta was the best format -- it wasn't a bad purchase, it was a bad market.

Not audio, but... a Nikon N-80..., posted on May 4, 2007 at 19:34:15

Jimmy C.

...when it first came out. Not cheap.

Thought my wife was going to be into taking pix, not so. I think there is about 16 pix on it, not even one roll.

Let's add insult to injury, she already had a pretty nice Pentax... I didn't even know. Both cameras NEVER get used.

Oh, well... not like it's really important...

$150 for a Robyn T240D, posted on May 4, 2007 at 20:30:13

REL54
Audiophile

Posts: 1944
Location: Virginia Coast
Joined: January 3, 2003

that turned out to be non-working even though the seller said that it worked "great" when grandpappy put it in the closet a few years back.

The PLL chip is dead and they are impossible to find.

curses, foiled again,
grumble grumble

roN

JBL "Music One" Speakers, posted on May 4, 2007 at 20:46:00

Big Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 2675
Location: Tucson, AZ
Joined: March 18, 2002

The JBLs were a four-speaker set, with two cheap-ass tweeters and two small ported subs designed to fit in a corner (quarter-round cross section). You wired them up by connecting one woofer and one tweeter to a small terminal strip. This in turn was connected to the your amp, one per side. The resulting sound was godawful, with no midrange and a boomy, hollow midbass. The tweeters died quickly, and I kept the subs a while longer before ditching them. This was probably the worst product JBL ever sold!

"Music is the medicine of a troubled mind." -- Walter Haddon, 1567

A bunch of 1-hit CD's...(nt), posted on May 4, 2007 at 20:50:59
cdb Audiophile Posts: 2948 Joined: April 6, 2001	.

Sony DVP 9000ES (DVD/CD/SACD Player), posted on May 4, 2007 at 20:55:18

Raiderman
Audiophile

Posts: 2129
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Joined: March 14, 2003

Luckily, I bought this used for around $500. (If I have paid full $1,500.00 retail, I would have been really pissed off).

While this cdp was better on Redbook CD than my old Sony cdp (an old Sony 707ESD CD player), barely, it was not really worth the price, IMHO. (The Sony 707ESD was a better transport, IMHO, although the 9000ES was pretty good-probably it lone good point.) The DAC on the 9000ES was no where near state of the art for its' time period (2002 or so), as opposed to the older Sony, which was pretty darn good for 1989 technology.

When I upgraded to the Resolution Audio Opus 21, it so clearly beat the pants off the 9000ES, it was truly amazing. (The Redbook on the Opus 21 is much better than the SACD on the 9000ES even.)

I still own the Sony 9000ES so I can play the occasional SACD, but I was so thoroughly displeased with it, that I stopped collecting SACD early on because it just did not sound that great. (I guess maybe I should be happy about that now, given the state of SACD's stagnation in terms of its' catalog.)

A distant second would be my Benz Micro Glider II, which I initially liked, but finally determined was a bit too analytical for my tastes. (However, as my first MC cartridge, it did give me a good taste of what a decent MC cartridge could do. So for that, I don't criticize it too harshly. I will just chalk up my displeasure to preferring a different type of sound in MC cartridges.)

My two cents worth.

ez, posted on May 4, 2007 at 22:01:28
Green Lantern Audiophile Posts: 16952 Location: San Diego, Ca Joined: November 12, 2002 Contributor Since: June 17, 2003	Bose 901 series IV speakers 1983. Still have the reciept from when I was stationed in Japan. I remember making around $300 week; and noting the multiple payments I made having them on lay away. The hardest part was convincing myself they sounded good for the money ($1500). Ignorance is bliss. "Live life as if you'll die tomorrow... Learn life as if you'll live forever..." -Gandhi

Re: Sony SL-2700 Beta Hi-Fi, posted on May 4, 2007 at 22:33:31

Vic D

I've never seen any VHS deck that even came close to that video quality. The problem with Beta was Sony. They had the four cassette changer for that product and did nothing to market it.

It was butt expensive. Retailing for $1500 Macy's had it on continual sale for $1499. I found mine at a Macy's warehouse for $680, still expensive.

NAD, posted on May 4, 2007 at 22:36:57

blackwax@mac.com
Industry Professional

Posts: 621
Location: Central Arkansas
Joined: January 10, 2006

NAD 2200PE or 5240 CDP

both total crap.

I think he meant either, posted on May 4, 2007 at 22:53:01

J.Mac
Audiophile

Posts: 3553
Location: Colorado
Joined: November 6, 2002

music recorded in the 80s

CDs mastered and sold in the 80s.

I'd agree with the latter, with a few exceptions. They seemed to begin getting better at CD mastering right around 1988/89.

Jan Allaerts Phono Cartridge....., posted on May 4, 2007 at 23:53:16

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

Won't state the details, but I bought the cartridge new, it was a lemon, didn't play it that much, had it sent overseas for repair, and ultimately sold it at a huge discount. And then had to reimburse the buyer even more after he claimed the cartridge I sold him logged over 3000 hours of play time and had shorted coils.... (I don't think I played it more than 75 hours.)

Along with the Audiolab 8000T tuner, it was my worst audio nightmare.

From a purely sonic standpoint, my biggest waste of money was for a BEL 1001 MkII amplifier. Sounded worse than an Onkyo TX-8500 receiver (amp section) I had at the time.

Tie - VTL 7.5 and Cary 500MB's, posted on May 5, 2007 at 00:41:19

Shane from AUS
Audiophile

Posts: 1669
Location: Sydney
Joined: December 26, 2000

use an amp with gain of more than 28db the VTL would hiss like a banshee. After several complaints to Luke Manley and Luke happily shoving his head in the sand and stating that I was the only one who had ever complained. think not. I feel somewhat justified as VTL have completely redisigned the gain stage around the 12au7 and much lower gain.

Cary500MB's. Pathetic quality control in using 220 vlt spec transformers for a 240vlt country. Amps noisy as hell. Got a brand new one with correct tranformers and the sound had changed for the worse and still was quite noisy.

More than happy with my SS Mac C-46 pre and monoblock tubes 2XMC2102's. Switch on each and every time with, quiet as a tomb and musical as hell. Off the audiophile merry go round

I haven't heard the NAD but I'll take your word for it, posted on May 5, 2007 at 01:46:38
plantsman Audiophile Posts: 4792 Location: Maine Joined: April 4, 2002	The other three I have heard and agree 100%.

Re: What Purchase Was Your Biggest Waste of Money?, posted on May 5, 2007 at 05:19:40
Rudy Audiophile Posts: 311 Location: New York Joined: October 28, 1999	B&W tower 540 (? model) tower speakers. Absolutely awful speakers, woofer would rub at resonance point, vibrate and make ungodly noise purchased early 90s. Thank goodness, I got rid of them a long time ago!!!!!!

Re: A few but the topper: Levinson 383 Integrated Amp, posted on May 5, 2007 at 05:22:18

the roofman
Audiophile

Posts: 365
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: July 12, 2005

I had a Levinson 383 too. Very unreliable. Kept getting "High Line" errors. About $900 (plus shipping both ways) a pop to repair from our friends at Harman. Then it failed again, less than a year later!

I have had 6 pieces from Levinson over the years and 5 have failed - two failed twice! Never again will I darken their door. I am in a Levinson free zone :-)

Any Grado Cartridge (nt), posted on May 5, 2007 at 05:37:42
Fishcat1 Audiophile Posts: 111 Location: MI, USA Joined: June 21, 2004	NT

all my martin logans etc CLS2Z, posted on May 5, 2007 at 05:48:14

Kloss

Decents where to costly for performance given quests where ok but I got sick of them fast request same again good for short listens owned most all logan models only one that I dont feel was a bad purchase was the cls2z that I purchased new used for 2 years and enjoyed most of my time with them.I like a few things about electrostatics owned other brands but since going hi-eff I feel like I was take in for a costly ride with the logans and gear they needed to perform best, another reason I purchased so many logans was at my dealer and friends shop ML was the best sounding loudspeakers he cared no other shops had anything else of interest to me.So sure am glad the internet saved me from that.YMMV

Re: JBL "Music One" Speakers, posted on May 5, 2007 at 06:08:12

yotacowboy
Audiophile

Posts: 169
Joined: November 11, 2004

HA!!! The JBL Music One system was given to me as a gift before I went off to college... I had them plugged into an Aiwa mini-system. Holy crap they sounded bad! Ended up running the external crossovers to the satellites and 4 $99 12" rat-shack subs. Woo-hoo!!! college dorm living at it's finest!

Fulton Model Js and ARC Ref I. nt, posted on May 5, 2007 at 06:43:34
Norm Reviewer Posts: 31024 Joined: September 6, 2000	a

B&W DM7's, circa 1981, posted on May 5, 2007 at 06:44:31

Feanor
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Posts: 9837
Location: London, Ontario
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Contributor
Since: March 12, 2004

I lived in ignorant bliss with these POS for over twenty years. Sold my Ohm F's to buy them too -- what a mistake that was as I eventually realized :-(

Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config

Re: What Purchase Was Your Biggest Waste of Money?, posted on May 5, 2007 at 06:48:26
Quint Dealer Posts: 3657 Joined: June 21, 2003	My biggest waste of money was getting into the hobby at an ultra level. In the end, it just wasn't worth it--financially and in a hundred other ways. My new headphone rig is, in most ways, better than anything I ever assembled, and worlds cheaper too.

Closely followed by NAD C270, posted on May 5, 2007 at 06:49:18

Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9837
Location: London, Ontario
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Contributor
Since: March 12, 2004

Flabby bass and mid-fi resolution.

Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config

I had good luck with the 2200PE & sold it for a good price 12 years later., posted on May 5, 2007 at 06:57:07
David S. Audiophile Posts: 3552 Location: Mountains of WNC Joined: August 31, 2000	Sold it to a gent who used 2 of them bridged for a pair of Carver Amazing Platinums - he was thrilled to find mine to make up his pair.

Music Hall MMF 2, posted on May 5, 2007 at 07:06:16
Bob Wortman Audiophile Posts: 886 Joined: June 12, 2002	I purchased it because of rave reviews in the audio press and got rid of a Denon SP37F. The MMF was an overpriced piece of junk that was way worse than the Denon. It "only" cost $300 but the sound and workmanship were such that it should have been a $99 Circuit City special.

thanks for the tips, posted on May 5, 2007 at 07:09:47
Kloss	was thinking about there integrates now I will pass;)

Behringer EQ, posted on May 5, 2007 at 07:13:38

E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 37555
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Contributor
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Collecting dust on the shelf.

This might explain why your buyer claimed what he did., posted on May 5, 2007 at 07:35:44

Raiderman
Audiophile

Posts: 2129
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Joined: March 14, 2003

About half way down the article, there is a dire warning about this cartridge and which phono preamps can safely be used with it.

Sorry to hear that you did not get to enjoy this cartridge, as a friend states it is incredible in his system.

FYI, what phono preamp did you use, if you don't mind me asking?

Allaerts Review on 6moons

You're no fun... nt, posted on May 5, 2007 at 07:42:44
clarkjohnsen Reviewer Posts: 26843 Location: Massachusetts Joined: May 5, 2000	c

Re: Yeah, I know what ya mean..., posted on May 5, 2007 at 08:22:32
geoffkait	I'm thinkin' of chucking it all it and getting an iPod.

That MSB-modified Ipod looks interesting, posted on May 5, 2007 at 08:26:21

Quint
Dealer

Posts: 3657
Joined: June 21, 2003

My only problem with the Ipod, even the largest one, is that I can't come anywhere close to getting all my CDs on it--and I like the thought of being able to access ANY disc at ANY time.

BTW, were you being facetious? :)

Yeah, just a stick in the audio mud :) [nt], posted on May 5, 2007 at 08:27:21
Quint Dealer Posts: 3657 Joined: June 21, 2003

Re: That MSB-modified Ipod looks interesting, posted on May 5, 2007 at 08:57:10

geoffkait

"BTW, were you being facetious?"

Who, me? :-)

LOL! I loved mm DM7 MKII ..., posted on May 5, 2007 at 09:14:21

reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13127
Location: CT
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Contributor
Since: January 19, 2010

I've owned 4 pairs. When I tried to trade up I ended up going back. This was back in the early 80s. They are long gone now.

Dean.

Krell KSA-100 ..., posted on May 5, 2007 at 09:15:46
reelsmith. Audiophile Posts: 13127 Location: CT Joined: June 7, 2005 Contributor Since: January 19, 2010	Bought it to replace my Parasound HCA-2200 MKII, which sounded better. Dean.

SACD - players, discs - doh! (nt), posted on May 5, 2007 at 09:44:25
hinduclient Audiophile Posts: 984 Joined: August 14, 2002	.

Yea a big waste for me too, posted on May 5, 2007 at 09:49:11

Don T

Not sure if it was my biggest waste but I sold a CDP I really liked (an Exposure 2010) for one that I thought was pretty good with SACD (Sony 555ES).

After 1 year I had bought 3 SACD, enjoyed my CDs less and to top it all off for some magical reason my vinyl and FM sources sounded worse with that massive CDP in the system. Honest I think it made the rest of my gear sound bad just sitting on the rack turned off - go figure!
Give me rhythm or give me death!

Sota Sapphire - especially considering how it affected my LP purchases! nt, posted on May 5, 2007 at 09:51:44
Don T	Give me rhythm or give me death!

1998 Chevy G3500 cargo van.., posted on May 5, 2007 at 10:03:50

ArdRi

Thing was always in the shop. blew a tranny seal at 40K engine blew up at 98,000 luckily i had an extended warranty but that was $1,500.00 anyway..just a horrific nightmare. As far as Hi-Fi stuff the only even slightly questionable item might be the PS Audio Duet and not because its benefits are in question rather I question weather my equipment and listening room are able to make good enough use of it therefore yield sufficiently perceptible results.

Absolutely lacking in dynamics, posted on May 5, 2007 at 10:05:57

Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9837
Location: London, Ontario
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Contributor
Since: March 12, 2004

Or that was the case when I finally got rid of them at least. I can say for certain whether there was deterioration over 20 years. I drove them with a Phase Linear 400, not the best sounding amp, but it had plenty of power at a measured 250 watts/channel at 8 ohms.

The DM7 MkII's were so "dead" that I actually preferred listening to Paradigm Atoms with a $200 subwoofer.

Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config

wedding cake, posted on May 5, 2007 at 10:08:37
BS64 Audiophile Posts: 2451 Joined: July 17, 2000	just kidding, my wife's pretty cool and our kids are awesome...

Not into multi-channel, eh?, posted on May 5, 2007 at 10:08:47

Feanor
Audiophile

Posts: 9837
Location: London, Ontario
Joined: June 17, 2003
Contributor
Since: March 12, 2004

But I agree if it weren't for that SACD wouldn't be worth it.

Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config

actually; the ones i most expected to be a waste have many times been the most cost effective., posted on May 5, 2007 at 10:15:46

mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2773
Joined: July 4, 2000

a month or so ago i had a friend install some very expensive Oyaide R1 Beryllium outlets, with WPC-XXX outlet covers. over $1500.

it blew my mind with the performance improvement.

6 years ago to humor my dealer i tried the Transparent Opus speaker cable. it was obscenely expensive. i still have it. while very spendy what it does is unique and therefore a good value to me.

5 years ago my friend bought the vdH Colibri cartridge but was afraid to mount it as it was very delicate. he was going to send it back but asked me to try it first to see how it sounded. in the spirit of friendship i tried it. it's likely the finest single piece of audio gear i have yet heard (when everything else in the system is just right. i still have it.

in every case i was very skeptical of the value for the money.

mikel

First wife. nt, posted on May 5, 2007 at 10:31:22
gbeard Reviewer Posts: 646 Location: Indiana Joined: April 21, 2000	nt

Upgrading from a Tabriz-Zi to a SME IV, posted on May 5, 2007 at 11:42:52
ppopp Audiophile Posts: 2994 Location: OR Joined: October 10, 2002	Turns out the Tabriz-Zi did most of what the Series IV was doing on my Gyrodec. Not as clinical either. SME had more range and detail. The Tabriz-Zi could boogie nicely and had a lovely character to it. The Series IV did not.

A '74 BMW Bavaria.., posted on May 5, 2007 at 12:06:01

DaveInVA
Audiophile

Posts: 1544
Location: Danville VA
Joined: June 21, 2001

back when it was almost new. What a piece of crap. Something expensive broke every time you turned the key. That thing came home on the back of a tow truck more times than under its own power. Its how I learned BMW = Big Money Wasted...

Dave

Mine was an '83 BMW 320i, posted on May 5, 2007 at 13:08:41

Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001

I got forced into buying this car because I was dating my wife at the time and I was told her parents wouldn't think highly of me with the car I had. So I used money I had set aside that I was going to buy a Counterpoint amp with to get it, and it was just as you say.

They are the biggest pieces of crap in the world. You know that's why Germany lost WWII. The Panther may have been the best tank in the world when it ran.

But it was never running...

And the crews couldn't fix it...

On my SOB the oil pump kept deciding not to work, and the cam shaft would go all to hell. I couldnt' get anyone to work on it locally except the dealer and since it was due for inspection too I had them do that. The guy wasn't going to pass it because he said the one door was "hard to close". That was the closest I ever came to having my head explode in public. It was literally one thing after another with it the entire time I owned it.

My next car was a brand new 1995 Plymouth Neon. We put 186,000 miles on it in 10 years and it never broke once, ever. I didn't even have to replace a water pump, nothing.

No more German cars for me!

It's all about the music...

Re: Actually..., posted on May 5, 2007 at 13:10:22

geoffkait

I deep sixed a very large Maplenoll/57 Quad system about 7 years ago because it was taking over. Military regulated power supplies for everything including filaments, huge 90 uf oil filled capachitos (the real McCoys, with PCBs heh) from Navy Radar stations for general purpose use, special version Nimbus sub-Hertz platform (w/ 200 lb of ballast) to isolate Maplenoll, 500 feet air tubing, etc., etc.

Re: Mine was an '83 BMW 320i, posted on May 5, 2007 at 13:55:46

DaveInVA
Audiophile

Posts: 1544
Location: Danville VA
Joined: June 21, 2001

Mine had the oil pump croak also. It took out the cam, the distributer bearing and the cam that ran the mechanical fuel pump. Later the head gasket blew also. All kinds of fun stuff.
I drive a '87 Alfa Spider for an everyday car now and it has about 118,000 on it and only recently finally had to replace the water pump. Its never left me stranded ever and no major problems except when a a/c hose broke and all the freon escaped. I just chose to leave it that way as its a convertable anyways. Always passes inspection no problem and gets 33mpg freeway...

Dave

That's a New One......., posted on May 5, 2007 at 14:22:34

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

"About half way down the article, there is a dire warning about this cartridge and which phono preamps can safely be used with it."

The paragraph you pointed to states:

And now for a dire word of warning: your phono stage may well be an Allaerts killer. All of them from the MC1B up have incredibly thin coils. If there is any DC kickback in your phono stage or other funny stuff, it will melt the coils and you are looking at a seriously expensive rebuild. Melt the coils? Yes. They are 20 micron thick pure 24 carat gold. I wouldn't even hold them too close to a hot lamp.

That's a new one..... I was never given such warning from anyone, and never had any problem like that with any other cartridge, with the BRB preamp that I was using for a long-time reference. (The BRB later got knocked off by the Don Allen phono stage with Bogen step-up transformers.)

Besides, the BRB pre's "open" input impedance is 47,000 ohms, and is capacitor coupled. As is the case with most active phono stages. It was shunted by a resistor of several hundred ohms. That alone would have made DC offset taking out a coil very unlikely. The only way this would occur is if the pre's "open" input impedance was relatively low and the input was DC coupled.

Another curious aspect of this is that "thin" coils would result in a higher source impedance, and would likely require a higher input impedance to interface with. The load recommendation for that cartridge was typical for what's recommended for a low-output MC cartridge- 100 ohms. I ultimately ran it at 220 or 330 ohms. (The cartridge I had used silver coils.)

The most-common cause of coil failure in cartridges is electrostatic discharge (ESD) during handling and installation. And one should take the necessary precautions whenever handling a low-output MC cartridge. I always "ground" myself before handling any ESD-sensitive device.

BMW 530i, posted on May 5, 2007 at 14:34:33

nightdoggy

My brother was at the toll booth when he heard a noise and it did not sound good. The head cracked on the straight six, two months after the warranty expired. The cost? How does $6500 dollars sound?!
I also had a 328i and it was nothing special. Overrated and too expensive for everything.

doggy

Re: wedding cake, posted on May 5, 2007 at 14:56:57

Dan Banquer
Manufacturer

Posts: 9461
Joined: November 13, 2002

"just kidding, my wife's pretty cool and our kids are awesome... "

It's either that or sleep with one eye open. :)
d.b.

Re: BMW 530i, posted on May 5, 2007 at 15:01:49

DaveInVA
Audiophile

Posts: 1544
Location: Danville VA
Joined: June 21, 2001

My Bavaria had the six banger also only with dual Solex carbs instead of fuel injection. Of course those Solex carbs were probably the worst carbs ever designed. I found out to late that the early BMW 6's were prone to blown head gaskets, cracked heads etc. Was truly a piece of Sh*t car...

Dave

Hovland HP-100, posted on May 5, 2007 at 15:47:55

Ian Mackenzie
Audiophile

Posts: 1441
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 27, 2002

It was a $6,000 volume control.

So neutral, so transparent that all it did was control volume.....w/o a remote...;-)

Celestion 100 speakers, posted on May 5, 2007 at 17:40:05

vacuous
Audiophile

Posts: 4477
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Joined: August 25, 2000
Contributor
Since: November 7, 2020

The US military should use these speakers to inflict pain on enemy combatants. Searingly bright! My AA review of this speaker is linked below.

not much better than firewood

Re: I agree, posted on May 5, 2007 at 17:56:56

sboez23
Audiophile

Posts: 115
Location: Vancouver
Joined: September 10, 2003

I didn't like the sound from the pair of DM7 Mk2s I had in the early '80s. I bought them used but in mint condition, but sold them within 2 months.

Untight bass, hollow sounding mids, scratchy and detached treble. Apparently the result of impressive research: laser interferometry, space age materials, computer modelled crossover network. The result was not pleasing to my ears.

The '70s, posted on May 5, 2007 at 18:04:43

nightdoggy

had to be the worst time for all of the manufacturers, especially the British ones. I worked at a full service gas station in high school from about '75-'77. I did brake jobs, tuneups, tires etc. The worst cars were the Citroens, Fiats, VW Dashers, Audi 100LS and most of the domestic models. Those included the Ford Pinto, Maverick, Granada and others like the Chrysler Cordoba with the "Lean Burn" 400 cid.
I was one of the lucky ones. I drove a 1967 FIAT 124 wagon with oversized diameter snow tires on the rear. I paid $50 for it and drove it for about two years/75,000 miles. All I did to it was a brake job. Gas was 45 cents a gallon for Sunoco 260 and auto insurance was not required in Rhode Island. I sold it to a friend for $450!
Then I got a '70 Buick GS with a 455 having just under 380 HP and torque in the high fours. The only problem I had with it was that the lack of octane made it ping like crazy under load. I made a profit on that and bought a '76 Regal. It had a big block 350 (5.7) which made a whopping 145 HP in fill smog trim. It was enough for driving around Boston during college. Still no insurance though!

Anything I bought before what I have now. (nt), posted on May 5, 2007 at 18:10:41

JMCIII
Reviewer

Posts: 1519
Location: Vermont
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NT_
John Crossett

____________________________

It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.

Re: Hovland HP-100, posted on May 5, 2007 at 18:34:50

bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003

Damn that sucks!

Wait a second, mine's like that too! Ah crap!!
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher

I guess they've learned a few things since then, posted on May 5, 2007 at 19:09:53

ArdRi

I put a thoroughly merciless 40,000 miles on my 1995 540 six speed manual in the past year now clocking in at 168,600 miles and it has had only normal wear items replaced. It handily outperforms 98% of the cars on the roads today and is an absolute pleasure and joy to drive. Power winds out of that 4.0 ltr V8 with such smooth authority and confidence it is a constant thrill. Becoming intimately acquainted with the maintenance and systems of these cars is very rewarding as is the large worldwide community of friendly enthusiasts.

Re: The '70s, posted on May 5, 2007 at 19:51:05

DaveInVA
Audiophile

Posts: 1544
Location: Danville VA
Joined: June 21, 2001

I drove a '58 Fiat 1100 wagon during college and it held up very well and had well over 200k miles on it when I sold it. One car I had back then that was impossible to kill was a '54 Volvp 444 I had for years. had around 200k when I bought it and was still running good at 310k when I sold it.
I've had several Citroen's and the '72 DS21 Pallas I had wasn't to bad but the Maserati Citroen I had was nearly as bad as the BMW except the parts cost even more. Not all 70s cars were junk. I had a '72 Jensen Interceptor III with the factory mopar 440 and it was a great car all around. the '72 Rover 3500S I had was pretty nice also but that had the equivalent of the Buick 215 V8 in it.

Dave

Re: I guess they've learned a few things since then, posted on May 5, 2007 at 20:25:51

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46277
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

Lovely 540.

I really must have an AWD SUV where I live and after owning two outstanding Toyota 4Runners I wanted something practical but not so bland. And it had to be somewhat fun to drive. My 2002 BMW X5 3.0 has been wonderful! For an SUV it handles amazingly well and it's been completely reliable so far.

I still think Toyota makes the best cars in terms of reliability but why do they have to be boring!

My wife's Honda is starting to fall apart se we're eying maybe a used 330xi awd to replace it. That's what I have in mind anyway. ;-)

Re: thanks for the tips, posted on May 5, 2007 at 20:33:34
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46277 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I bought my Levinson 383 used and never had a reliability issue with it but just felt it was kind of boring. It didn't do anything seriously wrong but the music played through it was never very engaging. The bass was a bit anemic and the midrange was too cool for my taste. Frankly, I liked the Jeff Rowland Concentra II so much better. I had one of those too that I purchased used.

Hmmmmm...., posted on May 5, 2007 at 21:18:31

Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001

Told as a joking caricature, I would agree with that.

My Pass X250 amp could also be compared in that way.

However I think that would do both of them an injustice. It is true the Hovland does not color the signal in any way. However, while it just reveals what's there, it reveals more of what's there than having nothing there does, in my experience.

If I was going to fault it I'd say it's bass is very accurate but it does not have a well defined bottom end. That was resolved when I auditioned Dukes Swarm sub system, as it's addition left nothing wanted anymore, and I got it all without coloration. (and I used to like my share of coloration in my youth)

The Hovland does require careful matching, but it will reward it and it shouldn't be dismissed casually I think.

It's all about the music...

Mail order? [nt], posted on May 6, 2007 at 00:10:23
Wellfed	:-)

Agree..., posted on May 6, 2007 at 01:41:06

kuma
Audiophile

Posts: 10272
Location: IN
Joined: July 8, 2001

Some preamps need careful matching with a power amp to a certain point to realise their full potential, I think.

A Nagra pre, for instance, really doesn't sing till it's mated with their own amp.

Ceraballs (honest!)., posted on May 6, 2007 at 04:11:57

vital ital
Audiophile

Posts: 534
Location: croatia
Joined: January 2, 2004

I thought they were "all that" but boy was i wrong, ISONODES kicked the Cerballs butt, no problem, and compare 20 vs. 100 bucks!

v.i.

Million miles from home.

Seems odd having a German car pasted with the name of an Israeli tank.., posted on May 6, 2007 at 07:13:22
David S. Audiophile Posts: 3552 Location: Mountains of WNC Joined: August 31, 2000	I'd love to know the story behind that one :)

Lemon Cary or mismatched with VTL ?, posted on May 6, 2007 at 07:23:32

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46277
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

I had a couple Cary 500MB's in my system that a friend brought over. Coupled with the Cary SLP-05 tube preamp, the setup was dead quiet and wonderful sounding.

Sounds like something was plain wrong with your system because the Cary 500MB's are very nice (and quiet) monoblocks, in my opinion.

Similar camera situation here, posted on May 6, 2007 at 07:28:39

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46277
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

I bought my wife a small Canon 5 mega pixel digital camera a year ago. I showed her how to charge and swap the AA batteries plus basic camera operation in "program auto" mode. She uses it a lot (but I still have to download the pics to the PC for her).

I on the other hand have a Nikon F100 that is rarely used. It is practically brand new even though I've owned it for several years. Same for my 35-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 Nikon lenses. In hind sight, those were a waste of money because I never use them. I use my Olympus 8 mega pixel digital camera a lot or the tiny Fuji point and shoot 35mm.

Yes on tube "rush" with stock 12AX7... BUT..., posted on May 6, 2007 at 08:11:15

Steve Cortez
Audiophile

Posts: 881
Joined: June 2, 2002

... replace VTL's stock tubes with a pair of low-noise NOS tubes, and when the music starts playing, the VTL 7.5 soars well above almost every other Pre-amp out there.

I had the 7.5 side-by-side with the Halcro DM8 and Boulder 2010 Pre-amp for 3 months (into Boulder Amps). The VTL smoked the Boulder pre - more transparent, more dynamic, less Hi-Fi'ish in every way. And against the Halcro, the 7.5 was far less strident and clinical on 90% of redbook source material, but otherwise they were pretty much neck-and-neck. When music wasn't playing, the Halcro was dead silent, while the VTL wasn't, but during silent passages in the music, you do not hear any tube rush!

Sounds to me like you didn't give the VTL a chance to show you what it can do.

Just MHO :)

Re: BMW 530i, posted on May 6, 2007 at 08:15:57

Vik
Audiophile

Posts: 1135
Location: Rochester, NY
Joined: January 1, 2002

I can't speak to the underpowered 530- that little 6 is just overworked with all the mass of the - in the 3 it worked quite well but the extra heft of the 5 was just asking too much imho.

Should have sprung for the 540/550- the 4.8L v8 is a dream and bulletproof in my experience.

Vik

By the way, even with VTL series 1 machines, you can replace 12AX7 tubes with 12AU7s to reduce gain/tube-rush.[nt], posted on May 6, 2007 at 08:17:34
Steve Cortez Audiophile Posts: 881 Joined: June 2, 2002	.

Merkava=Chariot., posted on May 6, 2007 at 12:20:29

ArdRi

When I was a young child I was up at the local playground and was about to swing across the rungs of the Jungle Gym and as I swung out my foot snagged on one of the step rungs, my hand grip broke and I swung down hitting my head on the steel pipes. I believe I was knocked unconscious but when I opened my eyes I saw three small triangular objects in the sky above me. I can still clearly remember focusing on them and wondering what these things were but being a young child I didn't have a great deal of knowledge so I got up and forgot about them. Perhaps ten years later I was a young man of 20 now out in California. In the course of making new friends I met someone who had with him a book he kept wrapped in a silk cloth called The Keys of Enoch. To a 20 year old mind this seemed a fascinating resource explaining the nature of the Higher planes of existence and their interaction with Earth and Human Beings. Remember now you asked for an explanation,lol! So as I leafed thru this book I saw a diagram of three small triangular objects and I immediately recalled the event described above from my childhood. These objects were called Merkaba here and described as vehicles used by Spiritual Intelligences to enter the material universe when needed. Forward to the present and I live in a State where I see a lot of what are here termed Initial Plates so after considering several words and desiring to employ something with some significance or interest, in my frustration I called out to the Lord for an idea and this word MERKAVA immediately unfolded within my mind. I used the spelling with the letter 'V' because I understand it to be correct. It was only later that I discovered that Israel also uses it for their main battle tank so this was not my reason for choosing it. On a purely mundane level it appears to simply label my Car for what it is, my mode of conveyance but it may also serve as a reminder of Heaven's Glory and the One who rides His Merkava in Eternity.
BMW has opened their books and has been cooperative in compensating any who were used as slave labor during WWII. There is Redemption in this Life and I reject any association anyone would lay upon me with the Nazi regime during WWII and any of their acts or ideologies but I see no reason either to deny myself such an enjoyable ride because the name of the company which built it was part of the German War Machine sixty years ago. I'm sure there are millions of Jewish people who aren't hindered in driving German cars today built by companies which in reality today keep only the Corporate name and Logos which to be fair they used before they were brought into the War efforts. So I hope you are edified with my explanation and the Redemptive powers of Heaven may spread and uplift further.

The Vision

Should that be "male order"? [nt], posted on May 6, 2007 at 15:14:16
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com Reviewer Posts: 10307 Location: Lancashire. Joined: January 21, 2001	nt Best Regards, Chris redmond.

George Foreman grill; squeezes the fat out of your burgers and they taste like cardboard. [nt], posted on May 6, 2007 at 15:19:05
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com Reviewer Posts: 10307 Location: Lancashire. Joined: January 21, 2001	nt Best Regards, Chris redmond.

PL Autocorrelator? declicker? Octave Eq? YOU decide!?, posted on May 6, 2007 at 16:28:50

Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 23221
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002

;-)!

they all killed the sound!

Warmest

Timbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger

And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!

'Still not saluting.'

yes I know - but with 12au7's it did not sound any where, posted on May 6, 2007 at 17:07:32

Shane from AUS
Audiophile

Posts: 1669
Location: Sydney
Joined: December 26, 2000

near as good as the gain stage was designed around the 12ax7 and I tried a lot of them.
I gave it almost 12 mnths with the 7.5, which I think is longer than most. Ergonomically it was superb, and quiet as long as you used less than 28db gain amps. The cary 98P was more musical than the 7.5.
The bass was somewhat soft, but it was the stupid gain structure of having full gain at all times which just grated at my bones, by having to use attentautors and alike.
cj pre amps have 25+ db of gain, but you NEVER get the gain noise issues that the VTL has. Why, correct gai8n structure design in the first place.
I am glad I got rid of it as it seems that series 2 has better bass, has the gain nstage re-designed ( if that is not a admission of a F_c_ up of design in the first place I don't know what is), however it seems to have got cooler in balance, which is not what i want from a pre amp.

Lemon Cary's Abe, I was using the 500MB's with a cary, posted on May 6, 2007 at 17:27:16

Shane from AUS
Audiophile

Posts: 1669
Location: Sydney
Joined: December 26, 2000

98P.
I had got rid of the overpriced/overunderenginnered 7.5 by then and replaced with a mate"s overacheiving immensely musical 98P. Dropped a bundle on that transaction!!

I am sure the 500MB's in the US are fine, however there is a big difference between 120vlt/60hz power in the US and 240vlt/50 hz power as the transformers need to work a LOT HARDER. Cary eventually admitted (after quite a few other complaints from the EU) they screwed up with supplying incorrect spec tranformers. It did not help the the moron of an importer implied that EVERY other piece of my equipment was to blame as well as my wiring - I have seperate spurs feeding the hifi.

The 2nd set of 500MB's were quieter (but they sounded different and lost their original magic that I liked), however the transformers still hummed and the importer was still being a wanker, so I cut my loses and demanded a full refund after 5 months of pure hell, threatening legal action and eventually got a refund.

HI-Fi and music is supposed to be fun and your equipment at this elevated price should work perfectly. pity as I wanted to try the SLP 05, but not with this experience and the JOKE of an importer into Australia who does nt know what customer service is. I will no longer do any business with that guy or any products he imports

Anyway, very happy with my Mac tube amps (which are a lot quieter than the 500MB's) and I know that they will last a lifetime if I keep them that long :)

Fat rulesâ€”you nailed that one..., posted on May 6, 2007 at 20:18:10

Wellfed

;-)

Thank you for the fascinating explanation., posted on May 7, 2007 at 04:52:23
David S. Audiophile Posts: 3552 Location: Mountains of WNC Joined: August 31, 2000	Thank you even more so for the etemology of "merkava." Words that don't have a latin origin aren't immediately apparent to me.

IMHO, even the best 12AU7s have reduced dynamics when compared the best 12AX7s..., posted on May 7, 2007 at 07:27:01
Steve Cortez Audiophile Posts: 881 Joined: June 2, 2002	... IMHO VTL's redesign around the 12AU7s are a big mistake.

Re: yes I know - but with 12au7's it did not sound any where, posted on May 7, 2007 at 16:05:20

quiltzig

I have had a TL 7.5 for several years. It was originally a Mk1 and I had it upgraded to the Mk2. IMHO the improvements were good in every respect. It was slightly quieter (but was never exactly noisy before anyway). It took a few weeks to fully open up, but certainly had dynamics that were equal to or better than the Mk1. The speed and effortlessness across the whole audio band was noticeably better. The bass extension and weight were better, and bass tonality is superb. I am not sure why these negative comments on the TL 7.5 have been posted, as in my experience, this is a superb piece of gear that performs flawlessly, offers the very highest performance, and if partnered up with VTL power amps will present zero issues with gain.

Re: George Foreman grill; squeezes the fat out of your burgers and they taste like cardboard. [nt], posted on May 7, 2007 at 18:02:17

DeeCee
Audiophile

Posts: 769
Joined: July 6, 2001

Yup. Learned my lesson with it... it has to be "regular" (higher fat) meat to cook right.

Lean is terrible on it.

Once you get used to that (the fat cooks out anyway) it actually tastes ok.

- DeeCee

With respect Paul, You are the importer of VTL, so you opinion might be considered biased, posted on May 8, 2007 at 00:55:51

Shane From Aus

The main issue I had with the 7.5 was its total lack of compatibility with any amp over 28db gain. Use any Pass, Krell, cj, Simm, Lamm and the tube noise is intolerable. This would be bad news in any $500 piece of equipment let alone a $US12500 piece.

Use a cj prem amp which has similar total gain and there are ZERO ISSUES with tube noise. There is something fundamentally wrong with the VTL 7.5 gain structure.

VTL clearly indicated that they tested their pre amp against all the top pre amps, therefore it would be an expectation that the 7.5 would be going into systems without VTL 26db gain amps.

If you the distributor or any dealer advised that the 7.5 only worked with amps that had under 28 db gain when used with 89/90 db speakers, I and probably many other customers would not have considered the 7.5. Unfortunately that was never done.

I lost a bucketload of $ on this, hence answering the orginal question.

Second wife, (I should know better)... NT, posted on May 8, 2007 at 04:11:00
Lowrider Audiophile Posts: 1924 Location: Riga Joined: April 30, 2002	... Antonio Melo Ribeiro

Actually, the one DVD-A player I bought: Technics DVD-A10, posted on May 8, 2007 at 06:54:43

Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12435
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002

Over the past few years, I have amassed more than 1500 SACDs but the number of DVD-As is probably under 50. However, I and my friends bought the Technics DVD-A10 players because they were beautifully made and, especially at J&R's closeout price, very affordable. Too bad we have never had much repertoire of interest (to us) in that format and the universal players handle what little there is. Still looks good, though.

Kal

My computer. )MT(, posted on May 8, 2007 at 13:11:25

J. S. Bach
Audiophile

Posts: 9575
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
Since: June 29, 2004

Dave
Later Gator,
Crank up your talking machine, grab a jar of your favorite "kick-back", sit down, relax, and let the good times roll.

Your profile indicate you now use a VPI combo - Please compare., posted on May 9, 2007 at 16:20:49

lochrider
Audiophile

Posts: 493
Location: Southeast Minnesota
Joined: March 15, 2001
Contributor
Since: March 17, 2002

I'm interested in upgrading my turntable/arm and I seek info on other's experience with different brands. Why did you apparently change from the GyroDec to the VPI Scout? How would you compare the differences and similarities? Any regrets?

Thanks.

Ian

Second wife = worst error in judgment I can remember, most costly, too! nt, posted on May 9, 2007 at 16:27:05
lochrider Audiophile Posts: 493 Location: Southeast Minnesota Joined: March 15, 2001 Contributor Since: March 17, 2002	nt

Re: That's a New One......., posted on May 9, 2007 at 19:50:31

throwback
Audiophile

Posts: 762
Location: Colorado
Joined: December 8, 2003

Interesting, Todd. I have an Allaerts MC1B Boron and have used it with several preamps. To use HP's favorite phrase, "I have never quite gotten the measure of this thing." I am still experimenting with load resistance even after two years of ownership, trying to reduce a bit of brightness. I started at 100Ohms and have worked my way down to 60 without much audible effect. Maybe I should be going the other way???

Re: Your profile indicate you now use a VPI combo - Please compare., posted on May 9, 2007 at 21:07:34

George Mann

The GyroDec, when fitted with original steel platter, inverted bearing, and an SME 309 easily betters the Scout.

The 300 series is SME's best arm.

Re: With respect Paul, You are the importer of VTL, so you opinion might be considered biased, posted on May 9, 2007 at 21:46:32

BMH1
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: NSW
Joined: May 9, 2007

I'm a long time (about 15 yrs) owner of VTL equipment, albeit not TL7.5!

I have never experienced the issues Shane has experienced, and have rarely found anything to rival the naturalness of my VTL pre power combo. I have heard the TL7.5 on a number of occasions, and have not heard any of these noise issues that are referred to in this post. Admittedly the TL7.5 sounded its most stunning with VTL power amplification, but what doesn't sound its best when it is with its ideal partner?

Anyway, having looked at some alternatives at various times I am hard pressed to go past VTL offerings. Shane, if you have any more great deals on a 7.5 (seems unlikely), just let me know!

Re: With respect Paul, You are the importer of VTL, so you opinion might be considered biased, posted on May 9, 2007 at 22:36:04

quiltzig

With equal respect Shane, I have owned VTL amps since 1988 (well before I became the agent for them) and have more experience with them than anybody else in Australasia, so why should my opinion be less valid than those of people with less knowledge of the product?
I have also owned a TL 7.5 and S-400 for over 3 years and sold several TL 7.5's to various end users, none of which have any issues at all. They are all thrilled, and enjoying superbly musical sound.

Re: Upgrading from a Tabriz-Zi to a SME IV, posted on May 10, 2007 at 01:05:16

ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2994
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002

The Gyrodec is very much a detailed, 'tell it like it is' deck with good bass extension.

The Scout has a completely different character. It is easier to set-up and forget (no suspendend sub-chassis), has a better stock motor than the stock Gyrodec motor/PSU, and has a really nice (unipivot) tonearm fitted. The Scout has a more authentic delivery to my ears, has a smoother presentation and is more forgiving of less than ideal recordings than the Gyrodec. Great soundstage too. The Gyrodec doesn't disappoint with soundstage either, but the Scout is in a league of it's own in it's price range.
The Gyro would be better suited to a system that needs livening-up. Rega-based arms work well with the Gyrodec.
The Scout is a joy to use and listen to in more ways than any other deck I've listened to in it's price range.
Both benefit from a good phono stage, like all quality decks.

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