Wow, that was fast. DVD-A/CD hybrid now a reality.

Remarkably similar to the hybrid SACD, probably made with the same machinery. It might mean that the same production bottleneck (limited pressing capacity) may exist.

Somebody told that Philips and/or Sony hold some patents regarding bonding DVD and CD layers. Is it true?

Re: Wow, that was fast. DVD-A/CD hybrid now a reality., posted on January 31, 2003 at 02:56:04

Frank

The article states that normal DVD production lines can be used.

It's true that Sony holds some patents regarding the special bonding technique used for sacd hybrids. But it's not an issue because these techniques are not needed for the DVD Audio hybrid if normal machinery can be used.

Frank

I hear there's also an upgrade kit sponsored by 3M ..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 03:34:36

Eric LeRouge
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: France, Paris
Joined: October 7, 2002

... so we can just glue a CD and a DVD together.

This whole thing is crazy: They should simply issue double format packs, with a CD and a DVD in th pack, and that would be it.

Wonder how long this hybrid disc thing will take before it hits the market. Should we expect any major title before 2005?

Best

Eric

Great news! Thanks for sharing it. (nt), posted on January 31, 2003 at 04:41:31
9fold	nt

Re: I hear there's also an upgrade kit sponsored by 3M ..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 10:08:46

NotMe

>They should simply issue double format packs, with a CD and a DVD in th pack, and that would be it.<

That might be more expensive in the long run. And remember, record companies are in the business of selling discs in volume, they want you to buy two copies of an album for playback in two places, rather than giving away two copies in the one pack. But, this is something American Gramaphone have done with their DVD-Audio titles. They bundle a CD and double-sided DVD in each pack, the DVD has DVD-Video content on one side and DVD-A on the other.

>Wonder how long this hybrid disc thing will take before it hits the market.<

At CES there were rumblings of titles being already in the works, according to a story liked to at the bottom of this latest one. Maybe this is why Warner have been a little slow of late, they're waiting on hybrids?

Re: Wow, that was fast. DVD-A/CD hybrid now a reality., posted on January 31, 2003 at 10:10:36

NotMe

>But it's not an issue because these techniques are not needed for the DVD Audio hybrid if normal machinery can be used.<

Consider the impact of this. Any DVD plant can press hybrid DVD-D/CD, rather than needing a whole new production line for SACDs.

I don't see how we could have hybrid products before September..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 10:43:19

Eric LeRouge
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: France, Paris
Joined: October 7, 2002

... since the specs have not even been voted. To me, the HFR story was about some subcontractors trying to gain publicity for their technology / industrial capability vis-a-vis the Majors at Midem, not about the final specs approved and going into production. However, the good news is that these are major names (Sonopress, Bertelsmann, etc.), I think this is somewhat recomforting and adds credibility to the whole concept.

***this is something American Gramaphone have done with their DVD-Audio titles. They bundle a CD and double-sided DVD in each pack, the DVD has DVD-Video content on one side and DVD-A on the other.***

Interesting, I think I would like that. Do you have any product titles/links?

Best

Eric

I own one of those American Grammophone CD/dvd-a packs!, posted on January 31, 2003 at 11:24:41

HiFi Connasewer

Bought it about six months ago. I like listening to those relaxation nature discs (I own four from Laserlight-the best so far) while reading or trying to go to sleep. I saw this title at Best Buy in the dvd-video section in a huge (super-duper?) jewel box. It said it was done by Chip Davis, it was only $15, it had DTS on it, so I bought it. It's very well recorded--the animal sounds are very realistic--but sometimes the music gets rolling too fast for me to relax!

And the disc has a 1 minute long, totally unneccesary & but fun as hell surround demo involving a "comet" racing around your room from speaker to speaker. NEAT!

Mannheim Steamroller (American Grammophone) dvd-audio

Re: I don't see how we could have hybrid products before September..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 11:46:40

Frank

Boz Scaggs 'Dig' was released in a book like cover with a CD and a DVD Audio disc. Great music too !

Frank

http://www.hmv.com/

Re: I don't see how we could have hybrid products before September..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 12:05:38

John Kotches
Reviewer

Posts: 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO Area
Joined: November 16, 1999

Yes, but in the US, the discs were very difficult to retrieve from the booklet, and the sleeve wasn't lined, so my copy picked up scratches fairly rapidly.

Fortunately, it still plays fine.

Regards,
John Kotches

Re: I don't see how we could have hybrid products before September..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 12:35:52

NotMe

>However, the good news is that these are major names (Sonopress, Bertelsmann, etc.), I think this is somewhat recomforting and adds credibility to the whole concept.<

And the fact that the disc was shown at a joint promotional event where all the big players were taking part. I don't think they'd back the demo of a hybrid if there was no chance of it ever happening (or not happening for another ten years)!

>Interesting, I think I would like that. Do you have any product titles/links?<

Adding to the one posted earlier, there's a link below to a review I spotted when reading that news story (why I mentioned it). A bit out of season now, but Christmas comes around so fast...

American Gramaphone DVD-A Review

Re: I don't see how we could have hybrid products before September..., posted on January 31, 2003 at 13:32:21
Eric LeRouge Audiophile Posts: 3060 Location: France, Paris Joined: October 7, 2002	Thanks, I'm not sure I would like the content, but it shows that this can be done for about $25, or less. Perhaps it is an issue for smaller labels, which may not have the rights for a straightforward CD edition of some records (Silverline, for example, the CD edition of some of their records is on another label). Best Eric

Cool, it's in my wishlist now, posted on January 31, 2003 at 13:39:54

Eric LeRouge
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: France, Paris
Joined: October 7, 2002

As in my post above, shows that it can be done for a reasonable amount. The advantages of this packaging are much greater than the disadvantages: single SKU, up-market positioning, and marginal cost of the CD which is thrown in the package + happy customer.
I don't see why the DVD-A forum members don't go for the simple solution.

Funny that it's listed under S, though... I guess Boz is his first name.

Best

Eric

I normally donâ€™t throw cheap shots but this one is irresistible, posted on January 31, 2003 at 14:08:58

LarsB
Audiophile

Posts: 449
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: April 21, 2002

:-)

In fact, I would really like to get some high-rez nature recordings (both in DVD-A and SACD)., posted on January 31, 2003 at 14:32:08

Eric LeRouge
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: France, Paris
Joined: October 7, 2002

Interesting...I'll investigate this one further.
I enjoy nature sounds, I have a lot of the Ryko series on CD, those are the best quality nature recordings I have found so far (there's also a lot of cheap crap in nature recordings, IMO).

I use those for fun, relaxation, but also as reality check for hifi equipment.

Nature sounds are probably built into our genetic heritage, they are the safest psychoacoustic references we have (that's my theory :-)

In fact, I would really like to get some high-rez nature recordings (both in DVD-A and SACD). I think that if we heard thunder, rain, ocean waves, a bird, a dog or a cat in DSD or in 24/92 LPCM, we would know instantly whether it sounds "right". And most likely, our pets would know also.

Are there any 'audiophile' nature recordings?

Best

Eric

Ryko nature series

Thanks for the link. I have one Ryko disc so far......., posted on January 31, 2003 at 16:57:55

HiFi Connasewer

....."Tropical Surf". A very good recording (the guy even lists how he recorded it & with what equipment) and it's very relaxing. But I have a hard time finding them. Laserlight's nature CDs have consistently sounded good and are mixed/produced well. Some really cheesy brands I've tried ($4-$7) just plain stunk: lame music and/or irritating nature sounds (one actually used synthesized animal and wind noises!).

One of my favorite Laserlights is Thunderstorm at Night. It's coolest feature is the haunting electric guitar notes that drift through the storm sounds (they start about 5 minutes into the disc). In the dark or while driving at night its a really neat experience. Though for extreme relaxation, it's too "loud": www.deltamusic.com (check out all the music-including lots of classical-this label deals with!)

My latest vegetable music :) find is by Brian Eno. It's called Music for Airports. Except for one overly-electronic sounding track, this disc really takes you to different places.

Music for Airports at cduniverse.com:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?style=MUSIC&pid=1153775&cart=136372478

Not that I'm complaining, but anybody else wonder why there are so many relaxation recordings available these days?

Review of a Laserlight Digital disc at Amazon.com

"the disc format was not for sale", "does not adhere", posted on January 31, 2003 at 18:55:10

SnaggS
Audiophile

Posts: 1194
Joined: October 4, 2000

"the disc format was not for sale and stressed that it was only a prototype as it does not adhere to any published DVD Forum Standard."

Didn't you guys read it all ? ;p

Daniel.

Re: Thanks for the link. I have one Ryko disc so far......., posted on February 1, 2003 at 14:54:40

Eric LeRouge
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: France, Paris
Joined: October 7, 2002

Hi HFC

***"Tropical Surf".***
This is one of the most difficult to drive in the series (I think it's Hawai). The waves are extremely difficult for my system.
In the series, I would recommend Dawn Chorus (Amazonian Rainforest) as one of the most interesting nature recordings, although in this case I have no idea what the reality sounds like. But it's a fascinating listen, with litterally hundreds of insects and birds waking up and building into a gigantic chorus. Pretty wild, excellent sound.
And also I would recommend the Cape Cod series (Babbling Brook, Shower Rain, etc).

Thunderstorm (not in the same series, but also on Ryko) is one of the best tests for woofers and subwoofers (I could never get the thunder to sound right with less than 30cm woofers, and had the best results on old Celestion and Spendor speakers).

***Laserlight's nature CDs have consistently sounded good and are mixed/produced well.***

I bought several box sets from them, but I find that the recordings are 'dramatized' a bit in some of them. The Ocean one is also very difficult to drive on my system. I enjoyed a Frogs disc (no kidding)a lot for a while, but it used to drive my girlfriend crazy :)

*** Thunderstorm at Night.*** I have it, but I prefer the Ryko one, no special effects, just days and days of patience to obtain the best possible sound.

***My latest vegetable music :) find is by Brian Eno***.
Good grief, you could get lynched for calling Brian Eno 'vegetable music' in some circles. That was one of the first Ambient records (he actually coined the word). He's done a lot of better stuff after that, one of my favourite is The Pearl, with Harold Budd (but beware, it can fry your sub). Music for Airports was published in SACD, I never found it though.

***Not that I'm complaining, but anybody else wonder why there are so many relaxation recordings available these days?***

I don't know what you call relaxation recordings, but the main problem is quality, not quantity. There is a lot of pretty spaced-out Electronica stuff going on in Europe, especially in the Scandinavian countries: if you liked Future Sound of London (Lifeforms), try anything by Mum (eg "Finally we are No One"), Boards of Canada (esp. "Music has the Right to Children"), Biosphere (esp. "Substrata"), and many, many others. It's definitely not trip hop or lounge, it's a lot deeper and continues to build upon the works and ideas of people like Brian Eno.

There's also some pretty tripping stuff in the "glitch" movement (sometimes called "bleep hop"), mainly in Berlin and in Scandinavia. But that's a more experimental route to explore. If you want to test the waters, there's Pole ("2"), and good compilations on Mille Plateaux: Clicks & Cuts (I, and II). But beware, this is no easy listening...

All of that is available on Amazon. If you need more precise suggestions, let me know.

Best

Eric

That was cheap..., posted on February 1, 2003 at 15:01:06

Eric LeRouge
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: France, Paris
Joined: October 7, 2002

:))))

Best

Eric

DVD-Audiobahn

Wow, that was fast. DVD-A/CD hybrid now a reality.

80.160.135.30