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2 weeks of MQA thoughts

71.89.67.116
Posted on January 18, 2017 at 14:05:09
bigshow
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Posts: 472
Location: WI
Joined: December 3, 2012
 Now we have had MQA for almost 2 weeks. What is the listening experience? I am using the partial unfolded into my SimAudio Moon dac, and I think it's great. Way better than I had hoped without an MQA dac. 24/96 or 24/88.2 blows away the regular hi-fi stream.

I am still looking for someone to share their experience through an MQA dac. I saw another forum where a guy was going to follow-up a comparison between a Meridian $299 dac and a much more expensive non MQA Chord dac, but hasn't posted results yet.

Has anybody done anything like that? Inquiring minds want to know.
bigshow

 

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yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 14:19:33
bullethead
 I have the Meridian Explorer 2 and compared to an Auralic Vega.

Meridian Explorer 2 sounds plastic and tinny. Good for $199 which is what it is going for now but no more than that.

I'll be on the lookout for a proper MQA DAC that is not a toy.

 

RE: 2 weeks of MQA thoughts, posted on January 18, 2017 at 15:51:43
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Yes
Meridian Explorer2 MQA dac and Audio-GD Master 7 nos R2R dac Remember the Meridian costs $299 while the Master 7 is $2450. Playing non MQA files clearly demonstrates the superiority of the Master 7
Streaming MQA files from Tidal through both dacs does not change anything
The Master 7 retains its much better sound over the Meridian. You have to remember that Tidals software is doing partial MQA decoding. The Tidal software decodes material up to 96khz while the Meridian decodes material over 96khz which is mainly noise. So most of the improvement of MQA is going to both dacs. I think the additional decoding of the Meridian would be very small if audible at all. I do want to state that the Meridian Explorer2 is an excellent sound dac and well worth the money if you want to experience full MQA decoding

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 17:28:02
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I'll be on the lookout for a proper MQA DAC that is not a toy.

The Mytek Brooklyn DAC supports MQA and it's $2000. I haven't kept up, any other DACs out there TODAY that support MQA that are NOT little 'toys'?



 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 18:22:31
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 It is a real mistake to call the Meridian a toy. In a good system it sounds quite good. Bob Harley gave it an excellent review
Alan

 

Tidal configuration, posted on January 18, 2017 at 20:02:45
srl1
Audiophile

Posts: 1339
Location: Florida Panhandle
Joined: September 2, 2003
 Can't you configure Tidal to "Passthrough MQA" in the streaming settings to that the Meridian can do all of the decoding?

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 21:01:55
bullethead
 You can configure Tidal to passthrough MQA and the MQA DAC will do all of the decoding. That is one of the benefits of the MQA DACs.

I'm not sure how much money the next step up in the Meridian line is which can do the same, but the Explorer 2 was only $199 on Amazon if you want a taste. The Explorer 2 is not something to base the full blown MQA experience on however if you do have an itch for something better.

Overall the Meridian Explorer 2 sounds very good for what it is worth, I bought mine on amazon for $199.

In terms of the Brooklyn DAC I'm not aware of any other DAC that doesn't look like a toy besides a step up in the Meridian line. That one is called the Meridian Ultra DAC.

I read your other post about the Mytec, if you do get it let us know how it goes. There is a lack of MQA DACs right now.

 

RE: Tidal configuration, posted on January 18, 2017 at 21:02:23
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Yes and even using passthrough the Meridian Explorer2 still does not sound as good as the Master 7 using passthrough or not passthrough.

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 21:06:44
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 The Meridian Ultra Dac is $23,000
Alan

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 21:17:57
bullethead
 Merely stating my own experience, you said the same about your Master 7 sounding better.

It sounds quite good, however if one is to take MQA seriously there has to be more options. Particularly in the entry level space ($2-4K).

Perhaps it does take $23,000 and a good system to get good results.

My system is not up to any level to properly listen to a $23,000 DAC and make a decision, I've been properly put in my place.

 

RE: Tidal configuration, posted on January 18, 2017 at 21:31:55
bullethead
 I disagree that the full MQA verified decode doesn't sound good. My hearing is still pretty good and full decode does sound good on albums that stream at 96khz. Using software decode albums don't sound as good compared to the full decode of the Meridian using the hardware mode. You use passthrough and you can see the blue light on the Explorer 2 DAC. With the second white light on for the 96khz albums. There is one album a 2L Nordic album on Tidal that makes all 3 lights light up, that one is very good.

Just my opinion, if interested in MQA please wait for something better than the tiny units traditionally meant for portable listening.

The Meridian Ultra DAC is one, and at the entry level the Mytek Brooklyn is another.

Very frustrating.

 

RE: 2 weeks of MQA thoughts, posted on January 18, 2017 at 22:03:27
jazz1
Audiophile

Posts: 2891
Joined: October 30, 2000
 For me it is not a life changing experience, some title do sound excellent like Vol 1 of the "Grieg/Mozart for 2 pianos" it is very natural sounding and completely free from digitalis, but lots of MQA titles are only average as the original recordings where not great in the first place.
We all know that the key is the recordings not the process.
Some of the Classicsonline hirez files sound better.
But I am glad that it is available and once the catalog get bigger excellent recordings will be available.

 

RE: Tidal configuration, posted on January 18, 2017 at 23:37:14
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 "I disagree that the full MQA verified decode doesn't sound good"
Where did I say that it doesn't sound good? I simply said that under any condition it doesn't sound as good as my Master 7. What is frustrating?
This is new to all of us. We need to listen to each others experiences and go from there. And remember, everything we are saying is subjective opinions. There is no right or wrong here
Alan

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 18, 2017 at 23:44:24
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 "I've been properly put in my place"
Who is putting you in your place? Not me. Tidal has been streaming for 3 weeks now. Way to early to reach any definite conclusions about Tidal.
As I said above we will still be having these discusions a year from now. Hell, we still debate ss vs tubes and analog vs digital. I like what I am hearing from Tidal through both the Meridium and the master 7. That's all I've said
Alan

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 19, 2017 at 04:38:19
bullethead
 When I said I've been properly put in my place I was referring to the $23,000 DAC which is pretty expensive for my wallet, that and the choice between the $200 Explorer 2.

What else is there?

When I mentioned Frustration before, I have two options one $200 the other $23,000.

I picked the $200 one and am not impressed. I'm not about to spend $23,000 to find out if MQA is worth it. I cancelled Tidal, I'll be patient.

This is an interesting topic to me, it could make or break the industry's credibility.

 

This is what I thought, posted on January 19, 2017 at 05:25:36
bigshow
Audiophile

Posts: 472
Location: WI
Joined: December 3, 2012
 My SimAudio Moon dac cost 15 times the Meridian Explorer. It sounds great with Tidal doing the partial decode. I won't be running out to get a new MQA dac. However it is great to have Tidal streaming sound so good without buying new equipment. I can't find a downside. Anything that makes music sound better is pretty great.
bigshow

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 19, 2017 at 06:38:05
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 There is the Mytek Brooklyn dac at $1995. As far as breaking the industries credibility this has happened many times before. When solid state came out many people hated it. Same for CDS. Although many people like SACD it has not really been a commercial success. Same with DSD. The industry is always changing. There is now more money spent on streaming and downloads then sale of CDS. Also for the first time more people are streaming then downloading. The industry has been pushing MQA relentlessly but the general public has never heard of MQA. Just us. We all need to relax and go back to listening and enjoying music.
Alan

 

RE: Tidal configuration, posted on January 19, 2017 at 06:53:55
srl1
Audiophile

Posts: 1339
Location: Florida Panhandle
Joined: September 2, 2003
 Did passthrough vs. mon-passthrough sound different? If so, what were the differences?

 

RE: This is what I thought, posted on January 19, 2017 at 18:40:02
knewton
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Location: Mid-Atlantic/Northeast
Joined: May 18, 2010
 If your moon DAC has multiple digital filter options, did you find one that seemed to work better than the others with Tidal's MQA stream?
_
Ken Newton

 

Many of the NAD components are MQA Certified, posted on January 19, 2017 at 19:42:49
RioTubes
Audiophile

Posts: 1039
Location: So Cal
Joined: February 3, 2005
 They are not traditional dacs (some are digital amps).
I have the C390DD and the difference between Tidal MQA vs Tidal CD or Deezer ranges from imperceptible to easily noticeable. An example of a track where the benefits are readily distinguishable is Merchant's track titled San Andreas Fault on her album named Tigerlily. The organ notes are less veiled with better resonance and decay. There are other albums where I cannot detect any difference.

The components in the NAD lineup that are MQA certified (some require a BluOS adapter that plugs into the modular chassis) include: C390DD, M12, M50, M32 and, although not listed on their site, probably the M2. NAD's amp topology these days is either Hypex's Ncore, UcD or Zetex's DDFA depending on the model.

 

RE: This is what I thought, posted on January 19, 2017 at 20:21:53
bigshow
Audiophile

Posts: 472
Location: WI
Joined: December 3, 2012
 My Moon dac does not have filter options. I do however believe it is an very high quality dac compared to others about the same price.

I did contact SimAudio and asked if it was possible that non MQA Moon dacs would be upgradable and they said it is a hardware upgrade not a software upgrade. They may in the future factory upgrade current dacs to handle MQA but at this time they didn't know which ones.
bigshow

 

Available NOW, posted on January 20, 2017 at 07:41:43
PAR
 As well as the NAD pieces listed in another posting, MQA now lists models from MSB, Brinkmann, Bel Canto etc. ( see link). None of these can be considered as "toys".

Apparently dCS have a firmware version of the full decoder running at their factory but are only considering releasing it once the MQA market is reasonably sizeable. Also bad news for me as new firmware upgrades from them are, reasonably, normally only made available in respect of current models - mine now being out of production :-(.

I wonder how much MQA equipped hardware will be launched at the Munich show in May?

 

RE: Many of the NAD components are MQA Certified, posted on January 20, 2017 at 10:48:11
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 What is MQA certified. Does that mean that Nad dacs will now decode MQA files?
Alan

 

Yes, that is what it means , posted on January 20, 2017 at 11:11:47
RioTubes
Audiophile

Posts: 1039
Location: So Cal
Joined: February 3, 2005
 I don't know if that is universal lingo, but that is how NAD confirms that one of its components can decode MQA files

 

RE: Yes, that is what it means , posted on January 20, 2017 at 13:43:01
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Thanks. It is an unusual way of saying a dac has MQA decoding
Alan

 

Actually, it is a formal process by MQA, posted on January 20, 2017 at 18:06:43
RioTubes
Audiophile

Posts: 1039
Location: So Cal
Joined: February 3, 2005
 a web search ("MQA" "certification") sheds some light. Here's an example from an interview with Bob Stuart (article attached):


"Q12. When will the MQA certification process for third party DAC partners be complete, such as the Mytek Brooklyn?

A12. [Bob Stuart] The quick answer is always as soon as possible. Each certification process depends on the company and its model and how much work we have to do together to get the result that suits us both. We have a process in place and many products going through.

Q48. If my understanding is correct, DAC profiling would imply that the DAC model in question has to be sent from the manufacturer to Meridian for certification. Is this really a viable route from an IP standpoint and a practical way of doing it? Seems like a cumbersome and time consuming procedure in my view.

A48. [Bob Stuart]. This is not a Meridian question, MQA is a separate company (see Q76). The hardware and mobile licensing involves verification (which is normal in this industry) and we also work with our partners to optimise the conversion interface. We think it is viable. Perfection takes a bit longer."

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 24, 2017 at 04:48:45
zacster
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Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 Even other audiophools haven't heard of MQA. I read about it just this past weekend on this thread. My guess is that it is DOA, just another format that matters to too few people to make any headway. It is on a smaller streaming service, requires a monthly upgrade fee, needs special equipment, doesn't work on an iPhone and an add-on DAC costs $2k? Fuhgeddaboudit.

Most people don't even buy decent headphones and just use what came with their phone.

I've played around with some 24/96 on my home system and then always just go back to vinyl. 24/96 does sound good, and I'm sure the other hi-res formats may even be better, but it just isn't convenient.

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 24, 2017 at 07:27:01
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 Most of what you have said here is incorrect. Tidal is not a small streaming service. You can also download MQA files. There is no upgrade fee. It is playable on any dac with 90% of the benefits of MQA. There is no $2000 upgrade fee. In fact the Audioquest Dragon Red and Black is upgrading to MQA decoding with no charge. I suspect you have never heard MQA. If so, why comment on it? By the way, Sprint just invested 200 million dollars into Tidal. Small indeed
Alan

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 25, 2017 at 09:56:29
zacster
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Posts: 2179
Location: NYC
Joined: November 22, 2003
 OK, I'm buying the Dragonfly Black, so we'll see about sound. I have no doubt that 24/96 or better will sound good. I'll sign up for Tidal's free trial when it comes, the DAC is out of stock everywhere.

That doesn't change my opinion that it won't be more than a niche product and will fail in the broader market.

 

RE: yes I have, posted on January 25, 2017 at 10:58:36
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 What some people on this site fail to realize we are all part of a niche industry
The bulk of consumers have never heard of any of the companies we buy equipment from. They know about Bose and that's it Do you really think that Meridian who developed MQA real sells there gear to the general public. So for MQA to succeed it just has to catch on with the bulk of audiophiles. If the general public gets to like it listening to music on there I-Phones, that will be a bonus. A big one but a bonus. SACD is a niche product. DSD and Hi-Rez is a niche product.Enjoy your dragonfly and have fun playing with Tidal. If you like MQA, great. If not, no big deal. It's still all about enjoying music
Alan

 

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