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Concert Hall Sound

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Posted on April 18, 2000 at 17:59:58
Jim C.


 
There's a fascinating article in today's New York Times (nytimes.com) about the evolving science of acoustics, its application to concert hall design, and the resulting clashes with the architectural profession. The focus of the article is the new concert hall in Tokyo, which is evidently a great success.

 

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some results, posted on April 19, 2000 at 06:41:25
roberts@bandstand productions


 
As an Acoustic engineer, most architectural engineers have had a few classes in acoustics, and have the College Knowledge ( They must be right) Attitude. Clashes do result, and the general thinking...is if you are 100 miles from home ...with a briefcase....you are an expert.

Archs. than tend to contract with major companies using a lap-top and 500 dollars worth of software ..and go proudly to the bid, not to mention incompetence at the construction level. If the Archs. use some sound judgement in design, then after the dust settles, and mistakes noted....(usually after poor performance)...then I get called in to "fix" a job that was done at super high expense, and could have been done much better ...had I been consulted from the start...and at much less cost, and faster completion. One case in point , was the Pensacola civic center.

Huge dollars were spent to get the "best" to do the design work...in a feasability study. ( 5 to 6 digits) Then ....(even though my extensive background and proven references were documented) at that time having lived there, I was in my late 20's..(this was a decade and a half ago)I was not concidered for the bid.(Just a local kid...might expose our scheme) Close to 100,000.00 was spent on material, at least that for engineering, another huge amount for study, and low and behold...the material was installed with the absorbtive side glued down.

That place is still deemed the worst sounding hall ever...with a full 6 second decay....( high fidelity ends if decay is longer than 3/4 second)Budget then exausted to repair Properly..a band-aid approach....and consultants booked out. Can't get a decent concert in there, and Hockey games with the RA RA-ing...is what draws ...Plus boxing matches....so much for having classical. The old Theaters have seen a rennesance, due to this (not all bad).

Michael Jackson use to practice there....because if he could sound good there...he could sound good anywhere.(Civic center)

It is time for the manufactures to stop Buddy buddying with the system ..and get real engineers involved. With today's active acoustics, it is a shame that we have to put of with bad halls, and taxpayers money and bond issues going down the "tubes"....as in bose tubes so to speak.........

Take the cost of materials, labor and engineering X25....and that is the profit I see being made. Shame.....

 

Re: some results, posted on April 19, 2000 at 07:23:54
Jorge F


 
Shame Rob isn't here.
According to him, the best halls are Amsterdam, Vienna, Boston, Berlin and NY (if I'm not mistaken).
Seems there's a lot of CHANCE involved. Designers may try hard but the results aren't always good.
Karajan used to speak about it a lot, but there are few good sounding halls he contributed to.




Regards,

Jorge

 

Re: some results(or non-results), posted on April 19, 2000 at 08:26:09
Bill Leebens


 
Acoustics, like being able to truly hear, seems to be something you get or you don't...it's important/interesting (to me, anyway) to note all the similarities between acoustics,engine design and aerodynamics...all have to do with airflow, the performance of airpumps, laminar flow, etc.

One of my favorite concert -hall acoustic horror stories is the Mid-South Coliseum in Memphis( where I used to live, just down I-40 from you, robert)--a typical 60s/70s round, domed municipal multi-purpose hall/ slap-echo nightmare; "updates" and "improvements" were undertaken to improve the sound--amongst which were PAINTING the suspended ceiling, rendering it ineffectual.

DAMN, I love GUMMINT! (for those unattuned to mid-south
dialects, that's the pronunciation of
"government". Thankyuh,thankyuh
verrrmuch.)

Cheers, Bill.

 

BUZZZZ!, posted on April 19, 2000 at 11:32:49
Rob


 
Berlin's Philharmonie isn't regarded to be a good hall and I don't know about Carnegie Hall, but I think it's more the name which provokes the OOOOhs and AAAAhs than the acoustics itself.

In the period of 1985-1988 the Grote Zaal of the Concertgebouw, which is worthwide known for its spectacular acoustics has been renovated due to the at that time deplorable state of the building; it's built in the 19th century.

This was kind of difficult since during this deconstructing and building the acoustics at no costs should be changed and every step in the process was taken under an acoustic magnifying glass, because even stuc and paint can change the acoustics and the ultimate effect was that the acoustics started to be more bright than the warmness the hall used to have which will only be temporary due to the increase of dust in places unreachable for the cleaners.

Good acoustics can't be built, it's usually fate or extreme luck to have them, just like Birmingham's Symphony Hall which is the most recent venue dropping into my mind.

Rob

 

um, England or Alabama? (nt), posted on April 19, 2000 at 14:14:34
Bill Leebens


 
nt

 

Re:I assume it was England..., posted on April 19, 2000 at 14:31:33
Neil E.


 
...since all the stages in Alabama have chicken wire in front to protect the band. :-)

Neil

 

"Harrumph," I say!, posted on April 19, 2000 at 22:33:05
Charlie F.


 
Neil E.,

No, actually, while we do have two decent large classical performance venues within the city limits of the Alabama version of Birmingham (hmmm, maybe Rob was referring to Birmingham, Michigan … I guess not …) — whaddaya know?! — neither of them have chicken wire barriers anywhere! (Although, I must say that the larger space — The Concert Hall at the Birmingham-Jefferson Civic Center — can sound as though there's plenty of it there. On the other hand, the Alys Stephens Performance Center on the University of Alabama at Birmingham campus has quite fine acoustic properties, but, alas!, no chicken wire. Not even any spittoons!

Furthermore, back in my younger, professional musician days (many of which were spent in Alabama), I never once played in an auditorium, club, lounge, hall, or restaurant that featured the chicken wire room tweak. As I recall, in fact, the most famous "chicken wire-equipped" club (sorry, don't recall the name) — the "Country" AND "Western" club in "The Blues Brothers" was located in the Chicagoland vicinity.

Charlie F.

 

Tell 'em, Charlie! I LIKE Birmingham! (nt), posted on April 20, 2000 at 10:06:09
Bill Leebens


 
nt

 

Re: "Harrumph," I say!, posted on April 20, 2000 at 12:16:48
Neil E.


 
Jest pullin on ya all's leg a might. The concert halls in this part of PA have hitching posts out front for the horse and buggies. :-)

Now and then I get the urge to listen to Gamble Rogers. One of his many stories is about playing at the Terminal Tavern, a mythical place in his native Florida. The kind of place that checks for weapons at the door, and if you don't have one, they give you one. He goes on to say that it is a good idea to wear a herringbone suit while on stage. That way, when viewed through the chicken wire, a quarter inch to the left or right and you plumb disappear!
Neil

 

LOL (:~) [nt], posted on April 20, 2000 at 14:25:28
Charlie F.


 
nt

 

Thanks, Bill! (We do have EXCELLENT bar-b-que!) [nt], posted on April 20, 2000 at 14:26:43
Charlie F.


 
nt

 

Not like Memphis, bubba!, posted on April 20, 2000 at 14:47:47
Bill Leebens


 
You oughta see what they think is bbq here in Fla.---SLICED pork on SLICED bread!!! YARGHHH!

...oh, and NO SLAW!!!


Cheers, y'all! Bill.

 

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