Curious what some of you thinkof this performance of Mahler 2

I will say that until I first heard Klemperer, I had an impossible time with Mahler 2nd. I have an EMI of Klemperer which is the same recording discussed in the link, albeit a later pressing.
To be clear I love the performance (even though its been about 5 years since I listened to it, so I can't do detailed comments).

If you have to ask about ERC reissues you can't afford them! (nt), posted on November 18, 2021 at 13:16:43
13th Duke of Wymbourne Audiophile Posts: 2794 Location: Orange Co., Ca Joined: September 19, 2001	nt

I wasn't asking about the ERC reissues, posted on November 18, 2021 at 13:31:45
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	In fact I was very specific in my post that I was not asking about ERC but about the performance on the recording

RE: Curious what some of you thinkof this performance of Mahler 2, posted on November 18, 2021 at 13:51:33
jdaniel@jps.net	Very brief here: I remember being very taken by the unusually "rustic" sound world of the first movt, as performed. I also remember feeling that the finale was a bit straight-forward (hands-off) and Schwartzkopf's (sp) voice not very transporting.

RE: Curious what some of you thinkof this performance of Mahler 2, posted on November 18, 2021 at 20:04:12
Daverz Audiophile Posts: 2104 Location: So. California Joined: September 24, 2002	It's a classic and still one of the top choices for Mahler 2. But why post a URL to this unusual release if you just want opinions on the performance? What is wrong with the EMI/Warner issues, and why is this issue so damn special? I don't care that you don't care about our opinions.

well! If you don't care that I don't care then I will...., posted on November 18, 2021 at 22:16:47

Analog Scott
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just ahve to to tell you. ERC is a small audiophile reissue label. Each reissue is a very limited run. The mastering is done on restored and modified vintage equipment. Their own words....

"Officially Sanctioned Heritage pressings mastered from the original analogue master tapes.
Cut in true monaural and Stereo using 1950's Lyrec / EMI valve tape machines and Ortofon DS522 mono cutter head and Ortofon DS601 Stereo cutter head
Hand-crafted sleeve artwork faithfully recreated using a vintage letterpress procedure.
Released in strictly limited, individually numbered editions with personally signed certificates from the producer. Featuring iconic recordings by the most revered artists across multiple genres."

So that's what makes them "special." I amnot aware of anything in particular being "wrong" with the EMI/Warner reissues. But these are quite different.

A foundational recording for anyone's collection..., posted on November 19, 2021 at 06:13:11
SE	nearly 60 years old now, reviewed as the ne plus ultra by countless professional critics (reviews readily found everywhere on the net). It is "core Klemperer" for fans of the conductor -- the many. Unless you are interested in the ERC remaster, not sure why you included the link.

650 British Pounds for the ERC 2 LP issue - YIKES!:-) n/t, posted on November 19, 2021 at 06:36:01
SE	.

Agreed, unless you want to invite comments on the 'ECR' nonsense..., posted on November 19, 2021 at 08:54:20

Ivan303
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why not just post the above?

It's on QOBUZ with a year 2000 re-mastering and sounds pretty good.

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

RE: Curious what some of you thinkof this performance of Mahler 2, posted on November 19, 2021 at 11:07:59

Mel
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Location: New York City Area
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This has been one of the recognized classic performances on record. It is very well known. It has some authenticity, I suppose, given that Klemperer and Mahler were associates. Yet it is different than Walter's. I like it; I like many others too. That being said, there are so many Mahler 2 recordings that opinions will be all over the place.

So, like it or not, many of us may be interested in whether you invest in a copy here and how you assess it relative to others at your disposal.

The difference being? , posted on November 19, 2021 at 14:46:14
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	same cover, same recording. different commercial release. Are people so easily triggered that it really matters? oh yeah, audiophiles, never mind. My bad

If I do buy the ERC or any other version, posted on November 19, 2021 at 14:48:40
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	I will be sure to post it. IF I did buy the ERC I would not be able to play it for a while though. I am doing a system make over and am going with a digital phono preamp. I am choosing which one at the moment.

I am considering it, posted on November 19, 2021 at 14:50:22
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	But I would not want to invest in it without careful consideration of the performance. And this is one I have not heard. I was just hoping to get some impressions from the gang here first

Guessing if you just showed a CD cover..., posted on November 19, 2021 at 17:07:31
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	or the original vinyl, you wouldn't have to ask people not to comment on the media that you chose to picture in reference to the recording. And further, doubting anyone would think to comment. Just curious, why did you chose to show the 'ECR' re-issue instead of the original vinyl or CD? First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

If you are interested..., posted on November 19, 2021 at 17:16:44

Ivan303
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Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
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The CD version, a Warner's re-issue is available on Amazon is a mere $9.98 and was re-mastered in 2012 by Parlophone.

Might be better than the 2020 remaster on QOBUZ (which I thought sounded quite good).

Heck, I might even spring for it.

OK, not vinyl, but still....

First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

Mahler: Symphony No. 2 'Resurrection' Otto Klemperer

Mea culpa-ish, posted on November 19, 2021 at 17:17:05
13th Duke of Wymbourne Audiophile Posts: 2794 Location: Orange Co., Ca Joined: September 19, 2001	I just went straight to the link and missed your non-ERC discussion trigger warning. So, apologies for doing what you didn't want but I'm with Ivan303 on this, if you don't want to talk about ERC don't link to their website!!

Rustic?, posted on November 19, 2021 at 19:30:54

Ferrous Oxide
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Rus : tic

1. relating to the countryside; rural.
2. made in a plain and simple fashion

I think that every listener would agree that the Mahler 2nd, especially the first movement, is pretty much the opposite of rustic music. I'd say that some of Dvorak's music is definitely rustic.

The Second's allegro maestoso was based on Mahler's earlier single movement tone poem, "Funeral Rites". That's just a title, but still, it's a clue to the non-rustcity of it.

Your remark is just a remark, so I'm not trying to be confrontational. Obviously, you, and anyone, may experience music as it moves you and sounds to you. But, rustic just isn't what I think most people would associate here

Today = $873.92 yikes, posted on November 19, 2021 at 19:37:59
Ferrous Oxide Audiophile Posts: 187 Location: Illinois Joined: June 16, 2021	That's a lot of money. I think vinyl record collectors completely forget that vinyl is actually just plastic. People ridicule plastic leather, plastic furniture, plastic saxophones, plastic wrist watches...plasic anything. Except records, which seem to be regarded as someone organic product of the natural world. I'm not speaking against vinyl records; just observing.

OK Scott - You've Got Me Here - Confused?, posted on November 19, 2021 at 19:51:53

Ferrous Oxide
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Posts: 187
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"same cover, same recording. different commercial release.
Are people so easily triggered that it really matters?
oh yeah, audiophiles, never mind. My bad"

OK. So, it seems you're against spending $873.00 on a 2 record set. But, you're also thinking about actually going ahead and paying $873.00 for analogue vinyl records. Don't get it.

And... You're thinking of paying big bucks for analogue vinyl records... and then shooting that through a digital phono pre-amp?

That makes no sense to me. You're end result will be digital. Why not just buy the CD for $10 and call it a day?

I'm not trying to criticize you. Just reading along and curious about your train of thought and where you're heading.

RE: OK Scott - You've Got Me Here - Confused?, posted on November 19, 2021 at 20:12:15

Analog Scott
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"OK. So, it seems you're against spending $873.00 on a 2 record set. But, you're also thinking about actually going ahead and paying $873.00 for analogue vinyl records. Don't get it."

I have no idea why it seems like I am against spending $873.00 on a two record set. What I said was I was interested in other peoples' opinions specifically on the performance not on their opinions on ERC. Just because I am not interested in other peoples' opinions on ERC doesn't mean that I am for or against their products or the prices. I am familiar with their products and as such not really interested in other peoples' opinions on their products. That is because I feel I have a pretty good handle on what they bring to the table as an audiophile reissue company. OTOH I am not familiar with this particular performance. which is why I AM interested in opinions on the performance specifically. Hopefully that clears up the confusion

"And... You're thinking of paying big bucks for analogue vinyl records... and then shooting that through a digital phono pre-amp?"

Yes

"That makes no sense to me. You're end result will be digital. Why not just buy the CD for $10 and call it a day?"

Because the CD will not give me the sound of euphonic vinyl colorations nor the unique colorations of the ERC cutting or the unique colorations of my Forsell Air Reference TT with my Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge. IMO all of those colorations make for better subjective sound quality. None of which I can get from that CD. My new system is very DSP oriented. Nothing is getting through the signal path without 1 or more A/D-D/A conversions. Iam ofthe opinion that hi res digital is audibly transparentand modern DSP is the next step up in high end audio. So IMO digital phono preamps make perfect sense.

"I'm not trying to criticize you. Just reading along and curious about your train of thought and where you're heading."

No worries. I don't take any of your questions as criticism. And I am quite happy for anyone to challenge and critique any of my ideas on audio. I very much appreciate honest debate on any aspect of audio. I think as long as people can stay on subject and keep their egos out of the equation there is often something to be learned. I am a strong believer in falsifiability. If I am getting something wrong in my way of thinking I'd like to know about it.

Hoepfully my answers have cleared up where I am coming from and what I think.

RE: If you are interested..., posted on November 19, 2021 at 20:13:29
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	certainly worth considering. thanks

I haven't chosen it, posted on November 19, 2021 at 20:18:55

Analog Scott
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Posts: 9933
Joined: January 8, 2002

But I was looking at it and considering it. So I cut and pasted their webpage for reference. I was there, on their webpage looking at it.

Now if you were there, on their webpage looking at a particular release and was interested in opinions on the *performance* would you go to a different webpage to cut and paste a different reference or just the use the one staring you right in the face at the moment you were wondering about thoughts on the performance?

For some crazy reason I didn't think it would be a big deal. A moment in which I forgot the wacko nature of these forums and audiophiles in general. Again, my bad.

No worries, posted on November 19, 2021 at 20:22:38
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	And in reading my response it wasperhaps abit dry and toomuch to the point. I didn't mean it to sound so annoyed. I'm not. I was hoping my interest in the ERC would not derail any potential interesting discussion on the performance itself. Seems to have not worked so well. I guess it was like asking someone to not think of a pink elephant.

Yes, it's a very "unpolished" take. Having imprinted on Solti's CSO, it was quite a shock. , posted on November 19, 2021 at 20:43:29
jdaniel@jps.net	Just don't ask me what "unpolished" and "rustic" means. I'd even add "trudging." Re-listen to Klemp's first mov't at your convenience and you may or may not hear what I heard.

1) hardly anyone respected your wishes, and 2) according to Classics Today, the EMI Groc is the bees knees, posted on November 19, 2021 at 20:46:49
jdaniel@jps.net	at this point I'd just audition the Groc.

RE: 1) hardly anyone respected your wishes, and 2) according to Classics Today, the EMI Groc is the bees knees, posted on November 19, 2021 at 21:15:25
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	If it's the bees knees....hard to say no

RE: I am considering it, posted on November 20, 2021 at 03:21:22

rkw
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Posts: 321
Joined: July 12, 2000

As others have said, it is a well known and well regarded recording. However there is certainly no need to make a blind purchase of the ERC based only on reviews and comments. You can audition the recording on any medium (CD, streaming, LP, even YouTube) and decide for yourself how much you like the performance compared to other Mahler 2 you've known. Then you should have a good idea of whether the ERC will be worth it to you.

View YouTube Video

+1...Date before putting a ring on it!:-) n/t, posted on November 20, 2021 at 05:11:28
SE	.

Some real-time impressions..., posted on November 20, 2021 at 06:03:10

I have the recording playing as I write this. It is a CD, part of the set linked, which includes a 2012 remaster of Sym. #2 (without stating "Parlophone" anywhere as per the link Ivan303 provided). No texts included in this box set.

Excellent instrument separation and soundstage, snarling brass, airy and slightly distant (Kingsway Hall, London). Silent background, no tape hiss at all. Sound is overall on the warm side, with mass violins a touch congested, but not harsh or screechy (a win for a 60 year old recording). The solo vocal part is PERFECT...in place on the stage, proportional voice/orchestra balance and smooth as silk. The choral parts are very physical...similar excellent proportion, balance and soundstage. If there is room for improvement, IMO it will be minimal given the state of this 2012 remaster of an old original source.

This performance is, by turns, extremely intimate and majestic. In my current experience, tipping the sound level a touch lower to draw out detail works better than elevating it to achieve massive climaxes. The contrasts are fully realized, even at a slightly lower volume level (this tames the "shrillness of age factor" as well). This is GREAT Mahler conducting!

Should you ever get the chance to A-B it, please drop a quick comment here...not that I would ever drop the $$$ for the ERC. I do buy from boutiques such as Marston and Mosaic (for Jazz). But, they just don't price at that heavenly level!:-)

Klemperer Mahler Set

I thought about buying that set but, posted on November 20, 2021 at 07:29:26
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	tax brought the total up to $26.00! Thanks for the link. One click shopping. Maybe too convenient

RE: +1...Date before putting a ring on it!:-) n/t, posted on November 20, 2021 at 07:31:56
Analog Scott Audiophile Posts: 9933 Joined: January 8, 2002	I'll be going on this date when I get back home Thursday. I bought the box set.

Thanks for your generous post. , posted on November 21, 2021 at 18:23:45
Mats Gunnars Audiophile Posts: 387 Joined: May 7, 2006	To me, another irresistible box. Can't tell you how many times a post here has brought hours of pleasure and illumination. Surely a most excellent camaraderie. -Mats

Yes I have that record + 18 others of the Mahler 2, posted on November 25, 2021 at 18:07:03

John C. - Aussie
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The quality of this 60 year old effort is remarkable and the artistry deserves its high reputation.

It is one of my favoured music compositions and I rank the conducting of Bertini and Chandler up with the best.

I guess the special audio from vinyl can be heard and valued by some and I was once very paranoid about it and hated digital. And with valid reasons - the DACs of the day were crude and made the music sound harsh and unenjoyable. It has taken decades but tecnology can now process the bits into nice analog. But take no notice of me because I really cannot detect any improvement with hi-rez over 16/44.

Bottom line is what you personally like and want. And the Klemperor Mahler 2 is something worth having in any serious classical collection. Deciding what price to pay is something only really of concern to a personal bank account.

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

Classical Court

Curious what some of you thinkof this performance of Mahler 2

174.72.186.110