The other Petrenko blowing the roof off The Royal Albert Hall....

I always felt that the other Petrenko was THE Petrenko..., posted on November 14, 2021 at 10:02:45
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	while THE Petrenko was just the other Petrenko. First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

Same Here......, posted on November 14, 2021 at 17:15:20
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	Vasily's performances to me have more "intensity" and "focus" than Kirill's........

Oh I agree!... I just started calling him that...., posted on November 14, 2021 at 17:32:08

TWB
Audiophile

Posts: 7408
Location: Long Beach, California
Joined: January 5, 2001

just so there was no confusion between K Petrenko and V Petrenko... Not that there would be regarding their talent which IMHO Vasily is light years ahead of the other... Matter of fact, I'm STILL scratching my head wondering how in the world Kirill ended up where he is.. Of course the BPO has had a history of naming the wrong Music Director through the years, starting with Karajan over Celibidache years ago!

BPO back then , posted on November 15, 2021 at 15:13:11
DrChaos Audiophile Posts: 2063 Location: San Diego Joined: July 13, 2009	>Of course the BPO has had a history of naming the wrong Music Director through the years, starting with Karajan over Celibidache years ago! Karajan in 1950's and early 60's was very good and more interesting than later.

Yes - I like both conductors, posted on November 15, 2021 at 18:49:55
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26477 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	In fact, I would go even further and opine that Karajan, even during his later years, was still a compelling conductor. Unfortunately, DG's multi-microphoning got more and more out of control during this period, although their recent Dolby-Atmos remastering of his 70's Beethoven Symphony set shows that quite a bit can still be salvaged from what I would have called those questionable masters.

IMHO, Karajan as well as Reiner were WAY over-rated...., posted on November 15, 2021 at 18:51:02
TWB Audiophile Posts: 7408 Location: Long Beach, California Joined: January 5, 2001	I have yet to hear a piece conducted by either of them that I felt revealed something new for me or took a direction that was new and different. LOL! Even ol' crazy Dave said of Reiner that his readings were for the most part cold and clinical.... I would concur with that. For me they were both a HUGE bore.....

reiner got the players in shape, posted on November 15, 2021 at 19:18:00

DrChaos
Audiophile

Posts: 2063
Location: San Diego
Joined: July 13, 2009

Like Szell, Reiner got his instrumentalists to play damn well. But yes you're right, it's not usually particularly insightful, nuanced or interesting.

I've been listening to all sorts of creaky Furtwanglers from Youtube---grandeur and sweep, certainly not precision, was the thrust. One thing is always true---it's never *ever* boring. Sometimes my reaction is WTF? to some of his choices, but mostly it's awe.

From what I can hear it's that Carlos Kleiber guy who best commands that combination of stupendous precision with tremendous musical interest, comparing recordings back to back (thanks to streaming) I can immediately hear many of the musically compelling choices that he heard and got his band to do vs the average blandness that most of the rest put out.

"Average blandness" ....agree, posted on November 15, 2021 at 20:09:07
Ferrous Oxide Audiophile Posts: 187 Location: Illinois Joined: June 16, 2021	I agree with those who aren't that impressed with his Living Stereo Beethoven 5th & 7th. but, many, maybe most, regard Reiner's Strauss nonpariel, as was most everything else with thr CSO. I find his Scheherazade to be tops.

Agree, posted on November 15, 2021 at 20:11:59
Ferrous Oxide Audiophile Posts: 187 Location: Illinois Joined: June 16, 2021	His mid 70s DG recordings, when remastered, have greater intensity than his earlier recordings, or his later digital ones.

Reiner's B5 is very interesting, posted on November 16, 2021 at 02:36:59

Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26477
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
Since: February 6, 2012

In the last movement, he seems to be pushing the CSO faster than they can quite manage. I need to listen to his Beethoven Seventh again, since I haven't heard it recently. But his Beethoven 1, 6 and 9 are outstanding IMHO.

His Mahler 4 and DLvdE, Debussy La Mer, Falla El Amor brujo (with Price) and (as you mention) Strauss orchestral blockbusters are all superb. Not to mention several concerto recordings with Janis, Cliburn, Heifetz, et al. And his overall body of work with the CSO is (again in IMHO) superior to that of Solti (who, in any case, did not receive as natural engineering as Reiner did).

RE: reiner got the players in shape, posted on November 16, 2021 at 03:06:14

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

"From what I can hear it's that Carlos Kleiber guy who best commands that combination of stupendous precision with tremendous musical interest, comparing recordings back to back (thanks to streaming) I can immediately hear many of the musically compelling choices that he heard and got his band to do vs the average blandness that most of the rest put out."

Whenever I listen to Carlos Kleiber conduct something, I almost always end up stopping the piece before it's half-finished, and then listen to a different conductor conduct the same piece......

One perspective is that the "revelation" in Beethoven's 5th..., posted on November 16, 2021 at 05:35:20
SE	is the composition itself, and not any particular interpretation. Reiner plays it like a piece of granite, and that (for me) is a terrific place to start. I completely understand that with continuing comparisons and experience that a return to Reiner can appear somewhat plain. The strength and purity of Reiner's approach remains something to behold, however.

Vasily Petrenko and Andris Nelsons are the two conductors..., posted on November 16, 2021 at 05:44:17
SE	I am following most closely these days. If Salonen starts to get active again, I would include him as well.

Yep. -nt, posted on November 16, 2021 at 10:59:08
Jim Treanor Audiophile Posts: 2167 Location: Pacific Northwest Joined: June 1, 2003	. Jim

+1 [nt], posted on November 16, 2021 at 13:02:54
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26477 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

RE: One perspective is that the "revelation" in Beethoven's 5th..., posted on November 16, 2021 at 23:42:21
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	I have to take in Reiner's B5...... This is a work that I generally think is "bulletproof" to interpretation, but maybe he did something special with it. (Aside from the B7, the only Beethoven symphony George Szell did good was with the B5.)

Szell and Beethoven, posted on November 17, 2021 at 05:58:36
pbarach Audiophile Posts: 3307 Location: Ohio Joined: June 22, 2008	Todd stated that Szell's only good Beethoven symphonies were 5 and 7. It's a minority opinion, and also I disagree! His 6, which is NOT what one would expect him to do well, is a warm, beautiful performance. His Eroica is for me one of the best I've heard.

In College, as a Clarinet Major, Szell/Cleve's Pastoral and Daphnes, posted on November 17, 2021 at 11:12:26
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	were Staples. Simply glorious in all respects. And then there is Robert Marcellus on Clarinet. Mozart, Britten Symphonies were also highlights. As far as I was concerned, if Cleveland played it, I wanted to hear it. End of Story!

Hmmm, Competitive Listening! A New catagory. nt, posted on November 17, 2021 at 11:15:08
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10583 Joined: April 12, 2002	/

Well, we know that Todd glories in being a contrarian ;-), posted on November 17, 2021 at 11:42:21

Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 26477
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
Since: February 6, 2012

His post would be somewhat more interesting if he elaborated a bit as to WHY he thought that Szell's only good Beethoven Symphony performances were 5 and 7.

BTW, I like Szell's Eroica too - I have it on an "old" (well. . . 20 years old anyway!) stereo-only SACD (among the first SACD's rolled out by Sony). I think that maybe my favorite recording of the work from that era is the Matacic/CzPO recording, which has been available on a number of labels, both cheap (remember the Parliament label?) and not so cheap.

Ms. CfL enjoys that sport sometimes (and I admit I do too - sometimes!) ;-), posted on November 17, 2021 at 12:12:47
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26477 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	How do you think we ended up with over 80 recordings of the Mahler Fifth? ;-) She finally found one that fulfilled all her requirements though (kind of surprising which one it was):

RE: Szell and Beethoven, posted on November 17, 2021 at 20:16:43

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

I don't like Szell's "Eroica" at all..... Amongst the Cleveland music directors, I like Christoph von Dohnanyi's Telarc release..... Albeit the recording was somewhat "diffuse"...... (I think this was one of the first Telarc LPs that was mastered with 16/44 instead of the original Soundstream format.)

Oddly, the one Cleveland director that I thought did an excellent "Pastoral" was Franz Welser Most...... In my recollections, his read of the second movement, which normally bores me to tears, was one of only few that kept my attention......

Classical Court

The other Petrenko blowing the roof off The Royal Albert Hall....

47.152.232.104