Last Friday a little Washington current flowed in through the NJ turnpike into the big bad apple. The confluence sang of wondrous music and gleamed of much old black vinyl...

We come here to share it all with you ( except the vinyl, that is...)

Bill and Binayak

 hey guys... - dex 13:34:17 04/21/00 (5)
 Re: hey guys... - Binayak Bhattacharyya 15:31:26 04/21/00 (4)
 thanx.... - dex 18:17:48 04/21/00 (2)

...

Show full thread outline!

 hey guys... - dex 13:34:17 04/21/00 (5)
 Re: hey guys... - Binayak Bhattacharyya 15:31:26 04/21/00 (4)
 thanx.... - dex 18:17:48 04/21/00 (2)
 Re: thanx.... - Binayak Bhattacharyya 21:14:36 04/21/00 (1)
 that's exactly.... - dex 05:59:17 04/22/00 (0)
 ..and I can thank Bin ... without him, wud've been asking the same question <nt> - BillG 16:58:44 04/21/00 (0)
 What a thread! - Rob 02:59:17 04/21/00 (0)
 Bin and Bill's Great Musical Adventure - BillG 19:53:15 04/20/00 (21)
 Re: Bin and Bill's Great Musical Adventure - Binayak Bhattacharyya 20:06:45 04/20/00 (20)
 Listening experience Part 1: One for Rob - BillG 20:31:28 04/20/00 (19)
 Re: Listening experience Part 1: One for Rob - Rob 04:07:26 04/21/00 (0)
 Re: Listening experience Part 2 - Binayak Bhattacharyya 20:44:22 04/20/00 (17)
 Listening experience Part 2: One for Bin - BillG 21:21:46 04/20/00 (16)
 The Morning After..Treasure List - Binayak Bhattacharyya 06:39:07 04/21/00 (15)
 Your reviews of these lps may be the acme of this site. - edta 18:22:30 04/21/00 (5)
 Re: Your reviews of these lps may be the acme of this site. - Binayak Bhattacharyya 10:52:33 04/22/00 (2)
 Re: Your reviews of these lps may be the acme of this site. - edta 22:27:05 04/22/00 (1)
 Re: Your reviews of these lps may be the acme of this site. - Binayak Bhattacharyya 10:13:47 04/23/00 (0)
 Re: our responsibility ... - BillG 07:05:18 04/22/00 (1)
 Re: our responsibility ... - edta 22:34:17 04/22/00 (0)
 The Morning After..Treasure List continues... - BillG 09:13:46 04/21/00 (2)
 Thanks, I hate you both very much---ooops...(nt) - patrick S 14:13:26 04/21/00 (0)
 Thanks..... ouch... The pain won't stop <nt> - Rob 11:02:59 04/21/00 (0)
 tying up the listening experiences ... - BillG 08:33:25 04/21/00 (4)
 Re: tying up the listening experiences ... - edta 18:29:46 04/21/00 (3)
 Re: Toscanini's Mozart 40th....Binayak...need your help - BillG 06:55:46 04/22/00 (2)
 Re: Toscanini's Mozart 40th....Binayak...need your help - Binayak Bhattacharyya 10:45:23 04/22/00 (1)
 Thanks! Furtwangler does Mozart...... - edta 19:05:09 04/23/00 (0)
 Re: The Morning After..Treasure List - Rob 06:44:42 04/21/00 (0)

Well, we talked about having this here music-fest, as we only
live about 4 hours apart. Thought it would be nice to time it
to happen during a superduper used classical lp sale put on by
a local Manhattan store, A Classical Record. They were
moving uptown, but first wanted to dump some of there heavy
load into the waiting arms of the chosen.

Of course, two music lovers can't get together without doin'
some listening, so I arrived at Bin's place in Brooklyn
about 9:45pm Friday eve.

Actually...make that 3 music lovers. Binayak's wife, Pavithra,
is also a true-blue, certified, bonafide inmate!

We sat down first to a delicious curry-based dinner, which served
to heat up our musical passions, preparing us to dive headfirst
into our first listening experience....

continued in the next installment...

take it away Bin!

Bill

Probably was the only person in the Lane who hadn't heard him.
I was beginning to think the name had changed to 'Gergiev Lane'.

Actually, hadn't heard him yet for a very practical sort of reason.
Figured, why should I spend 15 bucks on one cd when I've been
getting a whole bunch of vinyl treasures at the Salivating Army
for a buck per... hmmm, lets see...
Should I spend 15 bucks on on disk, or 15 bucks on 15 disks?
No contest, right?

WRONG!

As Bin said, I was awe'd to death!
Actually I had formed some thoughts on what I would hear,
based on discussions I read here...
Gergiev would be:
- very "Russian" sounding (without over-emoting)
- would have a keen ear for orchestral balance, treating
the individual groups as part of a unified whole, not
'showcasing' particular orchestral choirs for effect
- would not over-exaggerate

well... he was and did all that (as I expected).
But he did something which I totally did NOT expect, which
came as a real surprise!
This man must have started life as a singer! This Tchai 5th
sang! In his hands, it was true lyricism! The instruments
were voices, the players DRAWING the sound out of their instru-
ments, where the initial note of a phrase would be 'sung' with
a swelling of the note, oftentimes an imperceptible swelling,
but a swelling nonetheless. This is how a singer attacks notes...
this is the lyrical quality.

This was, without a doubt, the most lyrical Tchai 5th I'd ever
heard. Even in louder and more intense passages he kept this
feeling.

This was incredible, because, for me, the voice is at the
center of all music, it is everything. All music must SING.

The greatest performers, for me, are singers...regardless of
the instrument.

In Gergiev, I heard this more than I'd heard with any other
contemporary conductor. For me he is, without doubt, the most
meaningful conductor alive.

I guess I will have to break down and by some cds now!

Bill

The Mozart 40th has been the bane of several great conductors who forget the great tragedy it represents...and so I spun the Toscanini reading...

And then with the lights down low, the Busch Quartet started playing op 132 and Bill joined us in our silence as those voices of God started to speak...

As Binayak was cueing up the 1st movement of Op 132, I was in the
middle of a conversation with Pavithra and him...

The very instant that I heard the first sound, the first mysterious
chord of the opening movement, I stopped in mid-word. I tried to
finish my sentence, but could not.

The only way I can describe what I felt at the time (this feeling
still haunts me) is that I heard a voice come down ...

Within two chords, I knew that I was witnessing something
extraordinary. In all my years in and around music, in all my
hundreds and hundreds of hours of music making and listening,
I had never had an initial experience such as this!

Honestly, I really felt like I was experiencing something not of
this world. This playing was not that of this or another time...
it was timeless! Their opening to opus 132 was for me a direct
communication with something which we cannot see but of which we
are all a part.

I listened, transfixed, throughout the whole quartet. When I was
able to again take partial control of my mind and attempt to
analyze what I was experiencing, I had these thoughts...

The Busch players were perfectly balanced in every way. I had never
heard a quartet where the individual instruments sounded so much
as one voice. The timbre of the instruments, somehow, amazingly,
matched. The sounds were not those of a violin, viola, and cello,
but as a vocal quartet of perfectly blending sounds.
There was also another totally unique quality, hard to describe.
Throughout the performance, there was this very slight tilt towards
the 1st violin. It was very subtle, almost imperceptible.
For me it produced a magic effect. In a vocal quartet, you know
that, however tight the balance among the voices, the ear will
always tilt a little in favor of the soprano? This was the
affect with the Busch players. The tilt never spoiled the
balance of the parts, but highlighted the vocal quality of this
performance.

Yes...Binayak was right. This group, this performance, was
timeless.

The initial impact was truly spiritual, and the after-effect
will haunt me for a long time to come.

Bill

BTW: yes...I told Binayak, if he ever finds the Busch/late
Beethoven box, buy it for me...don't care about the cost.

Thanks,

Rob

I've always been a fan of Russian musicians and conductors and where Mravinsky usually highlighted the tragedy, Gergiev obviously comes from another tradition, growing up with Furtwangler's recordings of Brahms.

Gergiev was born in 1953, studied piano and conducting in Ordzhonikidze and completed his training at the Leningrad Conservatory where Ilya Musin was his teacher. At the age of 23 he won the first price at the Karajan Orchestral Competition in Berlin and in 1978 he was offered the post of assistant to the artistic director of the Kirov, which was Yuri Temirkanov at the time.

He quickly moved to opera so to speak, and made the Kirov Opera what is is, while recording symphonic pieces with that opera orchestra and this gave him possibilities to experiment and learn things while growing with the orchestra, he could use this experience when conducting other orchestras, like the Rotterdammers, New Yorkers and Wieners.

Rob

Rob

A little background on the Classical Record. They have a collection of over 150,000 in a warehouse on the west side of Manhattan near the docks. Great stuff, but expensive so I usually only buy my 'most coveted' there. SO, this sale was a wonderful opportunity to get some real treasures for a dollar. There were 7500 discs in cardboard boxes on the floor of a garage and a good 30 people were rummaging through them when we arrived. Over the next 4 hours or so, we museed up our clothes, hands as, smiles on our faces, we showed off yet another treasure...among the gems I found..

Furtwangler 1944 Eroica w/ Berlin PO
Furtwangler/Edwin Fisher Brahms PC 2
Furtwangler Bruckner 7,8,9
Furtwangler Beethoven 9th 1951, Bayeruth ( Bill found this, I stole it )
Furtwangler Mozart 40th

Budapest Quartet 1940's mono op. 132 ( cute 10" too )
von Matacec, Czech Phil Eroica

Backhaus/ Scmidt-Isserstedt Beethoven PC 3
Backhaus Beethoven SOnatas 31 & 32
Kempff/ van Kempen Beethoven PC 1
Bruno Moisewich Rach pc 3
Bernstein Shosty Sym 5 ( I NEVER buyy lennie but this was recommended by a respected pal )

Oistrakh Trio Bach
Bruno Walter Beethoven 7th
Rachmaninoff-Stokowski Rach pc 2
Rachmaninoff Kreisler Beethoven Sonatas

Reviews to come along with a comparison of the Busch, Vegh and 1940 Liedenkranz performances of the Beethoven late quartets.

Binayak

The pain....The pain........

You know Bin, I'm not a jealous guy, but there are limits....

Crawling and tingling my nails into the chair like a cat,

Rob

re. the Toscanini Mozart 40th - 1st mvt:
It's always been my favorite symphony, but I had never found a
performance of the 1st movement I liked. There was always
something missing. Remember when I bought Szell's years ago and
excitedly put it on ... but still no magic.

Didn't know what it was, but something in Mozart's writing was must
not coming thru to me...

then in discussions w/Bin and Pavithra we got onto the 40th somehow.
Pavithra then mentioned the Toscanini so we put it on.

I then heard what I had waited for all these years...I finally heard
the opening theme with the magic I was looking for. Here was the
Mozart the ominous. Mozart the foreboding. Mozart of Don Giovanni.
Yes! that's what was missing. The opening theme then took on real
meaning for me...it made perfect sense.
Toscanini's phrasing was longer than others...he connects thru
the theme, joining the phrases and creating this feeling.
Without this joining, the feeling was missing. THAT's what it
needed.

Thanks for that one, Pavithra!

then to Cziffra...
When I was in conservatory, we knew him for his Liszt transcendental
etudes. Don't remember the particulars, but in our pianist circles
he imbued them with a true Magyar feel.

Never heard his Hungarian Rhapsodies until Bin's morning music.
He put more Magyar into those performances than any pianist I'd ever
heard, live, dead, or otherwise...
All his rubati, contrasts, his imitating hammer dulcimers, his
constantly changing rhythms, bending, fits and starts, he nailed
the gypsy feeling. These were no longer mere piano performances.

now ... on to the sale...

Bill

Neither Bin, nor Pavithra, nor myself had any idea of the enormity
and quality of this thing. In all my years I've never seen any-
thing like this ... not even close!

Imagine this ... think of all the recorded performances you've heard
or wanted over the years... maybe some you have on cd but you thought,
wouldn't it be great if this was available on lp... Now visualize
this.

You walk into this warehouse, dirty floors, hundred or so boxes
on the floor, each packed with used lps. You start rummaging
thru these and ... lo and behold! These lps of your dreams begin
to appear right in front of your eyes! And this happens again ...
and again .. and again! And every single frigging one of these
things is ONE BUCK! I was almost jumping out of my skin I was so
excited. Jeeez ... if you see one of these in yer lifetime, you're
lucky!

It was everything Bin said. 7500 gems! We were all a bunch of
happy prospectors, helping each other find our personal gems.
Got a Solomon ... thanks, here's a Furtie. This went on and on!
When the dust settled, think I had about 120 lps!

Here's my addition to Bin's list of gems ...

tons of Horowitz (I'm rabid!)
including original lp transfers from 78s.
have some of these as reissues, and the couple originals
I have heard so far sound a LOT better.

Furtwangler:
Schubert Symphony #9 w/Berliners (2 - Decca & Turnabout)
Tchaikovsky 'Pathetique' - 1937 performance

Dinu Lipatti: Grieg and Schumann concerti

The Art of Josef Lhevinne (incl. his legendary Strauss Blue Danube
Waltz transcription)

Strauss: Elektra (final Scene) w/Beecham/RPO

Heifetz - Korngold Concerto, Lalo Symphonie Espagnole

Robert Casadesus boxed set (incl. a legendary Mozart PC #20, D min)
Mozart PC 20 & 24 - Schnabel
Beethoven PC #4 - Schnabel
Richter - Mozart D minor #20, Prokofieff PC #5
Simon Barere - memorial album

Beethoven: Symphony #7 /Toscanini/NYPO
Beethoven: Archduke Trio - Cortot/Thibaud/Casals
Mozart Quartets K387, k465 - Juilliard Quartet
Puccini: Tosca - Callas, Di Steffano, Gobbi
Beethoven: Piano Concerto #4 - Solomon w/Cluytens/Philharmonia
Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto #1 - Solomon w/Dobrowen/Philharmonia
as a 45rpm set
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas #21 (Walstein), #22, #30 - Solomon as a
45 rpm set

Toscanini set of 1941-42 recordings w/Philadelphia
Casals/Serkin Beethoven set
Mozart solo disk w/Leon Fleisher
Berlioz: Harold in Italy - Beecham/RPO/Primrose
Beethoven: String Quartet Op 132 - Vegh Quartet
William Kapell: Beethoven PC #2, Rachmaninoff Rhapsody on a Theme
by Paganini
Van Beinum - Mahler DLVDE, Songs of a Wayfarer w/Nan Merriman
(Rob's favorite :) )
Van Beinum - assorted
Dennis Brain stuff - Strauss concerti, Mozart concerti, several
albums of chamber works

LOTS of Oistrakh incl lp of Debussy & Ravel Sonatas, Prokofiev
Five Melodies w/Frida Bauer
(BTW: I heard Oistrakh and Bauer when I was at Eastman.
I STILL remember Bauer! She was a musical GIANT)

Kathleen Ferrier stuff
Anna Moffo stuff
Boris Christoff Russian vocal recital
Kirsten Flagstad lieder recitals (Brahms, Wolf/Strauss)
Eleanor Steber Mozart concert w/Bruno Walter

Schubert Winterreise and Schumann Liederkreis Op 39 w/DFD and GM
in their first recording of these works ... done in mid 50s

Verdi: Otello - del Monaco, Tebaldi, Corena

Art of Gerald Moore

Mozart Piano Quartets - Budapest/w Szell
Schoenberg: Transfigured Night; Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on Theme
by Tallis - Stokowski
Bach Brandenburgs w/Busch Chamber Players

then .... the Mengelbergs!
Tchaikovsky: symphony #5 w Berliners rec. 11Jul40
Tchaikovsky: symphony #5 w CO
Brahms: Symphony #4 w/CO rec. 30Nov38
Beethoven: Symph #1, Symph #8 w/CO
Strauss: Death & Transfiguration w/CO (flip is Till Eulenspiegel
w/Krauss/VPO)
Franck: Symphony in D minor w/CO
Beethoven Eroica w/CO
Beethoven #5 w/CO
Strauss: Heldenleben w/NYPO rec. 11-13Dec38
Beethoven: the 9 Symphonies w/CO 39-40
boxed set "Willem Mengelberg live concert recordings"
from performances 1939-1943
including:
Beethoven: Eroica, Egmont Overture
Brahms: Violin Concerto w/Herman Krebbers
Wagner: Tannhauser Overture
Berlioz: Damnation of Faust - 3 excerpts
Bach: Wedding Cantata (w/van der Sluys, soprano)
Suite No 2 in b
Weber: from Oberon, Act 2, Sc 12 "Ozean, du Ungeheuer!"
w/Ruth Horna, soprano
Mozart: Flute Concerto in D, K314 w/Hubert Barwahser
Piano Concerto No 19 in F, K459 w/Willem Andriessen,
the CO pianist
Exultate, Jubilate K165 w/Ria Ginster, soprano
Dvorak: Violin Concerto w/Maria Neuss
Rachmaninoff: Concerto #2 w/Walter Gieseking

one in a lifetime! We didn't even get to go thru all the boxes

getting writer's cramp ;)

Bill

Binayak

thanx for the web page....

I'm still looking forward to Binayak's verdict on the Beethoven Late Quartets. And I'm not meaning to hurry him. I know all too well, that sometimes ratings don't tell everything.

Right now I'm comparing the Richter Appassionata of 1960 to Perahia's. Richter is so dynamic and absolutely enlivening that even my wife on first hearing noted how wonderfully he played(she's not a fan of this music). Still, that 3rd movement seems a bit "pushed", maybe the line is a bit jerky--played at that phenomenal speed, is it a wonder? But is it musically the best, does it convey what I think Beethoven wanted? Not an easy call for me at this time. Right now, I would say it is Richter and Perahia, because of that third movement, even though I realize Perhahia doesn't have that phenomenal spark.

Binayak

I think that Bin also bought another Mozart 40th at the
sale ...forget whose ...

happy hunting!

Bill

yes...you are probably right.... with our classical gorge-fest
we have added a certain amount of weight to our shoulders :)

It will take me awhile to sort these out, clean them up, etc.
With the sheer quantity I will have to approach my listening/
reviewing in a somehow organized fashion.

Right now, I've begun listening to the Mengelbergs (specifically
his Tchaikovsky 5th with the Berlin Philarmonic from a 1940
performance). I sent Rob some thoughts on it ... I will post
my impressions here later this weekend. (I also got another
of his, this time w/the CO, so I will do a comparison).

If you have any that you are curious about, just drop Bin or me
a note or a post, and we will try to put that near the top of
the list. What I really need to do is take a week or two's
vacation to do some serious listening. When you have many things
vying for your time, sometimes it's difficult to squeeze in.

Will also be interested in your Appassionata evals. I also have
the Richter, plus some others, like the 50's version w/Horowitz
(coupled with a Wallstein on RCA...his later one with Columbia
was, unfortunately, the playing of an old man, so has little
interest). Would be glad to kick around Appassionatas w/you
if you like.

happy listening!

Bill

BTW: as my list above shows, I came home w/a Vegh recording of
Beethoven's Op 132 ... am anxious to hear it.
Have you heard the Busch late Beethoven's? The Op 132 was truly
for me a completely unique quartet experience.

The one I bought at the sale was Furtwanglers 40th...

Binayak

The reason I still have'nt written about the Vegh box is that I have not been in a mental frame to listen to the Late Quartets of late. They of all recorded music, demand so much of the listener.

Your observations on the Richter Appasionata are interesting. My personal love for that recording stems from the "shock" and "starkness" Richter brings to the sonata, an emotion I feel would be entirely conconant with Beethoven's intentions. I have not heard the Perahia yet. Another great Richter recording, BTW, is the Mozart D minor with the Warsaw Phil conducted by Stanislaw Wislocki. A real gem!

Binayak

I listened to the Richter Appassionata 3rd movement again today. I believe that some of Beethoven's music was meant to be a challenge to listeners and performers, as well. Perhaps some of his music has yet to see definitive performances. We take the best we have been offered and are thankful!

I'm intrigued by those Budapest recordings Brian has mentioned.

BTW, I bought the Budapest performance Brian was talking about. Great stuff, will write on them soon too. The transfers are great and the artwork superb, they have reproduced the 78 rpm covers and even the CD is a fascimile of the original shellac centre.

Binayak

Now Furtwangler doing Mozart is not something I can imagine. I'm really curious about that one!