Boyce

And that seems to be a venerable recording you have - it seems to have been reissued at least a couple of times, including on CD. I haven't heard Janigro and company in that repertoire, but his other recordings I've heard have been excellent - even including his recording of the Haydn Sturm und Drang Symphonies, where he has the horns in the Symphony No. 48 playing an octave too low throughout! For the Boyce Symphonies, I have the Marriner recording - reliable as usual, but I'm sure that that Janigro recording is nice! I'm actually surprised by how many recordings of these works are by groups which play with sufficient vibrato in the strings! IOW, this is some Baroque repertoire which has not been "taken over" by the HIPsters. ;-)

RE: Great Works - I defy anyone to listen to them and tell me they're not as good as Handel's music ;-), posted on September 19, 2020 at 10:05:13
svisner Audiophile Posts: 1162 Joined: March 30, 2002	Well, on open reel, it's sumptuous. As good as Handel? Tall order, but perhaps, at times.

I had in mind Handel's concerti grossi and opera overtures, posted on September 19, 2020 at 12:30:24

Chris from Lafayette
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I mean, when I listen to Boyce's Symphony No. 5 (with the two trumpets), I think that Handel rarely if ever gets better than that (at least when he uses similar forces). The choral music might be a different story, and I haven't heard any of Boyce's anthems, etc.

And let's not forget the latest "royal occasion" when Boyce's music was played: his Symphony No. 1 (first movement) was used as the opening processional music for the bride and bridegroom when Prince Henry married Meghan Markle a couple of years ago. If that doesn't convince people that Boyce was a worthy composer, I don't know what will! ;-)

View YouTube Video

RE: Boyce, posted on September 19, 2020 at 13:56:21
fstein Audiophile Posts: 2994 Location: fstein Joined: May 18, 2006	My only exposure was years ago to (I believe) a MHS Adrian Leaper-conducted provincial English orchestra with terrible ensemble and tuning. Perhaps I should give Boyce another chance.

RE: I had in mind Handel's concerti grossi and opera overtures, posted on September 19, 2020 at 17:38:38
svisner Audiophile Posts: 1162 Joined: March 30, 2002	Well, his 5th Symphony does rival Handel. I like the recording at the link you posted, but you might really enjoy the I Solisti di Zagreb version to which I am listening.

Yes - I think I would too! [nt] ;-), posted on September 19, 2020 at 18:07:54
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

If a time machine is invented, don't visit the Baroque period., posted on September 20, 2020 at 10:19:59
tinear Audiophile Posts: 65782 Location: Kansas City, KS Joined: April 9, 2006	I'd fear for your sanity ("Who's that maniac screaming 'vibrato!,' whatever that is"?

Tragic that folks have been brainwashed by the group-think forces of the academe!, posted on September 20, 2020 at 11:50:14

Chris from Lafayette
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The HIPsters say stuff like: "Let's present a performance of the music as the composer would have known it! My response is, how arrogant and self-serving!

One Baroque composer I know of (Francesco Geminiani), who in his time was considered a "musical god" (according to BBC's Radio 3) and the equal of Corelli and Handel, wrote: "Vibrato is indispensable in violin playing." Paul Henry Lang used to quote this many times. In addition, another composer, Ludovico Zacconi (who flourished earlier - in the 1600's), said that vibrato "ought always to be used".

But today's academicians in university music departments prefer to ignore this evidence. And now the whole "vibrato bad!" HIP industry, which preys on the inexperience of many of its listeners, has been spreading like a contagion for decades.

If folks here are interested in further, detailed study of this issue (and I mean getting somewhat down in the weeds!), this linked overview by our friend David Hurwitz from Classics Today would be a much better starting point than the "scholarese" tripe one usually finds about the subject in JAMS (Journal of the American Musicological Society - which represents the "party line" orthodoxy of most American and Western European entrenched academics) and the like. Dave's study deals with the later eighteenth-century, rather than the earlier eighteenth-century, but his principles and reasoning are sound IMHO.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100107050941/http://www.classi

Can't find it on QOBUZ..., posted on September 20, 2020 at 11:51:26
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	but it is on TIDAL. And his #5 ain't too shabby, if you like that sort of thing. First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

OK - thanks for taking a look! [nt], posted on September 20, 2020 at 11:56:04
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

Sounded pretty good..., posted on September 20, 2020 at 15:56:39
Ivan303 Audiophile Posts: 48887 Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM Joined: February 26, 2001	Think it was released on Vanguard back in the day. Bet it sounds even better on reel to reel. First they came for the dumb-asses And I did not speak out Because I was not a dumb-ass

Yes, there's a deep state in early music! nt, posted on September 20, 2020 at 18:01:47
tinear Audiophile Posts: 65782 Location: Kansas City, KS Joined: April 9, 2006	d

No time machine needed. Most modern HIP groups I like didn't get the "straight-tone" message. Nt, posted on September 20, 2020 at 18:38:50
jdaniel@jps.net	.

I don't know what world you're living in - it sure ain't the real world [nt] ;-), posted on September 20, 2020 at 19:00:51
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

Very close! [nt] ;-), posted on September 20, 2020 at 19:01:33
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

RE: I don't know what world you're living in - it sure ain't the real world [nt] ;-), posted on September 20, 2020 at 19:17:34
rivervalley817	'it sure ain't the real world' that looks like a consensus reality? dammit! all that experience wasted with regards,

Consensus from whom. . . about what? [nt] ;-), posted on September 20, 2020 at 19:32:31
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

RE: Consensus from whom. . . about what? [nt] ;-), posted on September 20, 2020 at 19:51:45
rivervalley817	consensus about the world apparently ... the real one, you know regards,

Ah! OK! (But from whom?) [nt], posted on September 20, 2020 at 20:39:54
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012

RE: Ah! OK! (But from whom?) [nt], posted on September 20, 2020 at 21:36:12
rivervalley817	that's known only to you but I would assume not the same as jdaniel from your post ... you don't recall telling him he's living in another reality or 'world'? you didn't literally mean world as in 'planet' did you? you're generally not this obtuse

I'll gladly confess to being obtuse sometimes!, posted on September 21, 2020 at 00:52:10
Chris from Lafayette Audiophile Posts: 26432 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: February 17, 2004 Contributor Since: February 6, 2012	You said it was a consensus - I thought maybe the consensus was from the folks on your world. I was just wondering who those folks might be. ;-)

Because...the last time you listened to 20+ HIP groups on a weekly basis was..., posted on September 21, 2020 at 07:04:14
jdaniel@jps.net	when? : ) Too busy not listening to the Beecham Scherezahde?

There's certainly way better stuff to listen to, if that's what you mean, posted on September 21, 2020 at 10:24:28

Chris from Lafayette
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But as I've said before, HIPsters have taken over certain repertoire, such as the Rameau opera suites - in this repertoire, I have (as in "have" - not merely have heard via streaming or on the radio) recordings by the Orchestra by the Eighteenth Century, Musicaeterna, Capella Savaria, Philharmonia Baroque, and the English Baroque Soloists. Hard to believe, isn't it? ;-)

Nevertheless, I spent yesterday listening to Janowski and the PSO doing Strauss's Macbeth and Alpensinfonie, the Beethoven Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Symphonies with the Polish Chamber Philharmonic (Sopot) and Rajski, and the Atterberg Second and Eighth Symphonies with the Gothenburg SO and Jarvi - all in glorious MCh!

BTW, when was the last time you listened to 20+ MCh recordings on a weekly basis? I guess we all have our lacunae! ;-)

RE: Boyce, posted on September 24, 2020 at 10:10:23
Mel Audiophile Posts: 2993 Location: New York City Area Joined: February 21, 2001	I've always enjoyed these played by Marriner, on Argo I think. For an alternative you might try Faerber, Wutternberg as taken from an old Turnabout recording. Nice recording too.

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Boyce

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